Aldnoah.Zero - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[Zoks]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think Slaine would actually make a better leader than Inaho. We've seen that he does have fighting skills, but he's also more in tune to people and he can understand people's emotions better. He's becoming harder thanks to this war, and if he keeps growing, I think he could be a great leader.

Inaho has shown zero leadership qualities. A plastic bag floating in the wind would make a better leader than him. Inaho fits the role of a tactician or an ace. He can lead a platoon at best.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Thess

Marito was the most handsome but his personality took a nosedive since episode 4. I liked his scruffy look.

A scruffy looking guy has to have a very interesting personality for me to take interest. Like Han Solo or something. I mostly prefer kept and clean-shaven with a trace of elegance and intelligence. I also have a thing for green eyes.

I also love Gilzeria's fashion choices in comparison with the rest of his people.

Originally Posted by vieri32

an obedient slave leader one beautiful joke.
Slaine has no charisma, no attitudes of man, live your princessesa by his obsession and nothing more.
Since the first episode he remains very childish fantasizing their fairy tales.
Slaine only serves as a slave, a typical robot that serves only to receive order from others.
and unfortunately more regrettable fanboy Sline suffer from some mental problems

Um, I'm just going to have to say that I disagree. Slaine has indeed grown and he is loyal to the princess, but he is no lovesick puppy. Also, he's grown out of his slave mentality by leaps and bounds as he's now willing to resist and even ridicule Cruhteo, and he doesn't hesitate to put a knife to Saazbaum's throat. He's grown from where he was originally.

I think he could become a great leader as he grows older and becomes his own person.

[DevilHighDxD]

Originally Posted by Ryuga

What's people's beef with Marito now?

Useless, utterly useless and he take up screen time for his no-one-give-a-shit-trama. So I wished he is dead. If Marito isn't stepping into the inside of a Kats for the next battle, than please just kills him already.

[Ryuga]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Useless, utterly useless and he take up screen time for his no-one-give-a-shit-trama. So I wished he is dead.

Eh, I like him 'cause he's working through his trauma, and he's getting psychological help. I feel sorry for him mostly, and don't blame him for not being able to fight. Though I'm confused as to how he managed to try and scuff Trillram earlier on in the series....

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

Useless, utterly useless and he take up screen time for his no-one-give-a-shit-trama. So I wished he is dead.

Well, I actually kinda care for his trauma. I choked up a little at the scene with him and his friend. However, I think we're at the end of his uselessness. If Darzana's forgives him and tells him that her brother would never have blamed him, he'll probably get over it. In fact, I expect him to conquer his PSTD next week and join in the battle.

[yononaka]

So, I saw some disbelief re: how come Marito managed to survive that Tanegashima explosion, but no one has a problem with chunks of the Moon reaching Earth almost instantaneously after the explosion? Marito is one lucky bastard to have survived this superspeed meteor shower (as is the rest of humanity). It's one thing for the field distortion to travel at this speed, but the physical matter either wouldn't get there this fast or would do more than enough damage for the extinction of both the human race and Asseylum's beloved birds.

No wonder Saazbaum carries a serious grudge. After all, his fiancee, who should have had more than enough time to get evacuated in some way by the time the chunks got there, was killed by a writer's error.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Um, I'm just going to have to say that I disagree. Slaine has indeed grown and he is loyal to the princess, but he is no lovesick puppy. Also, he's grown out of his slave mentality by leaps and bounds as he's now willing to resist and even ridicule Cruhteo, and he doesn't hesitate to put a knife to Saazbaum's throat. He's grown from where he was originally.

But he didn't cut that throat, did he? And he may have resisted torture, but in the end he "decided" to tell Crutheo everything. Not even because he was broken, but on a complete whim. For that matter, for all his loyalty, he still gave Saazbaum some intelligence. Free.

I don't think he's changed much since stealing Trillram's gun and then hesitated to pull the trigger. He keeps committing all in to some course of action and then have second thoughts right in the middle of it. Because of his emotions.

Heck, it was the same with Inaho, too. He fights at his side and cooperates... and at the crucial moment where he only needed to cooperate just a little more by answering some simple questions, he shoots at Inaho. Like that was going to get him what he wanted.

I think he could become a great leader as he grows older and becomes his own person.

He can barely lead himself. His decision making is inconsistent at best.

Is he a people person? Maybe. We've only seen him among Martians who despise him for being a Terran, and Terrans who distrust him for being a Martian. Maybe in the right conditions, he could get people to follow him. Because, yes, he's popular, and the writers don't really care about logic or characterization, so anything can happen.


(On a related note: why is Inaho supposed to be a bad leader? He pretty much rose to the occasion. Granted, it's mostly his friends that followed him, but that's something.)




edit: I don't want to give the impression that I hate Slaine. I just think that he's an idiot. He's Forrest Gump minus the luck. Is he a good man? A brave, loyal man? Even a skilled one, in some areas? Yes to all of those. But is he someone I'd want to entrust complex and important decisions to? No. Absolutely not.

It's not necessarily a problem. There are walks of life where it's enough to do what you're told. Maybe he'd be great as the princess' gofer and bodyguard and personal chauffeur - whatever. But I don't see the seeds of greatness in him the ways his fans do.

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by Ryuga

What's people's beef with Marito now?

His storyline isn't progressing at all really and mainly has just served as a backstory that now ties in to Sauzbaum's whole back story and kind of flimsy reasoning for his actions to date. The fact that Rayet gets over her shit faster despite it being more immediate and far more serious in terms of offense and is accepted by the crew again tells me 2 key things. One is that if you're an adult in this show you have to be largely useless and kind of pathetic in the long run and two your sole purpose is to make the teenagers in this show look even more awesome and cool in comparison by having stronger mental fortitude and respect for each other than they do the supposed authority figures that should be mentoring them in some capacity but instead mainly serve as dead weight and anchors on their potential by being largely ineffective, causing more problems than contributing to solutions and being incapable of getting over their shit that happened 15 years ago whatsoever. Aldnoah.Zero skips right over that sort of adults interacting with teenagers in a war time setting thing by having Inaho just be the flat out best and most competent at everything from the get go. He's the one that takes Rayet down and diffuses the situation by himself. He's the one that revives the princess and allows her to rather simply defuse the tension with Rayet with her whole humble humility speech all while the adults just kind of stand there or let their guns just casually get stolen by teenagers like the captain who by the way is an adult and an officer so of course she's going to be the one to let that happen and not one of the trainees. You know who'd never let his gun get casually stolen from him is this show? Inaho that's who.

Nobody has anything to teach him or impart on him in terms of experience, if anything he's the one that would have to teach them and show them the way. What's that captain, you think I'm withholding important information from you? Well I am, I just chose not to tell you because I'm the main character and cooler than you anyway so you just go hold your grudge against that guy and keep reminding him of his issues and serve to help keeping him from ever getting over them cause that's your role in this story to date. You could arguably take out the entire adult cast of this show and their plotlines and possibly even a good chunk of the Deucalion crew and not change a single solitary thing in the long run besides some back story stuff for what they've contributed to date. Hell you could maybe even bring the cast of the show down to strictly Inaho, Slaine, Asseylum, Rayet, Sauzbaum and Cruhteo and really not change all that much that's gone on in the present, though I'd have to think about that in further detail to see if I'm really right about that. It seems possible though off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by Ryuga

Eh, I like him 'cause he's working through his trauma, and he's getting psychological help. I feel sorry for him mostly, and don't blame him for not being able to fight. Though I'm confused as to how he managed to try and scuff Trillram earlier on in the series....

Different script writer, probably different ideas and approach. I feel like the whole Marito trauma story line was probably added a later in the development of the story as he just comes across like a totally different character in the first 3 episodes. He's capable of relating the story of what happened to him in the bar in the first episode perfectly fine without freaking out or anything like that as something of a warning to his comrades that they aren't really ready for an open conflict with the Martians. It's spoken less as someone paralyzed with fear at the situation it presented him where he had to do something he can't forgive himself for (which by the way still doesn't make a whole lot of sense since the tank exploded moments after he jumped off it and his friend was doomed regardless) and more someone who knows what they are dealing with. Still he tries to fight the good fight anyway and fails. Since the new writer took over though things have developed incredibly slowly and the adult characters have just been made to look more and more pathetic, goofy and kind of petty while the teenage characters have been pushed more and more to the forefront as the only ones capable of accomplishing anything revolving around conflict resolution. It'd be nice to see Magbaredge and Marito actually have a meaningful talk about their shit, but nope, gotta impart on her officers the wisdom and importance of being able to find a date and leave those other complicated things up to Inaho and the like.

With the final battle of the cour imminently approaching it's kind of too late now so it looks like we have one of two possibilities, either that whole PTSD storyline gets carried over to the second cour or is resolved quickly as possible next week and Marito makes some sort of heroic sacrifice in the fight. That is if the latter is allowed since it's very possible that sort of thing might get in the way somewhat of making Inaho look even more awesome and I'm not sure we can have that sort of thing. I'm serious too I'm really not sure.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But he didn't cut that throat, did he? And he may have resisted torture, but in the end he "decided" to tell Crutheo everything. Not even because he was broken, but on a complete whim. For that matter, for all his loyalty, he still gave Saazbaum some intelligence. Free.

I don't think he's changed much since stealing Trillram's gun and then hesitated to pull the trigger. He keeps committing all in to some course of action and then have second thoughts right in the middle of it. Because of his emotions.

Heck, it was the same with Inaho, too. He fights at his side and cooperates... and at the crucial moment where he only needed to cooperate just a little more by answering some simple questions, he shoots at Inaho. Like that was going to get him what he wanted.



He can barely lead himself. His decision making is inconsistent at best.

Is he a people person? Maybe. We've only seen him among Martians who despise him for being a Terran, and Terrans who distrust him for being a Martian. Maybe in the right conditions, he could get people to follow him. Because, yes, he's popular, and the writers don't really care about logic or characterization, so anything can happen.


(On a related note: why is Inaho supposed to be a bad leader? He pretty much rose to the occasion. Granted, it's mostly his friends that followed him, but that's something.)

He knew he could never really get Saazbaum. You have change plans when the guy your threatening doesn't even flinch and in fact cuts himself with your weapon just to show his resolve. At that point, you need to realize that you're dealing with a whole other level of crazy, and Slaine had to rethink what he was going to do.

Also, if he killed Saazbaum, the entire castle would have shut down and crashed into the Earth. Slaine meant to threaten, not really kill. And unfortunately, Saaz was just smarter and more resolved then Slaine is.

Slaine also, already knew that Cruhteo wasn't in on it. He said so episodes ago. He however, didn't know who else around Cruhteo was in on it. He basically held out until he knew he couldn't hold on anymore. Knowing he was about to die. He simply let Cruhteo figure it out on his own.

And of course he's still a little insecure. He's just began to grow only a few days ago, and it would take time. But he's on the right track.

Inaho is a good tactician. However, he's a bad people person, and he's not good at communication. He doesn't have the charisma to get people to follow him, and I don't see any potential of that changing. If we can get Slaine among some more people, I think that Slaine could grow into the role.

[Ryuga]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

snip

In defence of Marito, here's what I believe. While Rayet was traumatised and it was more immediate compared to Marito's, it was something that was done to her rather than something she did. Revenge and hatred give her a driving force and Martians are her outlet.

Whereas with Marito, he handled it differently. He had to put down his best friend during a war. It's something he did personally and he couldn't live with what he'd done. So he tried blotting it out and didn't confront his trauma but loads of things keep triggering him. Darzana hates him for killing her brother. He can't deal with the guilt. It's only recently that he's started tackling it head on.

I'd argue Rayet handled it worse. While Marito's been passive, he's never taken his issues out on anyone. Rayet flipped out and endangered people's lives. They'll probably both recover in time for the final fight though.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

He knew he could never really get Saazbaum. You have change plans when the guy your threatening doesn't even flinch and in fact cuts himself with your weapon just to show his resolve. At that point, you need to realize that you're dealing with a whole other level of crazy, and Slaine had to rethink what he was going to do.

Also, if he killed Saazbaum, the entire castle would have shut down and crashed into the Earth. Slaine meant to threaten, not really kill. And unfortunately, Saaz was just smarter and more resolved then Slaine is.

It would probably have just orbited as a hulk, but whatever. Even if it had crashed and killed everyone on board, so what? Slaine isn't ready to die for the cause anymore? Why did he even bother threatening him anyway? Go for the goddamn kill.

Slaine also, already knew that Cruhteo wasn't in on it. He said so episodes ago. He however, didn't know who else around Cruhteo was in on it. He basically held out until he knew he couldn't hold on anymore. Knowing he was about to die. He simply let Cruhteo figure it out on his own.

He thought Crutheo wasn't in on it. But he wasn't sure. And that's why he held out, rather than fear that Crutheo would somehow be overpowered in his own castle if he talked. (Kinda ironic considering what happened, come to think of it.)

And of course he's still a little insecure. He's just began to grow only a few days ago, and it would take time. But he's on the right track.

Inaho is a good tactician. However, he's a bad people person, and he's not good at communication. He doesn't have the charisma to get people to follow him, and I don't see any potential of that changing. If we can get Slaine among some more people, I think that Slaine could grow into the role.

And as I said... His friends followed him. His sister followed him, even though technically he should have followed her. He's not the greatest communicator, but people trust that his plans are good, which is pretty important.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by yononaka

So, I saw some disbelief re: how come Marito managed to survive that Tanegashima explosion, but no one has a problem with chunks of the Moon reaching Earth almost instantaneously after the explosion? Marito is one lucky bastard to have survived this superspeed meteor shower (as is the rest of humanity). It's one thing for the field distortion to travel at this speed, but the physical matter either wouldn't get there this fast or would do more than enough damage for the extinction of both the human race and Asseylum's beloved birds.

No wonder Saazbaum carries a serious grudge. After all, his fiancee, who should have had more than enough time to get evacuated in some way by the time the chunks got there, was killed by a writer's error.

Well as I've argued earlier... it is very possible that the incident with Marito and heaven's fall could actually have an hours worth of time difference.

As for how the chunks arrived quickly. Well it is the "hypergate" that malfunctioned here. Considering how they use this to speed up their transportation you could argue that it ended up speeding the chunks through the space time distortions.

And lastly it's not like they said that the one that dropped to Tanegashima was the whole chunk that got separated from the moon. It is a much smaller chunk that dropped in Tanegashima. Various parts of the world got hit so instead of 1 giant chunk it's a bunch of fragmented chunks.

[germanturkey]

i think its sad they wasted such good character design on saaazzbaumsz' fiancee.

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by Ryuga

In defence of Marito, here's what I believe. While Rayet was traumatised and it was more immediate compared to Marito's, it was something that was done to her rather than something she did. Revenge and hatred give her a driving force and Martians are her outlet.

Whereas with Marito, he handled it differently. He had to put down his best friend during a war. It's something he did personally and he couldn't live with what he'd done. So he tried blotting it out and didn't confront his trauma but loads of things keep triggering him. Darzana hates him for killing her brother. He can't deal with the guilt. It's only recently that he's started tackling it head on.

I'd argue Rayet handled it worse. While Marito's been passive, he's never taken his issues out on anyone. Rayet flipped out and endangered people's lives. They'll probably both recover in time for the final fight though.

Except he didn't, his friend was doomed either way. Either he dies by gunshot with some dignity or dies in an explosion being unable to escape the tank or dies in Heaven's Fall like Sauzbaum's waifu apparently did.

Also yes indeed Rayet handled things far worse for which she's immediately forgiven quickly and succinctly by Asseylum yet for whatever reason Darzana can't even talk meaningfully officer to officer with Marito over something that happened 15 years ago that pretty much wasn't even his fault while they've had time. It basically just illustrates how far less short sighted the teenage characters are allowed to be than the adult ones who are portrayed as dominated by their emotions and personal conflicts to an almost literally crippling degree when it comes to functioning at their jobs. These are the sorts of things that typically you'd think would come from experience and maturity but in this universe it's kind of like the opposite is the case.

I mean granted there's always been an element in mecha anime where adults and politicians kind of fuck things up for the younger generation, but it's rarely so one-sided about it as it's been here where the teenagers are always right and do the right thing while adults can't sort their shit out or accomplish anything to save their lives and are just kind of made to look like petty assholes. Also the Vers Knights, 100% victory rate against the Earth's entire army, 0% victory rate against Inaho and his teenage army. It's really hard not to notice at this stage how generation makes such a difference in this show in terms of how the character is treated both by the course of the plot and by the rest of the cast even compared to your average mecha series. See the thing is a lot of people think this show is really bucking the trends of the genre and offering something completely new, but what it's actually doing is taking very specific tropes of the genre and focusing intently on them at the expense of everything else and thus amplifying their intensity several times over. That's kind of been it's biggest problem to date in terms of how things have developed.

Originally Posted by germanturkey

i think its sad they wasted such good character design on saaazzbaumsz' fiancee.

It's just a standard hime cut, a pretty common design trope for characters of nobility and status. That hairstyle always looks good on any female character for sure though. Don't worry there'll be more instances of it in the future of anime as there have been in the past since it's a very Japanese thing with a very specific and culturally relevant purpose so weep not for dead fiancee.

[Nicaea]

I still don't like Rayet. You could compare it to how Thess dislikes Inaho.

About Rayet vs Marito though: Rayet pretty much flipped because Seylum was able to open up to people and find her own place amongst them, whilst Rayet didn't have that "luxury" (people were already accepting her, she's the one who didn't have the courage to open up). Her problem would be solved if she'd come to the realization that it's ok to open up to others.

Marito needs to come to terms with the fact that it was an unfortunate event, and that takes more time if you were forced to kill your friend (or did you want him to become the alpha man a la H.O.T.D. ?). You can't expect him to console himself by saying that he saved his friend's dignity, adults don't have that luxury. The doctor already mentioned it, but captain Magbaredge's forgiveness

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It would probably have just orbited as a hulk, but whatever. Even if it had crashed and killed everyone on board, so what? Slaine isn't ready to die for the cause anymore? Why did he even bother threatening him anyway? Go for the goddamn kill.

Plans change, Slaine going with the knife was spur of the moment, emotion-driven anyway. And once Saaz grabbed the blade, it was game over. Slaine couldn't wrestle the knife away from him until Sazzbaum let go, and by then the man was already alert and ready for him. Slaine wasn't able to do anything at that point.

And as I said... His friends followed him. His sister followed him, even though technically he should have followed her. He's not the greatest communicator, but people trust that his plans are good, which is pretty important.

Family and friends following you is different from being a good leader in general. Those people have known him for years and understand his weirdness. I doubt that he could get regular people to follow him, or that he would even try. He just doesn't have the drive.

And having good plans isn't all it requires to become a good leader. You have to be able to understand and empathize with your men, you have to show that you care and have what it takes to move them forward. You have to have a drive to want to change things too. Inaho has said several times that he's just in this for survival and to stay alive. I really can't see him taking up and leading a cause.

[MK-95-]

^To be fair, even Humeray imouto seems to acknowledge & is impressed with Inaho. I think he has huge potential in the leadership area, but just needs to learn to be much more sociable.

[germanturkey]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

It's just a standard hime cut, a pretty common design trope for characters of nobility and status. That hairstyle always looks good on any female character for sure though. Don't worry there'll be more instances of it in the future of anime as there have been in the past since it's a very Japanese thing with a very specific and culturally relevant purpose so weep not for dead fiancee.

i guess so. ever since i watched ga rei zero, i've had a soft spot for it. her VA sounded familiar too.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It would probably have just orbited as a hulk, but whatever. Even if it had crashed and killed everyone on board, so what? Slaine isn't ready to die for the cause anymore? Why did he even bother threatening him anyway? Go for the goddamn kill.

He didn't want to kill him anymore after he heard about his reasons. Wasn't it obvious? He was also still injured and obviously in no condition to put up a fight. Do people forget he was nearly beaten to death?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And as I said... His friends followed him. His sister followed him, even though technically he should have followed her. He's not the greatest communicator, but people trust that his plans are good, which is pretty important.

People that care about him and know him or people who see him as ally because they are on the same side as Darzana. Slaine convinced the Princess to fall for Earth, granting Terrans their greatest asset (and back then, he was so different, he was confident and very charming, he denied her defeatism nature and faced her boldly. Those years with Cruhteo must have broken him a bit). That wasn't Inaho's doing, it was all Slaine's stories. Slaine moved a racist into an epiphany for his loyalty and actions. Someone who despised him. When Inaho actually gets the glowing admiration and change of heart of someone who absolutely hates him, call me. The only other who accomplished this is Asseylum.

Slaine's problem is that he lived for years under Cruhteo's abuse probably because when he was young, he wasn't shy or timid or afraid to speak up for himself. He's recently recovering.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Family and friends following you is different from being a good leader in general. Those people have known him for years and understand his weirdness. I doubt that he could get regular people to follow him, or that he would even try. He just doesn't have the drive.

And having good plans isn't all it requires to become a good leader. You have to be able to understand and empathize with your men, you have to show that you care and have what it takes to move them forward. You have to have a drive to want to change things too. Inaho has said several times that he's just in this for survival and to stay alive. I really can't see him taking up and leading a cause.

now i have to interfere here, indeed there are leaders who can empathize with his men, but there are also leader isn't fit into that type, empathize is not the only thing there are that make up leadership, does Hitler show empathize with his men, most likely not, was a a great leader ? yes he is. the concept of empathize and employee care only rose recently with business concept, and even in business there are also many types of leader. Being a people person is a good way to lead to a leader, but by no mean they are the only way to become one, see Shouko from VVV ?? was she a people person?? yes. Was she a great leader ??? no. Motivation also comes from hundred form, don't think just being able to feel people heart is enough. It's hard to judge whether Inaho or Slaine is a better leader, but at this point, with what we have seen, Inaho have more capabilities to functioned as one compare to Slaine.