Episode 64 discussion

[monir]

If you are asking about my surmise from reading Peare, I will quote Peare..

Ok, this is my question. Why couldn't he have finished it by doing a similar thing as in his last fight. He was standing closer to the wall than her and thus if he ran forward very fast with his head sticking out he could have forced Temari to smash her head on the wall he had been standing near while not getting near a wall himself. I'm sure this would have worked before his chakra ran out(remember he said ten second left after they had walked towards each other).

If you are asking about my personal opinion, well as Peare mentioned, in the last fight Shika's shadow-bind makes the opponent totally vulnerable. The trick is to get them into that shadow-bind and that is where all that limitations come into the picture (as you said, how much the shadow can be stretched). Once he traps them into that bind, he can do anything with his opponent using himself as the medium in the window of that four minutes. He doesnt need to stretch his shadow to its limitation. Shika is way too smart for that.^^

[OhJustSomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

What makes you think that?

Um, because once he has them bound and they can't move any more, he can reconnect the shadows ANY way he wants. So instead of taking the circuituous path underneath the tunnel, etc, he can just walk a few steps forward, keep part of the shadow connected disconnected one part and just have it be a straight line. This doesn't release Temari, and since he does it all with his mind, he isn't moving or anything.

[GreyArea]

Originally Posted by monir

If you are asking about my surmise from reading Peare, I will quote Peare..If you are asking about my personal opinion, well as Peare mentioned, in the last fight Shika's shadow-bind makes the opponent totally vulnerable. The trick is to get them into that shadow-bind and that is where all that limitations come into the picture (as you said, how much the shadow can be stretched). Once he traps them into that bind, he can do anything with his opponent using himself as the medium in the window of that four minutes. He doesnt need to stretch his shadow to its limitation. Shika is way too smart for that.^^

All very good, but he couldnt have made Temari run into the wall, because his shadow wouldnt stretch that far, and remember, she will mimick his every move, so he cant just turn around and follow her or anything.

edit: he also didnt have enough chakra to do something like that.

[monir]

valid point, but here is a hypothetical scenario that Shika easily may have thought of. Remember he said, he thought of 200 moves to finish the fight with Temari after he got her into his shadow-bind.

Shika runs toward the wall in the 10 seconds of time he has left. Temari's body follows involuntarily. Shika releases her from his shadow bind as he nears the edge of the wall and brakes to reduce his momentum. Temari cannot do that because she has no control over her body until Shika releases her from the bind in the edge of the wall. As she regains control over her body, it is too late. The momentum of her body takes her to meet the wall head on and sustains serious injury while Shika escapes with minor or no injury thanks to his early effort to reduce his speed.

What do you say about that Grey?

edit: I used OhJustSomeRandomGuy's idea which releases Shika from that little handicap..^^

[GreyArea]

Well, thats the problem there, she wouldnt reach the wall, because his shadow wont stretch far enough. If he wants to make Temari run into the wall, he has to run himself in the direction he facing, which is away from the wall Temari will hit, and his shadow bind would be out of range well before she hit the wall, because he would end up so far in the other direction.

Also, if he prepared himself to slow down before hitting the wall, she would also be doing that, as everything he does, his captive also does.

Regardless, it simply wouldnt work.

[Dryad]

Grey is right there. The only Shika could make Temari hit the wall would be that he has more distance between him and the wall than Temari does just like he did to knock Kin.

[aarwin]

I downloaded the new naruto episode 64 from anbu, but the only thing is i cant play it in real player, it wont play sound or video, it wont open in windows media player, not sound or video, and divx only plays the sound. Any suggestions????

[GreyArea]

Originally Posted by aarwin

I downloaded the new naruto episode 64 from anbu, but the only thing is i cant play it in real player, it wont play sound or video, it wont open in windows media player, not sound or video, and divx only plays the sound. Any suggestions????

1. post in the right forum (you want the Playback Help forum)

2. you need the xvid codec, then it will playback in Windows Media Player just dandy

[monir]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

Well, thats the problem there, she wouldnt reach the wall, because his shadow wont stretch far enough.

Grey, read OhJustSomeRandomGuy post.

If he wants to make Temari run into the wall, he has to run himself in the direction he facing, which is away from the wall Temari will hit, and his shadow bind would be out of range well before she hit the wall, because he would end up so far in the other direction.

It makes sense but has nothing to do with my comment. This could be his one of his 200 moves to finish her off. If you ask how he will accomplish that without going over the shadow limitation, well again read OhJustSomeRandomGuy post.

Also, if he prepared himself to slow down before hitting the wall, she would also be doing that, as everything he does, his captive also does.

You may have missed this part in my previous post..Quoting myself

Shika releases her from his shadow bind as he nears the edge of the wall and brakes to reduce his momentum

Regardless, it simply wouldnt work.

it works in my mind..

[GreyArea]

I was taking that into account, but it still wont work. The use of the hole is irrelevant.

Consider where Shika was standing, to make Temari move towards the closest wall (which is behind Shika). There is a shadow cast from the sun to some distance towards Temari, but only just enough to catch her (ignoring the hole, it makes no difference to this suggestion).

If Shika runs towards Temari, she runs towards him (and consequently the wall right behind him). Now, here's the problem, Shika runs out of the shadowed area into the light, and Temari runs towards the shade, when Shika leaves the shade his kage mane shadow length gets smaller and smaller until he and Temari pass each other, and at this point the shadow continues to grow (until Temari reaches the shade, then it will grow at half the rate).

Now, seeing as he will pass Temari not in the shade, but in the light, the maximum length of his shadow bind will be passed before she gets close enough to the wall do knock herself out. Therefore she will be freed.

[Hunter]

Why make things so complicated?
Temari doesn't have a kunai's pocket on her cook like Shika.
He just have to take one of his kunai and launch it into her head.

And blam she's dead

[OhJustSomeRandomGuy]

He can drop her in the the hole then...that's all the shadow he needs. Then he can follow after, pop out of the dirt, and voila. Headbanger's Ball.

He can also just bash her head into the fan, or just have her pick it up and smack herself in the face with it a whole bunch. Point is he could have done it...but it's just not his style. This ending to the fight fits SO much better. So it's all essentially moot.

[Kakashi-sensi]

Originally Posted by OhJustSomeRandomGuy

He can drop her in the the hole then...that's all the shadow he needs. Then he can follow after, pop out of the dirt, and voila. Headbanger's Ball.

He can also just bash her head into the fan, or just have her pick it up and smack herself in the face with it a whole bunch. Point is he could have done it...but it's just not his style. This ending to the fight fits SO much better. So it's all essentially moot.

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[Peare]

Originally Posted by Dryad

Grey is right there. The only Shika could make Temari hit the wall would be that he has more distance between him and the wall than Temari does just like he did to knock Kin.

He did have more distance. Watch the video.

The length argument is the only valid one. However, the shadow would only disconnect right as soon as she was right near the wall(note that is where he is when he captures her). I think he could jump forward into a roll just as soon as his shadow will fail. Temari won't be able to stop the momentum of her body and thus as soon as she has control she will be diving head first into the wall while Shika rolls away unharmed.

Although, I like the kunai argument as well. Lol

[monir]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

I was taking that into account, but it still wont work. The use of the hole is irrelevant.

Consider where Shika was standing, to make Temari move towards the closest wall (which is behind Shika). There is a shadow cast from the sun to some distance towards Temari, but only just enough to catch her (ignoring the hole, it makes no difference to this suggestion).

If Shika runs towards Temari, she runs towards him (and consequently the wall right behind him). Now, here's the problem, Shika runs out of the shadowed area into the light, and Temari runs towards the shade, when Shika leaves the shade his kage mane shadow length gets smaller and smaller until he and Temari pass each other, and at this point the shadow continues to grow (until Temari reaches the shade, then it will grow at half the rate).

Now, seeing as he will pass Temari not in the shade, but in the light, the maximum length of his shadow bind will be passed before she gets close enough to the wall do knock herself out. Therefore she will be freed.

Nice!! I perfectly can see what you are saying. Now, I also can see some of the misconception from the begining of our argument. As you are saying, Shika needs to reach the other side of the wall for Temari to hit the wall. Why? You forget, there is a wall on the right and assuming a wall on the left since the arena is a round one. Now take it from the anime as Shika and Temari were facing each other in the end of the episode with a little gap between them. Shika doesnt need the aid of the shadow of the wall anymore to keep a grip on Temari. He can now use his own cast shadow to keep her in the bind. Time to set up our next scene. Shika turns right, Temari turns right. Rest is said in my previous post. Can the theory work now? That's what I was aiming for from the begining and I realize I wasnt clear on that fact.

Did you notice something Grey? Our debate sparked some interest for this episode-discussion once again. I surely thought this thread was dead before our argument begun.

Originally Posted by hunter

Why make things so complicated?
Temari doesn't have a kunai's pocket on her cook like Shika.
He just have to take one of his kunai and launch it into her head.

And blam she's dead

hehe..simplicity is the best..whole point of our argument was to see if one of the possiblity Shika thought of could have been "shika runs her to a wall". I am saying he can, Grey is saying he cant. hehe..and we havent reached a conclusion yet to our disagreement.

[GreyArea]

Hehe, Yay us

Seriously though, he could have thrown a kunai into her head, or made her pick up the fan and clobber herself (although this would have been complicated as he only moves his own body, an dwouldnt have very much grasp of whether she was picking up the fan etc).

I was thinking something similar to this in his fight vs Kin. Instead of throwing a shuriken from his pouch at her, why didnt he pull out those needles in his arm and chuck them into her eyes? Et viola, one easy win :P

I suppose he doesnt really want to kill his opponent unnecessarily, and would preffer to out wit them.

Originally Posted by monir

Time to set up our next scene. Shika turns right, Temari turns right. Rest is said in my previous post. Can the theory work now?

Im not sure, if the run to the top and bottom walls (thats how they look from the camera angle in the anime) it still looks way too far, and he doesnt have the benefit of the walls shadow too, the wall they should be closest to is the one with the shadow being cast over (behind Shika).

edit: thinking on it, I still dont quite get how they walked straight towards each other from the position where he caught her. She was standing behind her fan, and his shadow - even with the extra distance provided by the shadow on the wall, and the hole in the ground - was at its maximum distance, so if she moved forward (as a consequence of Shika moving forward) then the shadow bind would have broken straight away, as he was still in the shade of the wall at that point, so his shadow would have to stretchto allow Temari to move

[OhJustSomeRandomGuy]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

edit: thinking on it, I still dont quite get how they walked straight towards each other from the position where he caught her. She was standing behind her fan, and his shadow - even with the extra distance provided by the shadow on the wall, and the hole in the ground - was at its maximum distance, so if she moved forward (as a consequence of Shika moving forward) then the shadow bind would have broken straight away, as he was still in the shade of the wall at that point, so his shadow would have to stretchto allow Temari to move

His shadow wasn't at max distance. The only reason it stopped before it caught her was that Shikamaru was curving it to guide her towards the hole. Since the shadow in the hole doesn't count towards the length of his own shadow. I don't know where her fan went, though, so she shouldn't have walked straight forward...

[monir]

Originally Posted by GreyArea

Im not sure, if the run to the top and bottom walls (thats how they look from the camera angle in the anime) it still looks way too far, and he doesnt have the benefit of the walls shadow too, the wall they should be closest to is the one with the shadow being cast over (behind Shika).

edit: thinking on it, I still dont quite get how they walked straight towards each other from the position where he caught her. She was standing behind her fan, and his shadow - even with the extra distance provided by the shadow on the wall, and the hole in the ground - was at its maximum distance, so if she moved forward (as a consequence of Shika moving forward) then the shadow bind would have broken straight away, as he was still in the shade of the wall at that point, so his shadow would have to stretchto allow Temari to move

Just to reiterate, there were two reasons he chose that location at the begining of the fight. First one he reasoned was, he couldn't win against Temari in an open-field conflict. With his only one jutsu, he needed to get Temari into his shadow bind and his own cast shadow in the open field is not good enough to "catch" her. Temari is way to powerful for that. Also his own shadow shortens the limitation of the jutsu significantly (how far it can be stretched). The second reason was, he didn't want to hurt a girl. That's what in the anime. Anyway, so he chose to stay in the shadow of that wall. His tactical advantage was he could fight from a distance by stretching his shadow-jutsu to a much longer distance which would have been impossible if he had to stretch his own cast shadow in the open field to that distance. After he got her into his grip, he didn't need the shadow of the wall. He could use his own shadow to do the rest after closing in the distance.

For your other pickle in the jar, Temari may be getting away from the fan, but Shika is closing on the fan (Shika moves, Temari moves). So it evens out without stretching the shadow over its maximum length.

p.s. would have replied much sooner but was having way too much fun

[Vicious]

This episode kicked major ass! Just saw it.
It was one of the best (if not the best) animation in Naruto till now. Asuma was done perfectly, and he's a hard character to draw- just look his face in other episodes.

Also, it was funny Choji eating chips all the time Without a doubt, one of the best Naruto episodes so far, even better than Naruto vs. Neji.

[ryo akima]

hey i saw it wit anbu-aone in 1 night with a 56k modem the upload rate was get this 40 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it was good how shikamaru was smart and the shadow thing but i recently saw the manga and they are wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyy ahead so i wonder wat came first can u guyz tell me?