(L) Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai

[Chosen_Hero]

Oh look, sick-sister-ex-machina forcing the choice to favor Shirasaki, totally didn't see that coming the second the episode started.

Let's just throw out all development out the window while we're at it since it obviously doesn't matter.

Really hoping this doesn't end up having being a waste of the time invested in the development shown so far.

[Dark Faith]

Lost interest in the episode the moment Shirasaki got the call saying her sister would be released. Typical sick imouto subplot, yaaaaay...

[Miraluka]

The series was doing well and then it tries shoving Shirasaki down our throats. It's not even funny.

This series indeed is underrated but developments like this one makes me think the japanese fandom really saw it coming.

[tsunade666]

I think everyone see it coming. No one believe that Nagi will win and everyone already consider Tsumgi as the end girl but we don't know what crap they will do to force the situation even if Nagi is having the most development since halfway through the story.

[Chosen_Hero]

Sadly this is a trend that seems to have stuck since moe arrived. Now not everything that is moe ends up as a dissapointment but most of it does.

Development doesn't seem to matter in anime anymore, it's all just otaku pandering and that is sad.

I hope that the last few episodes breaks from the cliché, I really do but, I'm not holding my breath.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Sadly this is a trend that seems to have stuck since moe arrived. Now not everything that is moe ends up as a dissapointment but most of it does.

Development doesn't seem to matter in anime anymore, it's all just otaku pandering and that is sad.

I think it's not really fair to say that "development doesn't matter". The fact is that a lot of different characters were being developed at once in this anime. The situation with Tsumugi's sister was foreshadowed earlier in the anime too, as part of her on-going character development she had since the very opening of the first episode.

And besides... I don't really see how it's "otaku pandering". Nagi's the more popular character, so they'd be pleasing more "otaku" to take her route, I'd imagine.

That isn't to say it's flawless story development or anything (it could indeed probably be considered cliché), but the specific criticisms you're levying seem to be a stretch.

[Miraluka]

No, it's because Nagi got an interesting approach for her development that it got well received among anime fans.

Teasing us like that only to switch to Shirasaki is certainty disappointing.

[hyl]

Probably means: Go buy the upcoming "Daitoshokan no Hitsujikai: library party" on the ps vita for the other heroines

[Vaans]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

No, it's because Nagi got an interesting approach for her development that it got well received among anime fans.

Teasing us like that only to switch to Shirasaki is certainty disappointing.

Shirasaki maybe waifu material but I still want Nagi for Kakei. Oh my, this like a certain harem anime that I didn't like. Suddenly pulling it like that...I'm not happy at all.

[Pablete]

At least in that Horse riding anime pink heroine didn't win.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I think it's not really fair to say that "development doesn't matter". The fact is that a lot of different characters were being developed at once in this anime. The situation with Tsumugi's sister was foreshadowed earlier in the anime too, as part of her on-going character development she had since the very opening of the first episode.

And besides... I don't really see how it's "otaku pandering". Nagi's the more popular character, so they'd be pleasing more "otaku" to take her route, I'd imagine.

That isn't to say it's flawless story development or anything (it could indeed probably be considered cliché), but the specific criticisms you're levying seem to be a stretch.

But it really doesn't matter, Shirasaki has basically had little to no development what apart from her promise to her sister do we know? That she helps? So does everyone else, that she likes Kakei? So does everyone else. Nagi was beimg developed since almost the beginning, meanwhile all Tsugimi did was just blush and act jealous with the other non developed girls, hell even af ter this episode we still know nothing about her, except she has a sick sister, likes Kakei and that she is nice and that (in my opinion) is not enough development.

The sick sister was just in this episode to force Shirasaki to the lead and nothing more, let's see how many times she is brought up or shown im these last few episodes.

Maybe otaku pandering was a bit too much but still, the fact still stands that this like many other anime like it before it just decided to develop a character romantically only to sister-zone that character for the less developed, clichéd safe choice, it's literally the same thing over and over again, if you want I can make a list of the anime that have done so in recent memory.

The story isn't bad it's the character interaction and development with each other that is screwed up, if we had learned more about Shirasaki who at the moment seems/is basically useless to the true main plot of the Shepards than fine but who have we been seeing and learning about all along? Who has gotten the most development up to date? Sure the other girls (that weren't Nagi) were shown blush and getting jealous but that is not development.

One episode of development is not the same as a whole season of development. Especially if you still know nothing about the character in the end.

Now the anime hasn't finished and it could change in the last few episodes (not that I have any hope for it happening) but this trend is getting tiresome to see.

P.S. My arguement isn't because Nagi is the most popular one, it's because she is the most developed one of them all and we still have more to learn about her.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

But it really doesn't matter, Shirasaki has basically had little to no development what apart from her promise to her sister do we know? That she helps? So does everyone else, that she likes Kakei? So does everyone else. Nagi was beimg developed since almost the beginning, meanwhile all Tsugimi did was just blush and act jealous with the other non developed girls, hell even af ter this episode we still know nothing about her, except she has a sick sister, likes Kakei and that she is nice and that (in my opinion) is not enough development.

[...]

The story isn't bad it's the character interaction and development with each other that is screwed up, if we had learned more about Shirasaki who at the moment seems/is basically useless to the true main plot of the Shepards than fine but who have we been seeing and learning about all along? Who has gotten the most development up to date? Sure the other girls (that weren't Nagi) were shown blush and getting jealous but that is not development.

Rewatch the anime from the start and just follow the scenes with Tsugumi in each episode. It's not nearly as drastic as you're making it out to be, and interpreting it as just "blush and getting jealous" is really underselling it a lot.

Obviously, the development of Nagi is important because it's tied into the back story about the Shepherd, and the mystery of her character is a key aspect of the plot. But just because her character development involved the mystery element doesn't mean that the other characters didn't have any character development at all.

To be clear, Nagi is my favourite character too, but I think your criticism is over-stated.

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Maybe otaku pandering was a bit too much but still, the fact still stands that this like many other anime like it before it just decided to develop a character romantically only to sister-zone that character for the less developed, clichéd safe choice, it's literally the same thing over and over again, if you want I can make a list of the anime that have done so in recent memory.

It's because linear/non-interactive stories are trying to close the loop. A spark is triggered at the beginning of the story and the end of the story ties back to the beginning and closes that loop. It's not just about following some "clichéd safe choice", but about having a story that's logically consistent with itself, and delivers on the promise of what the first episode set up.

Obviously, the game is different, because it tells a story in multiple layers as you experience all the routes. So it sets up a lot of different elements at the beginning of the story and purposefully lets some of those tangents lead nowhere sometimes based on the route you choose. In the anime they're generally trying to close most of the doors they open, but that means cutting off certain possibilities that would be open if they took a multi-route/multi-ending approach (like the game).

Anyway, I understand that you don't like stories that feature this pattern of development, but I don't think it's some sort of deep underlying flaw.

[erneiz_hyde]

Let's not forget that the whole reason Kakei was beginning to change his outlook in life and started helping the Library Club was because of her.

I don't like Tsugumi as a heroine, she's too bland even in the games. But I was prepared that the show will end up with her. More importantly, I will be rather disappointed if Tamamo's and Senri's episodes are done. Kana got her issues resolved, but Senri's ended rather abruptly, and Tamamo's was only mentioned in passing.

[hyl]

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

Tsugumi was "unfortunately" the central heroine in the common route of the game as well and that was still noticable in the anime at the beginning

[Miraluka]

Being the first/main heroine in game doesn't means she is the obligatory route...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Being the first/main heroine in game doesn't means she is the obligatory route...

No but Tsugumi did have the most focus at the beginning. In fact Nagi was mostly absent in the story untill the 2nd half of the common route. The anime did a great job of making her appear slightly more frequently
My impresson ,when i was reading the trial more than 2 years ago, was if the game opening didn't mention Nagi as the 5th heroine, then i would have thought that she was a side heroine

[tsunade666]

^The anime can also present it that way. Nagi become more prominent as the story progress but in the beginning. She is more an outsider from the library club. Heck, Kana-chan has more time with Kakei in the beginning.

Plus saying the other girls aren't develop and just blush or being jealous is an understatement. They also have minor development. Senri had made her first step to do what she wanted but her story isn't done yet. Same for Tamamo with her wanting to do painting but having strict family stops her from doing what she likes.

Then there is Tsumugi who is a shy girl that started all it all.

Tsumugi is indeed the main girl for the common route and probably the first girl to clear in the game with Nagi being last because she is more tied to the central plot of the Shepard.

[Chosen_Hero]

My complaints aren't because Nagi is my favorite but because of how the anime has presented the development for these characters while mentioning plot points it never follows and then tries to go a path different than what we've seen it heading before.

Originally Posted by hyl

Spoiler for Comparison to the game:

Tsugumi was "unfortunately" the central heroine in the common route of the game as well and that was still noticable in the anime at the beginning

Than why not do it like that from the beginning instead of the bait and switch which feels like a last minute asspull? My problem is that the girls weren't developed well enough, sure Shirasaki started the club but does that mean that her development was show or that she has had any?

(Also we have to remember that VN canon isn't the same as Anime canon, we can't judge the anime by how the VN actually went (never played and I'm not going to), but we can judge the anime by it's own merits and what we have seen from it and that's what I'm doing the anime laid out the cards and I'm using them to the best of my ablity. If the anime had gone and adapted the VN scene for scene then my way of viewing this might differ but as it stands it isn't, all we see that puts focus on Shirasaki is the OP intro)


Sure, the girls have shown glimpses at some of their problems or whatever at the beginning but it was just like a few minutes and then up until theses last few episodes it was like they never existed. Heck only two girls had real problems and they have already been shown and resolved.

But what about Shirasakis friend, what's her deal? What is her development supposed to be? What about the SC President? Not I don't mean the stalker (which we are getting to in the next episode) I mean the SCP herself, why should I care about her and her crush on Kakei? What do we really know about these two? Heck, what about Kakei's friend? He got the same treatment as the girls, they mentioned in passing something about him and left it in the air until some indefinite point for... reasons. Not really seeing the developments in these characters.

The thing with Shirasaki and her sister isn't even her own direct problem, just because she has a sick sister does not mean she that's her development, why not show us how her life at home is with a sick sister? Why not have her explain that situation at home so we can get to know her better? What about her feelings on the whole matter? Wouldn't those be better than "I lied to my sister about school so please help me make the lie a real thing"? What do we really know about her to make us care for her?

We literally know nothing about her and have no reason to feel connected to her character enough to care apart from, "oh I have a sick sister, feel sorry for me", forced pity won't work on me.

Originally Posted by Miraluka

Being the first/main heroine in game doesn't means she is the obligatory route...

This, but we already know how it always goes down.



I know there is nothing I can do to change what's going to happen but I at least expected something different, cohesive and well developed.

[Pablete]

That's why Mashiroiro S has a special place in my list.

[hyl]

Hold your horses... while the anime is based off the game , the anime wasn't exactly following the game for the last 2 episodes. Since it has been mix and matching bits from the common , regular and true routes and at the same time adding anime-original scenes

At this point, you might as well throw out your knowledge about the VN since the anime is throwing curveballs to confuse both the people who have read the game and the anime-only viewers

edit:

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Sure, the girls have shown glimpses at some of their problems or whatever at the beginning but it was just like a few minutes and then up until theses last few episodes it was like they never existed. Heck only two girls had real problems and they have already been shown and resolved.

Welcome to world of VN adapted animes , in which you can't possibly stuff 40+ hours of reading time in 11-13 episodes that are slightly longer than 20 minutes each without making compromises.