AnimeSuki Forums

Kazu-kun · 2014-12-19, 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceHism

It doesn't matter if the show portrays Togo in the wrong. That's only because the show is done from the perspective of yuuna and other friends. The viewer's perspective is also important in the way anime is marketed. The point of leaving certain things open is to generate discussion which is what Evangelion did.

The viewer's perspective is important only if the show leaves stuff to interpretation, but this show is pretty clearcut and straightforward about Tougou. Tougou's complains about the system are pretty valid, but her actions are so misguided the issue gets totally ignored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceHism

She's gonna be stopped but that doesn't mean that what she was trying to do was all wrong.

It's worse than wrong. It's pointless. Unless the show actually addresses her point somehow, but I doubt it will with only one episode left and without any foreshadowing at a possible solution.

NinjaRealist · 2014-12-19, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceHism

It doesn't matter if the show portrays Togo in the wrong. That's only because the show is done from the perspective of yuuna and other friends. The viewer's perspective is also important in the way anime is marketed. The point of leaving certain things open is to generate discussion which is what Evangelion did.

Even shin sekai yori had no real resolution to its dystopian society. Neither did psycho pass. The only reason it worked out in madoka is through the power of a miracle like a wish (and even then, the witch system was just replaced with the wraith system)

And let's hold until the final episode comes regarding how the system will be dealt with.

I would say that all of those series resolved themselves by summarizing humanity as eternally flawed and ultimately doomed to self-inflicted cruelty. Yuki Yuna seems poised to resolve itself in the same way, but I still have my doubts about whether this is going to have a true grim/dark ending like

Spoiler for Madoka, Shin Sekai Yori, Mai-Hime, and RahXephon:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The viewer's perspective is important only if the show leaves stuff to interpretation

We've had this discussion before, and it's not really on-topic, but because I feel very strongly about it I will again say I completely disagree with you, on the subject of the primacy of the author's interpretation, and leave it at that. You can have the last word if you want.

gaiar33 · 2014-12-19, 20:10

-protect someone you love

-protect all people in the world

what do you choose.

Kazu-kun · 2014-12-19, 20:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaiar33

-protect someone you love

-protect all people in the world

It's a pointless question. It depends on the given situation and a lot of other variables, and it's not necessarily a binary question. Perhaps you can do both if you think outside the box.

Here's a bit from the bonus chapter of the light novel. It's relevant because it takes place while Fuu was fighting Yuuna and Tougou was about to destroy the barrier.

Spoiler for from chapter 9 of the light novel:

Key Board · 2014-12-19, 21:10

oh, that's interesting
It's such a shame that part wasn't in the anime

VDZ · 2014-12-19, 23:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The system was properly developed, and ultimately addressed.

I agree on the system being properly developed, but I strongly disagree about Madoka's system being 'ultimately addressed'.

Spoiler for Madoka:

Kazu-kun · 2014-12-19, 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDZ

I agree on the system being properly developed, but I strongly disagree about Madoka's system being 'ultimately addressed'.

Spoiler for Madoka:

I disagree.

Spoiler for Madoka spoilers:

Flower · 2014-12-19, 23:25

Let's keep things focused on Yuuki Yuuna series, okay? Madoka stuff should ideally go to the Madoka thread.

Thanks.

rladls2121 · 2014-12-20, 02:14

Togo really needs to calm down though.
Maybe it is because how she visited Sonoko of that state several times must have stressed her.
Even though this case is resolved in some way, I wonder how Togo's rebellion will affects her and her friends?
Yuuna is just too optimistic, but then that side of her.
I thinking if this is just the beginnning?

Miraluka · 2014-12-20, 12:20

Light novel is out on sale, btw it will be a matter of a week or so until the translation for the extra chapter is out if we're lucky.

The 4 koma is just damn cute.

Damn, Karin did nothing wrong, and after giving a read, there are some hear warming moments involving her in the manga.

Triple_R · 2014-12-20, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Whether Tougou's actions are understandable or logical is kind of a moot point. The show portrayed her clearly in the wrong.

Has it?

Karin's current condition seems to be a pretty strong argument in favor of what Tougou's doing. I mean, if I was Yuuki Yuuna's head writer, and I wanted to make it look clear cut that Tougou is in the wrong, I really don't think I'd have Karin go from totally fine to this sort of horrible state just due to one fight.

Between Sonoko and now Karin, it seems pretty clear to me that the narrative has gone to significant lengths to at least make Tougou's actions understandable and sympathetic.

All of the above being said, I think that you have a better handle on Madoka Magica than most of those you have been debating with on this thread.

And I strongly agree with you, and hence disagree with NinjaRealist, when it comes to the importance and primacy of the author's perspective. I agree with you on "the viewer's perspective is important only if the show leaves stuff to interpretation". I'd simply argue that this show has in fact left some things up to debate and interpretation.

Again, if the author wanted to cast Tougou in a truly damning light, then there's many things (such as Karin's current situation) that should be different. I think that the author has, in fact, gone to considerable lengths to force Yuuna to grapple with a truly nasty moral dilemma where her best friend's actions are at least defensible.

Xeiros · 2014-12-20, 21:46

That's essentially this series greatest flaw. It decided to fuck around. It starts out as and continues to be up until episode 8 a series with a premise so tired and overdone you could list a plethora of works as examples with no issue.

Karin gets an entire episode to herself as an introduction only to promptly fade into the background until episode 11 where she finally matters again for a few short minutes. Instead of weaving her into the narrative, it stops entirely only to resume again with her playing no notable part. Did we need a whole episode focusing just on her while the story slammed on the brakes? Did we need a formulaic as fuck if you're not sick of this yet you haven't seen enough anime beach/hot springs episode? It dicks around doing fuck all the majority of the series air time.

What's so sad is they planned this out to be this way. I just don't understand why. Why wait until so late into your run-time to reveal the true nature of the series world and overall conflict. Why is it despite the fact the series only has five major characters and next to no supporting ones said characters still come off as generic and lacking any sort of a diverse personality. Usually when a series has few characters there's more time to flesh them out thus making them feel more human and believable instead of the archetypes writers so often fall prey to.

Not only that, we're not shown in any detail whatsoever the world and people the girls are suffering for to protect. Why should we care when we have no attachment to it? Why are they fighting so hard to protect their world? What's a stake for us to care? Come to think of it, this series is selling splendidly in Japan. This being the case I'd argue it's better to simply resolve the current Togo issue with 12 and have them focus on the core conflict in Season 2. Yeah right, there's no way they planned that. Like others have said, they've written themselves into a corner. There's no way they can realistically resolve the main conflict in 20 minutes.

Miraluka · 2014-12-20, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeiros

That's essentially this series greatest flaw. It decided to fuck around. It starts out as and continues to be up until episode 8 a series with a premise so tired and overdone you could list a plethora of works as examples with no issue.

Karin gets an entire episode to herself as an introduction only to promptly fade into the background until episode 11 where she finally matters again for a few short minutes. Instead of weaving her into the narrative, it stops entirely only to resume again with her playing no notable part. Did we need a whole episode focusing just on her while the story slammed on the brakes? Did we need a formulaic as fuck if you're not sick of this yet you haven't seen enough anime beach/hot springs episode? It dicks around doing fuck all the majority of the series air time.

What's so sad is they planned this out to be this way. I just don't understand why. Why wait until so late into your run-time to reveal the true nature of the series world and overall conflict. Why is it despite the fact the series only has five major characters and next to no supporting ones said characters still come off as generic and lacking any sort of a diverse personality.Usually when a series has few characters there's more time to flesh them out thus making them feel more human and believable instead of the archetypes writers so often fall prey to. Not only that, we're not shown in any detail whatsoever the world and people the girls are suffering for to protect. Why should Icare when we have no attachment to it? Why are they fighting so hard to protect their world?

I fixed your "we" for a proper " I".

Xeiros · 2014-12-20, 22:06

Let me get this straight. You quoted my whole post just so you could fuck up messing around with it and then tell me about it. Do not alter my words to your convenience. I said exactly what I meant to. We refers to the audience as a whole. It refers to everyone who watches the series in general. You don't like what I said? Too bad. Maybe try responding to it. Something has gone wrong when 99% of your post is my quote. Maybe try speaking for yourself instead of tying to twist the words of others because you don't like them.

Miraluka · 2014-12-20, 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeiros

Let me get this straight. You quoted my whole post just so you could fuck up messing around with it and then tell me about it. Do not alter my words to your convenience. I said exactly what I meant to. We refers to the audience as a whole. It refers to everyone who watches the series in general. You don't like what I said? Too bad. Maybe try responding to it. Something has gone wrong when 99% of your post is my quote. Maybe try speaking for yourself instead of tying to twist the words of others because you don't like them.

What a coincidence, I'm part of the audience, surprise! And what I bolded is what you are doing: Speaking for yourself, not for others as well.

That's why I disagreed with you.

Pablete · 2014-12-20, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeiros

Let me get this straight. You quoted my whole post just so you could fuck up messing around with it and then tell me about it. Do not alter my words to your convenience. I said exactly what I meant to. We refers to the audience as a whole. It refers to everyone who watches the series in general. You don't like what I said? Too bad. Maybe try responding to it. Something has gone wrong when 99% of your post is my quote. Maybe try speaking for yourself instead of tying to twist the words of others because you don't like them.

I didn't see any I'll behaviour when someone just disagrees by changing a word from your post with the very obvious purpose of pointing it out to you.

On the other hand yours comes as a very childish response to it.

Just calm down and think twice what are you writing before posting.

Jimmy C · 2014-12-20, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xeiros

Why wait until so late into your run-time to reveal the true nature of the series world and overall conflict.

The bigger the revelation, the later it appears in a story. You may recall the biggest revelation in PMMM, the one that showed the true scale of the problem, happened in ep11 of 12.

Miraluka · 2014-12-21, 00:27

http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-29025.html

The series producer was asked if a second season or movie is posible.

His answer was positive yet ambiguous.

Jimmy C · 2014-12-21, 01:15

You can make some kind of follow up as long as someone is still alive... Even if it's just two people and an ocean of Tang.

Iby · 2014-12-21, 05:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

The bigger the revelation, the later it appears in a story. You may recall the biggest revelation in PMMM, the one that showed the true scale of the problem, happened in ep11 of 12.

There's a difference between bigger revelation and any revelation at all. What revelations we had before the second half of the 8th episode? Most of them were minor while most of stuff was already explained in the 1st episode aside from the post-Mankai consequences (which weren't confirmed until 8th episode).
And judging from what I've read in the beginning of interview it was intended to be a slice of life anime with a bit (?) of tension while character development had more focus than the actual plot.

2014-12-19, 21:10	Link #745
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	oh, that's interesting It's such a shame that part wasn't in the anime __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2014-12-19, 23:25	Link #748
Flower Blooming on the mountain Join Date: May 2010 Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....	Let's keep things focused on Yuuki Yuuna series, okay? Madoka stuff should ideally go to the Madoka thread. Thanks. __________________

2014-12-20, 21:46	Link #752
Xeiros Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	That's essentially this series greatest flaw. It decided to fuck around. It starts out as and continues to be up until episode 8 a series with a premise so tired and overdone you could list a plethora of works as examples with no issue. Karin gets an entire episode to herself as an introduction only to promptly fade into the background until episode 11 where she finally matters again for a few short minutes. Instead of weaving her into the narrative, it stops entirely only to resume again with her playing no notable part. Did we need a whole episode focusing just on her while the story slammed on the brakes? Did we need a formulaic as fuck if you're not sick of this yet you haven't seen enough anime beach/hot springs episode? It dicks around doing fuck all the majority of the series air time. What's so sad is they planned this out to be this way. I just don't understand why. Why wait until so late into your run-time to reveal the true nature of the series world and overall conflict. Why is it despite the fact the series only has five major characters and next to no supporting ones said characters still come off as generic and lacking any sort of a diverse personality. Usually when a series has few characters there's more time to flesh them out thus making them feel more human and believable instead of the archetypes writers so often fall prey to. Not only that, we're not shown in any detail whatsoever the world and people the girls are suffering for to protect. Why should we care when we have no attachment to it? Why are they fighting so hard to protect their world? What's a stake for us to care? Come to think of it, this series is selling splendidly in Japan. This being the case I'd argue it's better to simply resolve the current Togo issue with 12 and have them focus on the core conflict in Season 2. Yeah right, there's no way they planned that. Like others have said, they've written themselves into a corner. There's no way they can realistically resolve the main conflict in 20 minutes. __________________ Last edited by Xeiros; 2014-12-20 at 22:02.

2014-12-20, 22:06	Link #754
Xeiros Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007	Let me get this straight. You quoted my whole post just so you could fuck up messing around with it and then tell me about it. Do not alter my words to your convenience. I said exactly what I meant to. We refers to the audience as a whole. It refers to everyone who watches the series in general. You don't like what I said? Too bad. Maybe try responding to it. Something has gone wrong when 99% of your post is my quote. Maybe try speaking for yourself instead of tying to twist the words of others because you don't like them. __________________

2014-12-21, 00:27	Link #758
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-29025.html The series producer was asked if a second season or movie is posible. His answer was positive yet ambiguous. Last edited by Miraluka; 2014-12-21 at 10:16.

2014-12-19, 20:10	Link #743
gaiar33 Member Join Date: Sep 2014	-protect someone you love -protect all people in the world what do you choose.

2014-12-20, 02:14	Link #749
rladls2121 Senior Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: California(Current).	Togo really needs to calm down though. Maybe it is because how she visited Sonoko of that state several times must have stressed her. Even though this case is resolved in some way, I wonder how Togo's rebellion will affects her and her friends? Yuuna is just too optimistic, but then that side of her. I thinking if this is just the beginnning?

2014-12-20, 12:20	Link #750
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Light novel is out on sale, btw it will be a matter of a week or so until the translation for the extra chapter is out if we're lucky. The 4 koma is just damn cute. Damn, Karin did nothing wrong, and after giving a read, there are some hear warming moments involving her in the manga.

2014-12-21, 01:15	Link #759
Jimmy C Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007	You can make some kind of follow up as long as someone is still alive... Even if it's just two people and an ocean of Tang.