Madan no Ou to Vanadis [Light Novel]

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by DragonKing0117

Baba Yaga is also from slavic myth. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12851....htm#BABA_Yaga
Also, can someone give me a link to that story of a slavic king and his seven wives, I can't seem to find it.

Apparently,it's not so much as a tale but an actual real life example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great

[DragonKing0117]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

Apparently,it's not so much as a tale but an actual real life example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great

I know about the thing with Vladmir the great, but I thought there was a tale besides him. Besides, it mentions he had hundreds of concubines and a number of wives while only six of the wives are listed. It's probably not him.

[SineMora]

Also there's another slavic myth... a tragic one... where the archer boy and princess swordswoman end up dead... I can't dig up that twitter post anymore

[DragonKing0117]

So... In conclusion, Brune is France, Zchted is Russia, Asvarre is Great Britain, and Muozinel is (Turkey?), with some Norse concepts thrown into the mix (Vanadis were under Freyja, Regin is the name of a dwarf who was the brother to Fafnir who was turned into a dragon courtesy of Andvaranaught, the ring of Andvari).

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by DragonKing0117

So... In conclusion, Brune is France, Zchted is Russia, Asvarre is Great Britain, and Muozinel is (Turkey?), with some Norse concepts thrown into the mix (Vanadis were under Freyja, Regin is the name of a dwarf who was the brother to Fafnir who was turned into a dragon courtesy of Andvaranaught, the ring of Andvari).

I agree with you except that I think Mouzinel is probably more like Spain. Besides, I don't think that the author probably had any intention about relating it to RL, it was probably just coincidence(?)

[Apoptosis]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I agree with you except that I think Mouzinel is probably more like Spain. Besides, I don't think that the author probably had any intention about relating it to RL, it was probably just coincidence(?)

I'm pretty sure the similarities to real world countries was intentional.

[setsuna86]

Originally Posted by Armando99

I agree with you except that I think Mouzinel is probably more like Spain. Besides, I don't think that the author probably had any intention about relating it to RL, it was probably just coincidence(?)

Muozinel is rather more like Persia (currently Iran?), I think.

[Irenicus]

They are basically the Ottomans. Think massively threatening imperial power with (complex) slavery system that's culturally alien to the West. The whole slaves being able to rise up to generals is exactly how Ottoman slavery works.

Hell, that Muozinel general whatshisname Barbarossa is an obvious reference to the legendary Ottoman admiral and corsair pirate Hayreddin Barbarossa. Though the author borrows an element of the other legendary Barbarossa, the red-bearded Holy Roman Emperor, as well.

The map the author created disappointed me, though. It looks too much like Europe. Sachsen looks like it's exactly where the Holy Roman Empire is, even to the point of including that pointless peninsula to add in "Italy"; Asvarre is France + Britain; Brune sits where Poland is; Z...Vanadisland is Lithuania + Russia. And Muozinel is coincidentally right where Turkey is, more or less.

But culturally, yes, Brune sounds a lot more like France than Poland. Alsace as a conflict flashpoint, sounds familiar. Plus, longbow haters ain't gonna Agincourt.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

They are basically the Ottomans. Think massively threatening imperial power with (complex) slavery system that's culturally alien to the West. The whole slaves being able to rise up to generals is exactly how Ottoman slavery works.

Hell, that Muozinel general whatshisname Barbarossa is an obvious reference to the legendary Ottoman admiral and corsair pirate Hayreddin Barbarossa. Though the author borrows an element of the other legendary Barbarossa, the red-bearded Holy Roman Emperor, as well.

The map the author created disappointed me, though. It looks too much like Europe. Sachsen looks like it's exactly where the Holy Roman Empire is, even to the point of including that pointless peninsula to add in "Italy"; Asvarre is France + Britain; Brune sits where Poland is; Z...Vanadisland is Lithuania + Russia. And Muozinel is coincidentally right where Turkey is, more or less.

But culturally, yes, Brune sounds a lot more like France than Poland. Longbow haters ain't gonna Agincourt.

That's basically how the entire Middle East operates.It wasn't just the Ottomans who used such a system.The other Middle Eastern states had Mameluks.

[Irenicus]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

That's basically how the entire Middle East operates.It wasn't just the Ottomans who used such a system.The other Middle Eastern states had Mameluks.

I know and I agree. It's more appropriately an Islamic slavery thing. But the various Mameluke and Turkic states, including Mameluke Egypt, didn't have Barbarossa's running around and they did not launch great invasions into Europe. So Muozinel, if we would like to find an OTL equivalent just for fun, sounds exactly like the Ottomans.

[ikramit]

Checked the madan wiki, according to it in an interview with Tsukasa Kawaguchi the author the five kingdoms are France for Brune, Russia for Zhcted, Persia for Muozinel, Germany for Sachstein and the United Kingdom for Asvarre.

[Apoptosis]

Originally Posted by Moe Connection

That's basically how the entire Middle East operates.It wasn't just the Ottomans who used such a system.The other Middle Eastern states had Mameluks.

This system of government is called meritocracy I think.

[Mentar]

Zchted is Prussia (a predecessor of modern Germany), not Russia. Several city names actually existed.

[Avrorrange]

Originally Posted by Apoptosis

This system of government is called meritocracy I think.

No it's not.It wasn't from being a genuine meritocracy in that big aristocrats still have positions in governments.The position of the supreme ruler is also inherited to some extent(outright in the Ottoman Empire).A slave can only advance to high positions precisely because they are slaves.They are thought as being loyal than non-slaves.You will have a harder time advancing if you are a non-slave commoner.

[DragonKing0117]

Originally Posted by ikramit

Checked the madan wiki, according to it in an interview with Tsukasa Kawaguchi the author the five kingdoms are France for Brune, Russia for Zhcted, Persia for Muozinel, Germany for Sachstein and the United Kingdom for Asvarre.

So I got 3 (out of the four I answered) right. Good to know.

[Newhope]

The ottemans would be the most likely, they had the most contact with Europe with the Ottoman Wars and where very active slave raiders though Crimea into Russia and southern Europe with the Barbary pirates.

Persia had very limited contact with Europe in that period and Mameluks by the early 15th century where conquered by the ottomans.

[Hiyono]

Not exactly directly related to Madan, but Madan readers might find this pretty cool: Video by some guy who claims to have discovered how ancient archers fought.

He's on a serious ego-trip but his skills are amazing. Gives you some context for the kinda stuff that Tigre is supposedly able to do

[DragonKing0117]

Originally Posted by Nandesuto

Not exactly directly related to Madan, but Madan readers might find this pretty cool: Video by some guy who claims to have discovered how ancient archers fought.

He's on a serious ego-trip but his skills are amazing. Gives you some context for the kinda stuff that Tigre is supposedly able to do

That's a nice video, and it makes more of Tigre's feats believable.

[ikramit]

This comment under the video pretty much mirrors my own so I'll just paste it here because I'm lazy:

"I have to take this with a grain of salt. He's using a 30 lb bow, and half-drawing it, weakening it further.

Part of the vid shows him shooting bullet-point arrows at "riveted chain mail" and piercing it. What gauge is the wire of the rings? That matters. Also the range is short, looks like less than 15m, and it doesn't look like the arrows penetrate very deeply.

History and logic says:

There's a reason soldiers and knights of the sword-and-bow era wore 40-60 lbs of armor, and it certainly wasn't decoration... they needed it for protection. Otherwise they would not have tolerated the weight and discomfort, and would have discarded it in favor of mobility and endurance... so they wore it of necessity. Thus the real actual armor had to have been a bit more effective at stopping attacks than detractors claim.

A recent find indicates that the draw-strength of the English longbow varied from 65 to 160 lbs... averaging perhaps 80-120 lbs. They would not have used such heavy draw weights for war-bows if a 30 pound draw would have sufficed, as the heavier draw is both slower and more tiring to the arm. If they used it, they needed it.

When he can do those tricks with an 80 lb draw longbow, at typical engagement ranges of 100m+, then I will be impressed.

While Andersen's skills, or perhaps I should say tricks, are certainly remarkable, I must take with a large helping of salt the notion that ancient archers used these same methods in warfare against armored opponents."

[Armando99]

Originally Posted by ikramit

This comment under the video pretty much mirrors my own so I'll just paste it here because I'm lazy:

"I have to take this with a grain of salt. He's using a 30 lb bow, and half-drawing it, weakening it further.

Part of the vid shows him shooting bullet-point arrows at "riveted chain mail" and piercing it. What gauge is the wire of the rings? That matters. Also the range is short, looks like less than 15m, and it doesn't look like the arrows penetrate very deeply.

History and logic says:

There's a reason soldiers and knights of the sword-and-bow era wore 40-60 lbs of armor, and it certainly wasn't decoration... they needed it for protection. Otherwise they would not have tolerated the weight and discomfort, and would have discarded it in favor of mobility and endurance... so they wore it of necessity. Thus the real actual armor had to have been a bit more effective at stopping attacks than detractors claim.

A recent find indicates that the draw-strength of the English longbow varied from 65 to 160 lbs... averaging perhaps 80-120 lbs. They would not have used such heavy draw weights for war-bows if a 30 pound draw would have sufficed, as the heavier draw is both slower and more tiring to the arm. If they used it, they needed it.

When he can do those tricks with an 80 lb draw longbow, at typical engagement ranges of 100m+, then I will be impressed.

While Andersen's skills, or perhaps I should say tricks, are certainly remarkable, I must take with a large helping of salt the notion that ancient archers used these same methods in warfare against armored opponents."

Here is what most say about history and logic when it comes to fiction, specially Japanese ones, Bleeh!. Throw them out of the windows. I was already told this many times.