(L) Death Parade

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by El psy congoline

Does that mean two people can get reincarnated or sent to the void?

Also what happened to the baby that would have been reincarnated right?

there was no baby yet - there was an embryo in its early stages.
Whether thats already considered a separate living being in the first place is apparently an ongoing debate.
The setting too kinda implies that the embryo wasn't in a cognitive state yet, or was just never sent to the quindecim at all.

[wisteria233]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Consider this: have you ever thought of the possibility that the phone call Machiko received that led to the car crash was from the guy whom she had an affair with? Just because she felt guilty about it doesn't mean she was thorough.


Like I said, this premise is fully flawed to begin with if you're trying to justify Machiko's affair by blaming Takashi just so we can fit the "either-or" standard where one person must be damned.

There's also the possibility that like Decim, Nona is also not human, and as a result lacks a sense of compassion just like he does. It's likely that she only picked up on the vices of human nature due to her being more experienced with the job.

Consider the following:
The phone call may have been from someone else. There was nothing stating that said that the affair was anything more a one night stand.

Takashi is paranoid and has issues with trust, so even if she didn't cheat on him they would still have problems. No one is trying to justify Machiko's affair, however at the same time, no one should be trying to justify Takashi's actions either since his actions are what lead to the affair in the first place. This is not a chicken or the egg debate.

[El psy congoline]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

there was no baby yet - there was an embryo in its early stages.
Whether thats already considered a separate living being in the first place is apparently an ongoing debate.
The setting too kinda implies that the embryo wasn't in a cognitive state yet, or was just never sent to the quindecim at all.

Makes sense I feel better now thanks but what if it was a women in the later stages of pregnancy would the arbiters be biased and send her for reincarnation or just the baby

[Miraluka]

So she instead of talking it out with her husband she went and had an affair.

Seems legit.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Nona also explicitly stated that she and Decim are in no way omnipotent, nor do they know the couple's true nature, which is why they create such conditions so that they can form their own conclusions about the couple's true character.

The major difference between Nona and Decim is the fact that the former understands human nature to a certain extent compared to Decim.
The fact she wasn't surprised by the other girl's theory compared to Decim, and even "scolded" Decim afterwards about his role is quite telling there.

In any case, I find that way too convenient that Nona could figure Takashi's distrustful nature, but fail to see that Machiko would cheat on him for any mere reason.

Consider this: have you ever thought of the possibility that the phone call Machiko received that led to the car crash was from the guy whom she had an affair with? Just because she felt guilty about it doesn't mean she was thorough.

All flashbacks converge to one thing: that not only Machiko regretted what she did, but also that valued her marriage after all, even at the last moment when facing Takashi and Decim.
While I wouldn't be surprised that the phone call was her affair, I really doubt she keep having affairs in the mean time, otherwise her behaviour and her grief wouldn't make any sense.

Like I said, this premise is fully flawed to begin with if you're trying to justify Machiko's affair by blaming Takashi just so we can fit the "either-or" standard where one person must be damned.

The series never implied one must be reincarnated and one must be sent to the void. This situation happens to show that someone was sent to the void, but nor Decim nor Nona stated that there has to be 1 guilty and 1 innocent among the 2 souls appearing before them.

There's also the possibility that like Decim, Nona is also not human, and as a result lacks a sense of compassion just like he does. It's likely that she only picked up on the vices of human nature due to her being more experienced with the job.

And this is where it doesn't make much sense: if Nona is able to just pick vices of human nature, why did she fail to pick Machiko's "lust" or inability to stick with someone even with ever a slight trouble?

This is the major point: even with Nona isn't perfect as an arbiter, in THIS case, she could pick the fundamental issue with Takashi's character. Considering everything related to Machiko, I really doubt she would miss Machiko's vice assuming she would cheat for any reason possible.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

What should he have done? Ask the two if they were talking about his wife?
Or ask his wife if they were tlaking about her?

That simple: ask the two girls afterwards stuff like what is Machiko's nickname with a pretext like asking how Machiko was during school/college and the likes. If by chance he learns about Machida Yuki, he can always ask the latter about her husband.
Really, it isn't hard to make some confirmation without asking directly "hey, does my wife cheat on me?"

I also want to point out that only her card was shown, but not her husbands and there was no indication that they divorced. And since we are already at the topic of her husband - her card still said 'Machida'

Except that in Asia, it isn't unusual to refer to a woman with their maiden name. The fact she is still called Machida doesn't mean she isn't married again.

Now lets get down to that proof I promised regarding how long it actually took Machiko to cheat on her husband.

She was pregnant already before their wedding ceremony and he still had no idea she was pregnant even afterwards. We thus know that not too much time has passed since her finding out she was pregnant and the wedding already. Yet as of the sate of their honeymoon he apparently still had no idea she was pregnant.

Thus only a few weeks at best could hav epassed between their marriage and their honeymoon. As she cheated after their marriage it only took her a few weeks at best to cheat on him.
That makes me pretty confident that she would have cheated anyway.

That's no evidence whatsoever.
We all figured that she cheated on Takashi sometime after their wedding but before the honeymoon, which is indeed several weeks at most.

So what of it? I don't think anyone can boldly claim you need months or years for a relationship to deterioriate.
Considering how furious Takashi was upon hearing Machiko's friends discussion and how he looked right when they were cutting the wedding cake, along with his outburst in the bar, it is very clear that Takashi can have a very emotional feedback due to his paranoia.

Following this, I don't see how "the fact Machiko cheated on Takashi within few weeks" is an evidence that she would cheat on him due to petty reason.
We don't have anything that show how bad their relationship went to the drain. We don't know if Machiko doesn't have any depression syndrome and what not. We simply don't have any evidence that show the circumstances regarding Machiko's affair. The fact it happened within weeks doesn't mean anything at all. There are couples out there that could snap within days, while others would stick together for years even if there is domestic violence. So really, the period argument is nonsense when you consider human relationships.

We can speculate towards both sides that A) she is unsecure and needs another man when there is a slightest trouble or B) she was completely cornered to the point she went unfaithful once.

There is one fact that does tend to the latter, and it is her consistent characterization in both ep1 and ep2: that she valued her marriage.
With this, I consider way more logical that things went extremely sour at some point before the honeymoon and Machiko did that mistake once.
And with all this debate, there is another fact that is quite important: as already mentioned several times, the core issue was due to Takashi's paranoia, fueling both his assumption that Machiko cheated on him AND Machiko ultimately cheating on him.
Again, this doesn't mean she is completely innocent, but I believe there are points that demonstrate Takashi being the one responsible for this mess. That's all I have to add there.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

We can't say that for sure, thats just Nona's assessment - the two the two woman's chatter was more than enough reason to become suspcious.

No, look, what I said is that

"Whether Machiko was a 100% faithful person or not Takashi would have suspected her anyway"

not

"Whether Takashi heard the gossip or not he would have suspected Machiko anyway."


The second is Nona's unsubstantiated assessment (which is probably true, but we have no proof), the first is almost certainly a fact.

We have no reason whatsoever to think that Machiko gave any reason to Takashi to think that she was cheating on him up to the day of the ceremony.

We know that in the end she did cheat him, but supposing there was another woman in her place a woman that would have never betrayed him, Takashi would have suspected her anyway, because the reason he first started to grow suspicious has absolutely nothing to do with what his wife actually did.

This is what I mean when I say that Takashi has been right for all the wrong reasons.

Following this, I don't see how "the fact Machiko cheated on Takashi within few weeks" is an evidence that she would cheat on him due to petty reason.
We don't have anything that show how bad their relationship went to the drain. The fact it happened within weeks doesn't mean anything at all.

I can't really agree with that. I think it tells a lot in fact.
It is to be expected that a relationship might enter into a bad phase, a lot of things can happen. Apparently a few weeks into a bad phase was enough to bring Machiko to cheat on her husband.

We don't know if Machiko doesn't have any depression syndrome and what not. We simply don't have any evidence that show the circumstances regarding Machiko's affair.

Exactly, we don't have any evidence that there were more issues than those that have been presented. And it is absolutely hypocritical to consider a far-fetched hypothetical scenario in her case but not in Takashi's case.
Why not imagining that perhaps Machiko had betrayed Takashi already in the past and that he had hard evidence of it?
Let's not conjure stuff that weren't presented. Let's not imagine that their relationship was worse than what can be ostensibly evinced from what was shown. Else literally everything could be possible, and any speculation would be pointless.

[wisteria233]

I think to add on to this, this may be a case of the character knowing more than the audience and the audience simply has to take their word for it. So Nona may be making an informed observation, using all of the memories from both parties.

The arbitrators received those memories ahead of time, so its not the memories that decide where the deceased go, nor is it whether they win or lose, its their behavior during the game. After all its the game that makes them show their true colors.

In the previous episode we saw Takashi, basically willing and plotting to win even at the cost of Michiko's life, justifying his actions with the excuse that she cheated on him, and was desperate to believe that he shouldn't trust her. Its highly likely that had Michiko not done what she had done then Takashi would have gone to the void.

[Calca]

For those of you complaining about Decim making a mistake, don't try and purposely fool the judge deciding the fate of your eternal soul. It may work.

[Hamster]

If the 'void' really is complete nothingness, how is that any different from reincarnation?

Think about it, when I die, you could just pick out a random newborn baby and call it my reincarnated self. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant because I wouldn't know about it anyway. In this way there really isn't a difference between void and reincarnation.

Unless the person has flashbacks of his previous life, then that's another story.

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Hamster

If the 'void' really is complete nothingness, how is that any different from reincarnation?

Think about it, when I die, you could just pick out a random newborn baby and call it my reincarnated self. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant because I wouldn't know about it anyway. In this way there really isn't a difference between void and reincarnation.

Unless the person has flashbacks of his previous life, then that's another story.

Have you ever been put under general anesthesia? Think of the void like that, only forever. Like a candle that is out.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I can't really agree with that. I think it tells a lot in fact.
It is to be expected that a relationship might enter into a bad phase, a lot of things can happen. Apparently a few weeks into a bad phase was enough to bring Machiko to cheat on her husband.

This is where we will have to agree to disagree then.
Simply put, a relationship has absolutely "no standards" when it comes to ups and downs. As I already stated, there are married couples in the world that completely snapped within -days- while others could last years even when grave issues like domestic violence are involved, even if in both cases, both are loving each other for real. So it is plainly up to some individuals and their cirmcunstances, instead of standards.
Saying it is "just few weeks" is really not valid in my eyes, because depending of the context, someone might not bear a sudden shift of behaviour from their spouse, especially if the latter behave erraticly for a grave issue. I don't think you can consider "someone thinking you are cheating on them" would behave the same way as "someone who had an argument with you".
Again, we never saw how Takashi treated Machiko before the honeymoon, but I think it is safe to think that things went quite ugly some times, otherwise it doesn't make sense with Takashi's expressions and state of mind.

Exactly, we don't have any evidence that there were more issues than those that have been presented. And it is absolutely hypocritical to consider a far-fetched hypothetical scenario in her case but not in Takashi's case.
Why not imagining that perhaps Machiko had betrayed Takashi already in the past and that he had hard evidence of it?

Takashi's case doesn't require any hypothetical scenario because it was flatly explained by Nona at this point. Also, if Machiko betrayed Takashi in the past, Takashi would have mentioned it against Machiko when he was confronting her about the discussion between the 2 women in the toilet. For someone who is so paranoid, I -really- don't believe he would fail to mention another point that would further justify his suspicions. Even if it is not related, considering Takashi's character, he would argue "you already betrayed me before, why should I trust you again?" or something like that.

Also, what I mentioned up to now was to confront the idea that "but if she cheated on him like that, she WILL cheat on him regardless of the reason!", which is the biggest hypothetical claim in the bunch imho, simply because the sole argument was "time" whereas this is not valid as time is definitely not telling when it comes to human relationships.
That's also why I stated in my last post that both sides can keep going on with speculations, but there are some facts that tend to a certain side.

I guess I will just stop right here, this debate is derailing the thread to that single case.

Originally Posted by Hamster

If the 'void' really is complete nothingness, how is that any different from reincarnation?

Think about it, when I die, you could just pick out a random newborn baby and call it my reincarnated self. Whether or not it's true is irrelevant because I wouldn't know about it anyway. In this way there really isn't a difference between void and reincarnation.

Unless the person has flashbacks of his previous life, then that's another story.

Well, the series make such implication that the void is arguably NOT a nice place to be.
And actually, it was defined by the anime website:

http://www.deathparade.jp/introduction/words.html

In a nutshell, the void is literally a graveyard of souls where the ones there are stuck with their conscious alive along with their negative emotions, in a completely empty place for -all eternity-.
So really, you are casted in a place where damned souls are stuck forever. It is plainly not the same as reincarnation.

[Hamster]

Interesting. I guess that means the void in this series is the same as the Shinto afterlife, where all dead souls supposedly go to the graveyard regardless of what they do in life.

That's just damn depressing. Having an imperfect afterlife judging system is not a universe you want to be in. The souls should have a talk with Decim's manager or whoever is in charge.

[Iron Maw]

Eh, most myths and religions have some concept of graveyard souls in one way or anther. Hell in Christianity also functions similarly like that, but whether the individual still has awareness there or not is the question.

[Hiyono]

Of all the religious systems describing an afterlife that I've heard of, one that's this arbitrary is by far the worst. It's certainly... unique, at least, I guess.

MFW when I'm a judge of someone's eternal fate: http://imgur.com/r/highqualitygifs/1SdePSU

[Stark700]

So they are going with...

Spoiler:

bowling this time as the game. Nice. And unlike the first game, this one had quite a different ending. Great show still though. It keeps up the gimmicks that I found to be appealing and characters have interesting roles.

And even now, that OP song is so addictive

[Klashikari]

Spoiler for episode 3:

This episode was a very nice change of pace, and the mood is certainly fitting even though the first 2 episodes were quite different in that regard.

The series doesn't have to be grimdark nor all philosophical whatsoever, and I certainly dig how the woman and Decim are interacting with each other.
Speaking of which, color me completely fooled by Decim's faint... to think he can crack some joke in such momentum

This episode also confirms 3 points relevant for the rest of the series:
-Games aren't solely stuck with a "bar style" of games, so we might have more fancy things than Bowling.
-Both souls can reincarnate. Which also means we might see souls that are sent to the void at the same time.
-As expected, the series won't have 2 episodes per cases. Ep2 was just more insight for later.

This episode felt good, no doubt.

[bakaouji]

That was a gutter ball if I ever saw one.

I don't like it when the characters act in a way that the plot/premise requires them to. The 'couple' practically took everything in stride and didn't seem all that affected even after they learned that they'd died. They're blushing like school children even though both are suffering from mild amnesia. The dude even asks the girl out on a date mere minutes after he learns that she can't even remember her name.

The show also completely banks on the final insipid twist by revealing that the girl is not who she appeared to be and hopes that it'll be enough of a payoff and then proceeds to placate the viewers with a lame 'happy' ending. The show completely shrugs off the truly shocking fact that the girl underwent facial surgery to look like the girl her unrequited lover had a crush on. They could've mined a lot from that but the show simply includes it in there because the episode needs the obligatory twist for its third act.

Huge step down from last week's episode and judging from the preview it seems like next week they're gonna feature another straight couple. Why doesn't the show mix it up a little by exploring other relationships?

[EroKing]

Highly enjoyed this week's episode. Still quite the tragedy that those two died just when they were reunited. I kinda doubt we will get too much of these "feel good" episodes in the future.

[DOmus]

Spoiler for chapter:

OHHHHHH YEAH BABY, VANILLA FTW
Lovely history, no hate or something like that whatsoever.

After the previous chapter that was kinda hard for my heart, this one is gladly accepted
And lol to Decim, he do have his own sense of humor

Finally a chapter that has been fully explained
As always, really good quality, Madhouse do know how to do their things when they want to

[ookamigirl]

A new pair plays a game.
This time it's bowling.
It's nice to see the new assistant play her part.
This new pair didn't seem like a couple at all.
Their behavior was innocent... like they had some hidden feelings.
Guess they don't have to be a couple after all.
Maybe just have some feelings for each other..
This episode wasn't as dramatic as first, but was more sad.