AnimeSuki Forums

physics223 · 2006-04-30, 13:03

They really didn't do too well on Vincent's face this episode ... that's what I saw. This show is still among the best of 2006, but I doubt that it's as good as the previous Manglobe productions: Samurai Champloo

and Rozen Maiden: Traumend

. Still, I shouldn't be so conclusive and narrow-minded while still at episode nine, and that's why I plan to watch through all of this show.

I do have a problem with the HENSHIN thing. Call me nitpicky, but there could have been some more subtler ways that I did not think of. Anyway, the fight scenes still are beautiful, but I seriously have a problem with his face ...

It's not that this show is bad, it's just disappointing when you have that kind of kickass first episode but are unable to maintain the quality of it. I know 23-episodes are a lot of work and use a lot of time to get done, but at least I could argue that Mushishi had a lesser budget than this show (correct me if I'm wrong) but had more consistent animation ... it's just that ... if they knew how to start properly, they should know how to maintain the show well as well.

MAHOU 戦隊 VINCENTO~TAN! HENSHIN! *the tune of Voltes Five plays*

I laughed through the fights, though. When you look at the absurdity of it all, you could really laugh hard ... especially with the beautiful rabu~rabu (!!!) parallelism that BluWacky used to describe Vincent's dedication to Real ... this is just a more seriously absurd Ouran. I remembered when I watched Ouran that time I almost choked because of the funny way it was portrayed.

Plus with all the quirky Mahou Shounen and Pokemon allusions, it's hard not to laugh through it all. When I watched

Spoiler:

Aniki Meiski · 2006-04-30, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrProphet

I see. Thanks a lot for the rundown. It sounds like a very cool episode, but I'll have to see it myself, I guess.

Spoiler:

Shi no dairinin? Death's Proxy? Sounds like a title. I wonder if all of these Proxies running around have titles.

They do have all these ridiculous titles and they always make sure that they wear baggy clothes otherwise they will run around naked most of the time.

4 Proxies so far
Vincent Law AKA Ergo Proxy AKA Proxy of Death from Mosco Dome City
Monad Proxy from Mosco Dome City
Mayahuel AKA Senekisu Proxy AKA Proxy of Moonlight from Halos Dome City
Kazukisu Hauer AKA Kazukisu Proxy AKA Proxy of Radiance from Asura Dome City Power Fire

Deacon Blues · 2006-04-30, 22:38

LoL... Real will be another one... then her and Vincent can shack up and have a proxy orgy...

physics223 · 2006-04-30, 22:43

Anyway, they are hot guys, so even if my android dreams become a proxy ... COOL.

This is turning into Ouran. Seriously funny ... XD

ORGY! ORGY! ORGY! ORGY! mmm!

Zaresh · 2006-04-30, 23:37

Damn ! The damnest thing is...

Spoiler:

I definitively going to watch this anime, even if It doesn´t surprise me episode to episode or drawing and animation are weird and irregular. I´m certainly interested in whatever would be. EP still is one of the best anime series currently and I´m enjoying with it.

(but my plot was more amazing xD, I´m sure. Bleh...).

Orgy?... Orgy !! Orgy !!

physics223 · 2006-05-01, 00:31

I feel what you feel. Of course I was disappointed (and still am) that Ergo Proxy didn't reach the level of its hype, but seriously ... I was happy. Really, really, happy. I mean when he

Spoiler:

I mean it practically parodies Ouran, all the Mahou Shounens and sentais out there, and now, Bleach - Kazukhis Hower xxxD = Kyouraku ... !!!

This is a show that is funny ... really, really, really funny ... !!!

A! I know who will be the orgy-players! Real, Vincent, Daedalus ... and PINO!?!?!?!?!?! xD

physics223 · 2006-05-01, 01:07

Chikyuu Sentai VINCENTO~TAN! ~ 地球戦隊 VINCENTO~TAN!

Spoiler for I AM t3h p0w3rz! I pwn j00 a11:

I LMAO'd when this appeared ...

Zaresh · 2006-05-01, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by physics223

I feel what you feel. Of course I was disappointed (and still am) that Ergo Proxy didn't reach the level of its hype, but seriously ... I was happy. Really, really, happy. I mean when he

Spoiler:

I mean it practically parodies Ouran, all the Mahou Shounens and sentais out there, and now, Bleach - Kazukhis Hower xxxD = Kyouraku ... !!!

This is a show that is funny ... really, really, really funny ... !!!

A! I know who will be the orgy-players! Real, Vincent, Daedalus ... and PINO!?!?!?!?!?! xD

Arggztfr !!! I´m frightened a lot xDD. You´ve forgotten Raul, that old-cold-fashion-angered guy, who likes sadism a lot xD Surely, he would join in the party (xDD).

Ah, godness, we have here an example of how to put something hilarious on something serious, and viceversa (that remainds me the "proxyball, I choose you" thinking xD). EP isn´t only inspired in Blade Runner environment and other sci-fi stories, EP is an all-sort-of-anime-series-mix !!! xD.

I´ve a question now about names. It was said there are references to books as Alice in Wonderland and so, but someone in other forums suggested me if may Pino be a link to "Pinocho" (I don´t know which´s the name in english, sorry): she is mechanic, an android, but looks like a little girl. However, "cogito" become her "human" and now she is learning about what´s a human being and human fellings. Can it be?

EDIT: No... he´s a SEED !!! (or he´s a newtype O.o xDD)

physics223 · 2006-05-01, 02:09

It isn't serious anymore ... it's gotten absurdly funny! No, Raul wouldn't agree because Pino's his daughter? But he'd take Real away from Vincent ... supposedly for 'examination' purposes ... XD

Ergo Proxy is the jack-of-all-SF-anime! It dabbles in almost everything. It's simply the best parody anime of the season xxD!

It's not wao's 'proxyball, I choose you!' ~ they've gotten simpler. It's I am t3h m4h0u sh0un3n w/ t3h p0w3r 2 pwn j00 all sux00rzz ... ! It's BEAST WARS ~ TRANSFORMERS!

Back to SERIOUS MODE ... (for a little while) ... anyway, the nomenclature as of now of the different characters so far bear little to describe them or their actions. These words are merely hints ... to something simple xxD ...

I do like the anime even more ... this is just excellent shit!

EDIT: Try muting the media player you use in opening Ergo Proxy, and then open another instance of the player and play the Voltes Five theme song. You'd laugh your ass out ... especially the later part ... =D

kron · 2006-05-01, 12:55

so.. the discussion thread of ergo proxy has some of the most retarded discussions with people repeating the same thing over and over again... for the last 2 pages at least... k...

physics223 · 2006-05-01, 14:24

When you look beneath it all, Ergo Proxy is still an anime. So far, I'm pretty disappointed in it (so far are the keywords), but I don't think our retarded discussions offend anybody at all. Aside from the fact that I personally think Ergo Proxy is retardedly funny, I personally think it works for me as a serious SF with comedic elements ... I do hope it would work for me as an SF, so until that happens or until Real appears in Cytotropism or Anamnesis, I think it's alright for me to make fun of this show, because it is funny, when you really think of it ... (or just have a twisted sense of humor like mine).

Aniki Meiski · 2006-05-01, 15:38

Episode 8 & 9 Quick Summary Major Spoiler on Vincent

Spoiler:

nubby · 2006-05-01, 16:06

Crazy theory but what if Monad was the real Lil/Rel/Real and the current one is some sort of clone? It might explain why Vincent is so attracted to Lil and maybe why Daedalus is in charge of the Monad experiment. How about Ergo proxy trying to awaken Lil in episode one? I'm probably 100% wrong tho

physics223 · 2006-05-01, 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by nubby

Crazy theory but what if Monad was the real Lil/Rel/Real and the current one is some sort of clone? It might explain why Vincent is so attracted to Lil and maybe why Daedalus is in charge of the Monad experiment. How about Ergo proxy trying to awaken Lil in episode one? I'm probably 100% wrong tho

Monad didn't really die yet, right? Anyway, I'm guessing and am pretty sure Monad's a girl - look at those breasts. Although genetically errant DNA of guys can produce secondary sexual characteristic, it's very rare for guys to have boobs.

Your theory isn't crazy at all. That would probably explain why Monad has some sort of attraction for Real but doesn't hurt her and also has a similar attraction to Vincent. However, I don't think Vince's love for Real is implanted, so it probably pertains to his love for Monad,as stated by Kazukhis, but is only displaced. Or perhaps Real was Monad herself but forgot all about it because of the cleansing (brainwash) power of Daedalus ...

I'm wondering, though, that unless Real saw only her imagination on episode one, that Real and Monad are two different entities, which brought me from your theory to think that Real _may_ be another instance of Monad.

@Aniki

Thank you for that insightful synopsis/summary of episode eight and nine. You singlehandedly brought back my serious interest in watching Ergo Proxy, although I wonder if I could maintain it given the fact that there isn't any this week, and if you're correct about what you said, then the episode I'm really probably waiting for is Anamnesis.

Although the henshin is weird, not to mention easily figured out, really, at least they brought something new to the limelight - questioning the true (currently) tenuous relationships between the main characters. We don't know why Daedalus more or less cares for Real, or why Vincent seemingly loves Real. But I know it could have had been smoother animation with a smoother plot.

Henshin just is a deux-et-machina technique for me ... it answers without explaining anything, but perhaps that's what they want - for now. It still doesn't make it really acceptable, but at least because of Aniki, I plan to try watching it in a serious and bleak SF light, not in a funny one.

It was a good post by a forumer when he or she said that the focus shifts to why there are proxies ... but he or she has forgotten that resolution among the different characters themselves is also essential for the viewer to appreciate the series. The question isn't what anymore, it's why.

Seriously, now that we've discovered who Ergo is ... we _do_ know how much Vincent really cares for or loves Real.

Although I can't seriously say I'll be 100% wrong - I trust that I would get some parts correct, I do know most of these hypotheses are wrong, but they're only guesses after all.

Aniki, thank you very much.

Zaresh · 2006-05-01, 18:01

About the Lir-clone theory:

Spoiler:

Ah! Aniki, thank you so much ^^.

physics223 · 2006-05-01, 18:56

It's more now of answering the hows and whys because for the most part the whos and whats have been answered.

For now, all we really know is that there is something special abou Real. She is totally different from the other thoughtless and singular people of Romdeau: she has discernment and will. If she was a clone ... oh yeah, good point, Zar ... she wouldn't normally have those characteristics. She is the speck of disorder in an otherwise perfect city; yet she exists. Why?

Zaresh · 2006-05-01, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by physics223

It's more now of answering the hows and whys because for the most part the whos and whats have been answered.

For now, all we really know is that there is something special abou Real. She is totally different from the other thoughtless and singular people of Romdeau: she has discernment and will. If she was a clone ... oh yeah, good point, Zar ... she wouldn't normally have those characteristics. She is the speck of disorder in an otherwise perfect city; yet she exists. Why?

Yep, so she said in ep.1. As well as Vincent, she doesn´t feel like she was a needed factor in Rondo, like the praies of the infected autoreivs. They both fail to adapt theirself in the "Rondo System". But while Real looks like accept she is a misfit (as long as she is in his department, when she has a "funny" job), Vincent has nightmares about his problem. She, as Vincent, is special, she doesn´t fit in Rondo but why? And contrary of those commune guys, she is really important to Rondo. But Real isn´t scrapped out Rondo, moreover, Daedalus and Raul looking for her (although she would be a risk to Rondo Perfect System). This special factor in the case of Vincent is the thing which is bothering Raul, I guess (higher than the riot he caused in Rondo).

I´m not sure if I´ve posted this point here in AnimeSuki (xD) but I agree with you.

physics223 · 2006-05-02, 08:25

I just noticed that there are a lot of good shows not airing in Japan because of Golden Week. Does this mean that TV networks shut themselves down for a while for some sort of mini-vacation?

Anyway, back to Ergo Proxy. Did anyone ever think that Real's childhood was implanted in her, that's why Daedalus had access to her childhood photos? Maybe not implanted, but controlled perhaps to let her forget her real past. And this isn't implausible: we, as children, are blank slates. We'll believe anything people say as long as it leaves or etches marks on us. I mean, childhood itself is private and sacred: we did a lot of things we forgot in childhood, and videos or photographs are the only ones that could preserve it. So if Daedalus has Real's private, childhood pictures, there is definitely more to him than meets the eye - and that something more is definitely not to be trusted.

To continue: has anyone thought of the idea that Vince and Real may be childhood buddies from Moscow? Maybe she was taken as spoils when Moscow was annihilated, and Donov took her and grew her up in a sanitized and empty environment. She feels empty and displaced because maybe she is? The precious moments of childhood often endure throughout our lifetime, and maybe that's where Vince had her love for Real that lasted until the current occurrences.

Disclaimer: as always, all of these are speculations.

If anything, we now know that Vincent loves Real, and that's no speculation. At least part of my hypotheses (like Vincent loving Real) is proven correct.

molitar · 2006-05-02, 23:02

Well just finished watching the first 7 episodes and I am speculating at this time that Real is not really dead. Probably figures it would allow her to investigate anonmously without being followed and tracked. Especially since her Auto-Reive forget his name now is no longer a part of the surveilance system.

physics223 · 2006-05-02, 23:15

You may have forgotten that Daedalus himself has ulterior motives. I don't think he'd help Real for the sake of being a 'good friend.' I'm half-speculating that he only plays with Real: he's too sly and wily to be a scrupulous person ...

He may have said that Raul sent those autoreivs, but you may have also forgotten that he is among the scientists developing these autoreivs, investigating on these proxies, and the like. I won't trust him too much ... I don't expect him to really help Real.

I'm also speculating Real not to be dead, but to be some freak proxy experiment under the depraved mind of Daedalus. And that shota-look ... scary ...

EDIT: I feel my denigrating belief in Ergo Proxy come back .... vvvvvvVOLTES FIVE!!! hahahaha!!!

2006-04-30, 13:03	Link #541
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	They really didn't do too well on Vincent's face this episode ... that's what I saw. This show is still among the best of 2006, but I doubt that it's as good as the previous Manglobe productions: Samurai Champloo and Rozen Maiden: Traumend . Still, I shouldn't be so conclusive and narrow-minded while still at episode nine, and that's why I plan to watch through all of this show. I do have a problem with the HENSHIN thing. Call me nitpicky, but there could have been some more subtler ways that I did not think of. Anyway, the fight scenes still are beautiful, but I seriously have a problem with his face ... It's not that this show is bad, it's just disappointing when you have that kind of kickass first episode but are unable to maintain the quality of it. I know 23-episodes are a lot of work and use a lot of time to get done, but at least I could argue that Mushishi had a lesser budget than this show (correct me if I'm wrong) but had more consistent animation ... it's just that ... if they knew how to start properly, they should know how to maintain the show well as well. MAHOU 戦隊 VINCENTO~TAN! HENSHIN! the tune of Voltes Five plays I laughed through the fights, though. When you look at the absurdity of it all, you could really laugh hard ... especially with the beautiful rabu~rabu (!!!) parallelism that BluWacky used to describe Vincent's dedication to Real ... this is just a more seriously absurd Ouran. I remembered when I watched Ouran that time I almost choked because of the funny way it was portrayed. Plus with all the quirky Mahou Shounen and Pokemon allusions, it's hard not to laugh through it all. When I watched Spoiler: Kazukhis Hower I was reminded of Bleach's Shunsui Kyouraku. Both are long-haired, powerful bastards that like to drink a whole lot of wine ... now if only Senex looked like Nanao Ise XD __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color! Last edited by physics223; 2006-04-30 at 14:45.

2006-04-30, 22:38	Link #543
Deacon Blues Supreme Grocer Scanlator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico	LoL... Real will be another one... then her and Vincent can shack up and have a proxy orgy... __________________ 「では、人間は、何故、戦うのか？戦うことに存在意義があるのかもしれない。戦っている人間には充実感がある。そして、戦っている人間が汚れて見えないのも事実だ」 So why do people fight, anyway? Perhaps the meaning of existence lies within their will to fight. People feel a sense of accomplishment through battle. And it’s also a fact that the ones actually fighting are never perceived as being tainted.

2006-04-30, 22:43	Link #544
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	Anyway, they are hot guys, so even if my android dreams become a proxy ... COOL. This is turning into Ouran. Seriously funny ... XD ORGY! ORGY! ORGY! ORGY! mmm! __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-04-30, 23:37	Link #545
Zaresh Caperucita Roja Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Over the rainbow	Damn ! The damnest thing is... Spoiler: Except some draws (specially some vincent designs and his freaking eyes freaking bad drawed) this ep. was good, and the damn (sorry) whole "metamorphosis" approach was well explained. Fight scene was well edited and so on. And I´m really sad because Vincent fellings though I can´t understand japanesse (in addition, even I know now why it´s "ergo proxy" his owncalled nickname). So, yep, I liked this one a lot, was awesome. I´m waiting for next ep. to have news of Real (is she a proxy or not? is she still alive as a human?). But... but... Damn ! I´m weird now, happy and disappointed in a same way. And I can´t explain it in my poor english, neither in my native spanish. I´m still shook. The poor fool was remembered Lir all the time. So cute, and so sad and dramatic. And so painful as well (ufff, that transformation thing hurts and now he Knows who was the stranger in her house and, er... pervert xD). No, I´m serous now. actualy Vincent now knows he was "him", and we know he was him. but we still don´t know why he, or better said, Ergo, was crying and even staing (more or less) quiet there. I definitively going to watch this anime, even if It doesn´t surprise me episode to episode or drawing and animation are weird and irregular. I´m certainly interested in whatever would be. EP still is one of the best anime series currently and I´m enjoying with it. (but my plot was more amazing xD, I´m sure. Bleh...). Orgy?... Orgy !! Orgy !! Last edited by Zaresh; 2006-04-30 at 23:48.

2006-05-01, 00:31	Link #546
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	I feel what you feel. Of course I was disappointed (and still am) that Ergo Proxy didn't reach the level of its hype, but seriously ... I was happy. Really, really, happy. I mean when he Spoiler: fought as Ergo because of that psychedelic blue appearance of Real, I sure laughed hard LMAO ... an SF love story that uses henshin - what could be more absurd? IMHO xD it was so fucking funny ... I mean it practically parodies Ouran, all the Mahou Shounens and sentais out there, and now, Bleach - Kazukhis Hower xxxD = Kyouraku ... !!! This is a show that is funny ... really, really, really funny ... !!! A! I know who will be the orgy-players! Real, Vincent, Daedalus ... and PINO!?!?!?!?!?! xD __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-05-01, 01:07	Link #547
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	Chikyuu Sentai VINCENTO~TAN! ~ 地球戦隊 VINCENTO~TAN! Spoiler for I AM t3h p0w3rz! I pwn j00 a11: I HAVE THE POWER!!! xD I LMAO'd when this appeared ... __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-05-01, 02:09	Link #549
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	It isn't serious anymore ... it's gotten absurdly funny! No, Raul wouldn't agree because Pino's his daughter? But he'd take Real away from Vincent ... supposedly for 'examination' purposes ... XD Ergo Proxy is the jack-of-all-SF-anime! It dabbles in almost everything. It's simply the best parody anime of the season xxD! It's not wao's 'proxyball, I choose you!' ~ they've gotten simpler. It's I am t3h m4h0u sh0un3n w/ t3h p0w3r 2 pwn j00 all sux00rzz ... ! It's BEAST WARS ~ TRANSFORMERS! Back to SERIOUS MODE ... (for a little while) ... anyway, the nomenclature as of now of the different characters so far bear little to describe them or their actions. These words are merely hints ... to something simple xxD ... I do like the anime even more ... this is just excellent shit! EDIT: Try muting the media player you use in opening Ergo Proxy, and then open another instance of the player and play the Voltes Five theme song. You'd laugh your ass out ... especially the later part ... =D __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-05-01, 12:55	Link #550
kron Member Join Date: Dec 2005	so.. the discussion thread of ergo proxy has some of the most retarded discussions with people repeating the same thing over and over again... for the last 2 pages at least... k...

2006-05-01, 14:24	Link #551
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	When you look beneath it all, Ergo Proxy is still an anime. So far, I'm pretty disappointed in it (so far are the keywords), but I don't think our retarded discussions offend anybody at all. Aside from the fact that I personally think Ergo Proxy is retardedly funny, I personally think it works for me as a serious SF with comedic elements ... I do hope it would work for me as an SF, so until that happens or until Real appears in Cytotropism or Anamnesis, I think it's alright for me to make fun of this show, because it is funny, when you really think of it ... (or just have a twisted sense of humor like mine). __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-05-01, 15:38	Link #552
Aniki Meiski Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Episode 8 & 9 Quick Summary Major Spoiler on Vincent Spoiler: Episode 8 Shining Signs Vincent and Pino are travelling to Mosco. All the commune survivors are all dead by now. On the way, they get caught in a crossfire between human soldiers and Autoraves. Ther are rescued by a group of human soldiers and are taken back to their base. The base is situated inside a tower in the middle of the ruins of Halos Dome City. Vincent is starving and is busy shoving tin food into his mouth. The base commander Patecatl and his aide Omacatl (P&O) are interested in recruiting Vincent and plan to refit the "rabbit" boat the "Centzon" for military purpose. It turns out that these soldiers are clone soldiers and have been fighting a war of attrition against the Autorave soldiers from Asura City for such a long time that no one know what's the purpose behind it. They think that the autorave soldiers are going to destroy their human cloning facilities. Vincent is not that keen to join in. He gets out of the room to find a toilet as he feels sick after eating too much tin food. Meanawhile, there's a talk about a monster living down below the tower. A female Proxy has been killing the soldiers one by one behind the scenes. Unable to think of any suspects, P&O lock up Vincent and Pino. The mad woman (Mayahuel) in the next cell is chanting about awakening, and about "the Master (suggesting Vince/Ergo Proxy or Kazukisu) will come" in a creepy sexual way. Pino starts to join in the chanting. This drives Vincent crazy. The base soldiers suddenly find themselves in a 2 prong attack. The Autoraves break in and destroy the cloning facilities, release the prisoners (Maya, Pino, Vincent). Meanwhile the female proxy starts to kill off all the remaining soldiers. The base commander Patecatl abandons his men and tries to escape in a helicopter. The female proxy jumps aboard, kill everyone inside the chopper, and crashes the helicopter down the shaft inside the tower, right on top where Maya is standing. As the helicopter is falling down on Maya's head, Maya calls out the name of the female proxy "SENEKISU, the Proxy of moonlight". (Don't bother trying to find out what Senekisu, or Kazukisu really means, I don't think they mean anything.) Then Maya finds herself on the floor impaled by a rotor blade. She seems to be connected to the female proxy (Senekisu Proxy, the Proxy of Moonlight). Suddenly Ergo Proxy appears out of the burning crash site. This is followed by a fight between Ergo and Senekisu and some massive light exchange between the 2 proxies. A blond man arrives at the scene only to find Senekisu and Mayahuel dead and Vincent unconscious. Episode 9 Angel's Share Vincent wakes up and finds himself in Asura Dome City, inside a similar tower. The owner (the same blond man) introduces himself as Kazukisu Hauer. Pino gets scared after seeing a warehouse full of deactivated Autoraves soldiers (look like medival knights in armor) and tries to convince Vincent to leave the place. Vincent unfortunately is a bit too tipsy after drinking with Kazukisu, to respond to Pino. So Pino stays inside the "Rabbit" boat counting rabbits for the entire episode. Kazukis invites Vincent for a meal (lunch, dinner, breakfast??). This time Vincent barely touches the food. He ask Kazukisu the reason for sending in Autorave soldiers (Knights) to attack the clone soldiers. Kazukisu says that those soldiers deserve to be cleansed. Then he says a bit more about the soldiers which probably no one cares about, like there were humans in both Asura and Halos city a long time ago. However the citizens were all wiped out in a conflict and the Knights (autoraves soldiers) were the only one left, and a handful of clone soldiers. Then he talks about Senekisu. He fell in love with the female proxy from the last episode. As proof of their vows to each other, both of them built an identical tower in their own city, Kazukisu in Asura City and Senekisu in Halos City. They are supposed to reunite after awakening from sleep. But then Vincent killed Senekisu. Kazukis then gets extremely upset that Vincent can't even remember a thing. Then Kazukis figures out that Vincent has lost his memory. He asks what happened to him back in Mosco (approximately 20 years ago). But Vincent can't recall anything. Then he says the following things. 1) Vincent knew Monad then. 2) Vincent back then deliberately wiped out all his memories. 3) Vincent some how transfer his memories to Monad (through exchange of light thing?) 4) This was a risky procedure for Monad. 5) Monad was aware of the risk 5) Monad did it for love (for Vincent/Ergo?) (We still don't know Monad's gender) 6) In doing so, Monad lost Vincent/Ergo 7) In doing so Vincent also lost himself. 8) Vincent as Ergo Proxy killed Senekisu and then wiped his own memory clean. 9) Vincent is a traitor 10) It's unforgiveable for Vincent to kill Senekisu and not even bother to remember it. 11) Vincent also killed Monad in similar way Then Kazukis in a moment of rage transforms into Proxy (Kazukisu Proxy, Proxy of Radiance) instantaneously complete with mask and X-men spandex costume and activates the autoraves to attack Vincent, in the hope of turning Vincent back into Ergo Proxy. He tries shooting Vincent in the stomach and zapping with light. Vincent partially transforms into Proxy but he still can't remember what he did to Senekisu. It seems that there is some strange connection between proxies and autoraves, like Kazukisu's ability to control the Knights and Pino's attachment to Vincent. In the end Vincent returns complete with the mask, but still in Vincent's voice to confront Kazukisu. Kazukisu gives up and decides to kill Vincent whether he remembers his "crimes" or not. Vincent sees a flashing blue image of Lilu in his head, and regains his power and impales Kazukisu with his arm. Before he dies, Kazukisu ask Vincent again what kind of Proxy is he. Then Vincent says in Ergo's voice, "My name is Ergo Proxy, the Proxy of Death." Kazukisu lets himself to be burnt in flames. Before he dies, he curses Vincent that someday his eyes will be burnt by the light of truth, and he will know the eternal darkness. For that will be his day of judgement. This is followed by the usual Vince's angsty monologue "I am not human?". By the time he gets back on the boat, Pino has already counted 400 rabbits, which is also the name of their boat, The "400 Rabbits", Centzon Totochtin. The Pino says that the blood on Vincent's face is not Vince's blood, but someone else's, not Vincent, but another "Vincent". Vincent then realizes that Pino already know Vincent's true identity. Pino tells Vincent that she is not afraid of him as he always helps her. This episode ends with a moment of bonding between Vince and Pino. I wonder whether it was Vince rather than Monad who infected Pino. Pino's the week after next week's preview: Cytotropism "See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil." Monkeys I hope this will not transform into: See no Lilu, hear no Lilu, speak no Lilu. Conclusion: This is again a very complicated episode scripted by Yuko Kawabe, just like episode 6. It starts to explore whether our memories define us as humans, or is there something else? So Vincent has been a very bad boy. What was his involvement in Mosco invasion and destruction 20 years ago? In episode 6, Hoody told Vincent to take the Toy Soldier to Mosco. Did Hoody take part in the Mosco invasion? Did that clock in the shopping mall come from Mosco? In episode 7, Kristeva found out that the rabbit boat was used as a long distance transport during Mosco invasion. So, are any other similar boats abandoned nearby. I hope Pino and Lilu will be Vincent's ticket to redemption. Last edited by Aniki Meiski; 2006-05-02 at 11:29.

2006-05-01, 16:06	Link #553
nubby Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Boston, MA	Crazy theory but what if Monad was the real Lil/Rel/Real and the current one is some sort of clone? It might explain why Vincent is so attracted to Lil and maybe why Daedalus is in charge of the Monad experiment. How about Ergo proxy trying to awaken Lil in episode one? I'm probably 100% wrong tho

2006-05-01, 18:01	Link #555
Zaresh Caperucita Roja Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Over the rainbow	About the Lir-clone theory: Spoiler: I must remaind you that she is in fact a relative of Donov. Donov autorevs tell him (in ep.3 I think) who would she´s got his temper. Therefore, she is his truly family (created, I guess. I´m thinking in Ep. 7), but maybe she is some sort of proxy (which would be able to give us hopes to see her alive and in one piece). Now this show should go to the Why question more than the Who question. Why he is a proxy, why he was in Rondo, why he left Moscow, why Moscow was destroyed, even why the outside is in devastation. Why Daedalus is so obsessed about Lir as well, why proxyes are killing humans so easily, why the clone soldiers, why the citizens of Rondo are so SO alike and anodyne (this one is easy: order. But order why?), why proxys are, why autoreivs are infected with the cogito ill when they meet proxyes,... But some "what" questions too, like whats a proxy or what happened in the past. Is there in the outside world many other cities like Rondo, Moscow,... which aren´t collapsed ? Ah! Aniki, thank you so much ^^.

2006-05-01, 18:56	Link #556
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	It's more now of answering the hows and whys because for the most part the whos and whats have been answered. For now, all we really know is that there is something special abou Real. She is totally different from the other thoughtless and singular people of Romdeau: she has discernment and will. If she was a clone ... oh yeah, good point, Zar ... she wouldn't normally have those characteristics. She is the speck of disorder in an otherwise perfect city; yet she exists. Why? __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-05-02, 08:25	Link #558
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	I just noticed that there are a lot of good shows not airing in Japan because of Golden Week. Does this mean that TV networks shut themselves down for a while for some sort of mini-vacation? Anyway, back to Ergo Proxy. Did anyone ever think that Real's childhood was implanted in her, that's why Daedalus had access to her childhood photos? Maybe not implanted, but controlled perhaps to let her forget her real past. And this isn't implausible: we, as children, are blank slates. We'll believe anything people say as long as it leaves or etches marks on us. I mean, childhood itself is private and sacred: we did a lot of things we forgot in childhood, and videos or photographs are the only ones that could preserve it. So if Daedalus has Real's private, childhood pictures, there is definitely more to him than meets the eye - and that something more is definitely not to be trusted. To continue: has anyone thought of the idea that Vince and Real may be childhood buddies from Moscow? Maybe she was taken as spoils when Moscow was annihilated, and Donov took her and grew her up in a sanitized and empty environment. She feels empty and displaced because maybe she is? The precious moments of childhood often endure throughout our lifetime, and maybe that's where Vince had her love for Real that lasted until the current occurrences. Disclaimer: as always, all of these are speculations. If anything, we now know that Vincent loves Real, and that's no speculation. At least part of my hypotheses (like Vincent loving Real) is proven correct. __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-05-02, 23:02	Link #559
molitar Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	Well just finished watching the first 7 episodes and I am speculating at this time that Real is not really dead. Probably figures it would allow her to investigate anonmously without being followed and tracked. Especially since her Auto-Reive forget his name now is no longer a part of the surveilance system.

2006-05-02, 23:15	Link #560
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	You may have forgotten that Daedalus himself has ulterior motives. I don't think he'd help Real for the sake of being a 'good friend.' I'm half-speculating that he only plays with Real: he's too sly and wily to be a scrupulous person ... He may have said that Raul sent those autoreivs, but you may have also forgotten that he is among the scientists developing these autoreivs, investigating on these proxies, and the like. I won't trust him too much ... I don't expect him to really help Real. I'm also speculating Real not to be dead, but to be some freak proxy experiment under the depraved mind of Daedalus. And that shota-look ... scary ... EDIT: I feel my denigrating belief in Ergo Proxy come back .... vvvvvvVOLTES FIVE!!! hahahaha!!! __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color! Last edited by physics223; 2006-05-03 at 08:47.