[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Inbuiltx9]

Originally Posted by Leslie Chow

But Ange is not even part of the catbox and is a piece of a higher plane (Bernkastel). Plus, if Battler entered his piece in the story, then he should have stopped the murders from happening in later games. Also in EP5, Piece Battler wasn't controlled by Meta-Battler but by Bernkastel.

Oho Ange IS part of the catbox. Her future is determined depending on what is assumed to be the truth in Prime. And Battler was Bernkastels piece in the beginning too.
"Plus, if Battler entered his piece in the story, then he should have stopped the murders from happening in later games."
This is the first time I heard a good argument against my understanding Maybe I should explain it like its said in the novel itself: its not words or anything, its a direct concept that is "transmitted" into their head. They can control their pieces than as far as possible, but Battler still has an adversary - that is Beato, that controls other pieces.
And its not like Battler really knew how to stop the murders, he makes his move, Beato makes her move. When its her turn, he cant really do much. Anyways, I guess this Pieces-Player-relationship is difficult, and there are bound to be some inconsistencies. So Id rather leave it here.

It is the same as acknowledging that the culprit was the witch. A witch because she could use magic. Magic, is a phenomenon that cannot be explained, but is possible through human tricks.

And the questions that he asked later on at 11:30 PM.

http://mangafox.me/manga/umineko_no_...5/c025/35.html

Note that he even asked what the true nature of magic is, as well as the motive.

Then she began to answer all of Battler's questions and everything made sense and was able to accept everything. Given that Battler learned the true nature of magic, he was able to accept Beato as a witch.

I get what you mean, but asking this doesnt mean Beato supplied the true answer. Im just going to explain what Beato does: by constructing the cat-box and hiding the corpses, there will never be a clear decision for who the culprit is. With that, Beato is buying time-its an argument of claims that goes back and forth, back and forth, like Ronove said in ep 3, there wont be a check-mate. Im not inventing this purpose of the cat-box, it is explicitly stated in ep 5. If she ever admits that no witch exists, the whole game self-destructs. Those are all very important questions Battler asks, no doubt about it, especially the "why did you call me here?" but Beato doesnt say the truth.

"Battler learned the true nature of magic, he was able to accept Beato as a witch."
The thing is: once Battler learns of the true nature of magic, the game ends. Thats the end-goal of the game. Battler was able to use magic long ago, but he lost this ability and fell to hell. He also wouldnt be that "numb" after hearing the truth from Beato. When Battler learns the truth in ep 5, he is able to use the golden truth and becomes the territory-lord. Completely the opposite of his slave-like-existence of his piece in ep 2. He got his bad-ending there. That is succumbing to the witch.

Keep in mind that after Rosa collected all five master keys and called the servants furniture, Beatrice says in red: If you accept me, all of the riddles will be resolved.

As an example, saying that "I used my magic wand to turn Kanon's corpse into a demon" is not resolving the riddle of the disappearance of Kanon's corpse. Not only that, but it contradicts the very definition of magic.

Thus Battler in EP2 learned EVERYTHING and is the one most likely to become Tohya Hachijo.

Hehe, I guess this red truth is really referring to a much deeper truth: In ep 2, he succumbs to the witch, in ep 5, he accepts her in the truest sense- he knows that magic is a trick and he still doesnt give up on it - thats why he is able to use the golden truth. At this point, when he accepts Beato all the riddles are resolved, and I mean ALL the riddles, not just the ones on the game-board, but also the question what happened in reality.

Well the game is still between Meta-Battler and Meta-Beato. In the meta-world, we see Meta-Battler in this state, after Rosa told piece-Battler that there are more than five master keys:

http://www.mangareader.net/umineko-n...pisode-2/22/19

He at this point stopped thinking, gave up and lost control of his piece and everything ran its course.

Also, in Piece-Battler's case, he was technically spoon-fed the answers and didn't come to the answers on his own. Because of this, I could still say with absolute certainty that the game is between Meta-Battler and Meta-Beatrice, since obviously Meta-Battler had no way at the time could have known what Piece-Beatrice said to Piece-Battler. Why? Because as I pointed out, the connection between Piece-Battler and Meta-Battler was lost at around the time Rosa called the servants furniture and Beatrice saying in the Meta-World that there are five master keys.

"Because as I pointed out, the connection between Piece-Battler and Meta-Battler was lost at around the time Rosa called the servants furniture and Beatrice saying in the Meta-World that there are five master keys." How do you come to this conclusion?

Also, I might as well add that from this page:

http://mangafox.me/manga/umineko_no_...5/c025/42.html

It is said that "when the king is defeated and one player surrenders, all that is left is to reflect on the moves that were made". Obviously Meta-Battler is the player that surrendered, and he could only reflect on the moves that he made, not the moves that moved independently (Piece-Battler).

He can also reflect on the moves Beato made, cant he? He does so in ep 5 after all.

http://badlydrawnumineko.tumblr.com/...-theory-i-dont

Sorry can't help it. :P

No no, I always like reading theories. But right now my internet is bad again, it doesnt load So Ill answer to that later.

[AuraTwilight]

You know, Inbuilt, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or anything like that? I've always played devil's advocate and hard-ass to help people refine their ideas and arguments into their best possible form, Beatrice-style. I keep harping on this point because your posts get REAAALLY TL;DR, especially to non-english speakers like me, who have a hard time understanding some of your sentences or mentally correcting your grammar and punctuation mistakes. This is why I mentioned spoiler-tagging your posts into sections, by the way, because it makes it easier to break up and digest your information.

You, of course, responded by misgendering me, speaking to me patronizing me, and writing me off as not being your intended audience. I didn't mention anything of it at the time but apparently you'll make a habit of this so that was revoked.

I keep harping on this point of you not supporting your arguments properly because you zone in on really specific wording and turns of phrases that are symbolic or thematic at best, and trying to interpret them literally when there's a huge language barrier that will distort all of this.

I keep harping on this point because the reasonings you use are very similar in methodology to a famous Umineko theorist who's so deadset on Rosatrice he thinks Ryukishi is lying to the audience when he directly says otherwise.

I keep harping on these things because you 'establish' these points and then use them as evidence or scaffolds for other points, because if THIS is true then THAT is true and THIS can't be NOT true. You write these huge essay posts but then I ask how you've proven your earliest points because the reasoning isn't convincing or well explained, and well.

We all saw what I got.

By the way, that made me LOL. You know why? Because I'm actually acquainted with Ryukishi enough to have had conversations with him. I don't lord it though and I have no special insight, but the idea that I lag behind anyone on this forum is laughable.

[Leslie Chow]

but Beato doesnt say the truth.

The narration said she CLEARLY did. While she might only tell everything what happened in game 2 timeline, taking into consideration the releases of forgeries, CotGW and Tohya's memories, it wouldn't be too hard for him and Ikuko to go through each game and deduce how they were done. After all, Ikuko did say that Tohya gives the ideas then she writes everything with her writing skills. Also, by explaining the motive, it is most likely that message bottles are mentioned as well.

When Battler learns the truth in ep 5, he is able to use the golden truth and becomes the territory-lord. Completely the opposite of his slave-like-existence of his piece in ep 2. He got his bad-ending there. That is succumbing to the witch.

Meta-Battler did by looking back on past moves and using Knox's Decalogue. His Piece, which was already out of his control and the game at that point ending and left to run its course with the Meta-characters and obviously the viewers watching, are not their moves. So even though Piece-Battler knew everything, Meta-Battler didn't. Also, by that point in the game (Rosa calling furnitures), the game ended, Meta-Beatrice won, and moves after this (or events following the Rosa scene) are NOT the moves of their Meta counterparts. It just seems the game ended at 12:00 AM but in EP2, I don't think that is the case at all, since earlier on Battler gave up. It is almost like playing a game with a timer, one player surrenders, and by default the other wins. However, since there is a timer technically the game isn't over yet, although the players at that point stopped playing. Therefore the game ran its course.

"Because as I pointed out, the connection between Piece-Battler and Meta-Battler was lost at around the time Rosa called the servants furniture and Beatrice saying in the Meta-World that there are five master keys." How do you come to this conclusion?

Because it seems to me like in the meta-sense, the game has ended. Like earlier, we see Meta-Battler so bent on denying Beato that even as early as when the group arrived in Jessica's room, Piece-Battler, gave up already, which is also a reflection on Meta-Battler's moves. Not only that, but after that, Battler didn't even continue rejecting Beato, he was more emotional and pretty much on the verge on surrendering, and after the scene with Rosa calling servants furniture, he pretty much gave up and that was the last meta-scene in the game prior to midnight. I could also say that Meta-Beatrice lost control of her piece and the game continued, without the influence of meta-characters, since for them at least, the chess game is over. All that happens afterwards are pieces moving on their own, not their moves.

You remember Battlers ep 5: I believe the truth can only be found with one eye believing and one denying?"
That is Ryukishis hint that tells us: Read the text- in a literal sense and in a metaphorical-both at the same time and youll find the truth

I recently borrowed the last volume of EP4 from a library in my area and you are right about this. Ryukishi himself flat out admits in the afterword of EP4 manga Yen Press release that in order to find the truth you need an eye without love and an eye with love. So yeah what Willard said about the four games being solvable on its own is true.

I keep harping on this point because the reasonings you use are very similar in methodology to a famous Umineko theorist who's so deadset on Rosatrice he thinks Ryukishi is lying to the audience when he directly says otherwise.

Are you referring to KNM? Not that I am defending him or anything, but he did claim that he had holes in his theory and even if he is wrong, he would admit it as long as there is proof of it within the story. It is not like he is attacking anyone. So I don't think he is so deadset on Rosatrice. If anything, it is the fanboys themselves who are deadset on Rosatrice, not him. To a certain extent I could also say that some Sayotrice fanboys also add fuel to the fire by using the author's authority so much. Last time I remember there are still loopholes in the story that would allow Rosatrice, making it a valid alternative solution, manga version included. Also, unlike with the official explanation, it doesn't involve twisting the red truth (e.g. number of people = number of names). All in all, I think it is close-mindedness on both sides that the Umineko fandom is divided in the first place when in fact it shouldn't be. Plus I think Ryukishi would love to hear the Rosatrice theory, even if it is not his intended solution. Rosatrice in a nutshell: the game of cheese in EP6. As for his methodology, he isn't even close to Inbuilt's analyses.

[Inbuiltx9]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

You know, Inbuilt, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or anything like that? I've always played devil's advocate and hard-ass to help people refine their ideas and arguments into their best possible form, Beatrice-style. I keep harping on this point because your posts get REAAALLY TL;DR, especially to non-english speakers like me, who have a hard time understanding some of your sentences or mentally correcting your grammar and punctuation mistakes. This is why I mentioned spoiler-tagging your posts into sections, by the way, because it makes it easier to break up and digest your information.

You, of course, responded by misgendering me, speaking to me patronizing me, and writing me off as not being your intended audience. I didn't mention anything of it at the time but apparently you'll make a habit of this so that was revoked.

I keep harping on this point of you not supporting your arguments properly because you zone in on really specific wording and turns of phrases that are symbolic or thematic at best, and trying to interpret them literally when there's a huge language barrier that will distort all of this.

I keep harping on this point because the reasonings you use are very similar in methodology to a famous Umineko theorist who's so deadset on Rosatrice he thinks Ryukishi is lying to the audience when he directly says otherwise.

I keep harping on these things because you 'establish' these points and then use them as evidence or scaffolds for other points, because if THIS is true then THAT is true and THIS can't be NOT true. You write these huge essay posts but then I ask how you've proven your earliest points because the reasoning isn't convincing or well explained, and well.

We all saw what I got.

By the way, that made me LOL. You know why? Because I'm actually acquainted with Ryukishi enough to have had conversations with him. I don't lord it though and I have no special insight, but the idea that I lag behind anyone on this forum is laughable.

So once again: even I have to LOL at this post right now. Yesterday, I was blowing a fuse, and I certainly should have tried to calm down before actually posting it. Im the coleric type. Nowadays, I rarely get angry at all, but if I get angry it gets really really bad and the result was the post from yesterday, which was more insulting and more blowing of steam than any form of argumentation. I regret posting it and I apologize.

But with all that said. You say you're playing devils advocate and I actually dont mind that you try correcting mistakes. I WANT to be corrected if Im wrong somewhere. But theres a big difference in saying: "Could you work on your punctuation and stuff "and saying "this is all a spastic mess."My mother tongue isnt English either, so I still lack the feeling for the language, cause I only use the English I learnt at school a long time ago. What I indeed do mind is the tone in your posts. And I dont think I will ever get used to that, sorry. I dont even want to have to deal with this. I want to post in a forum to have fun, I dont want this to become a serious issue, cause its a hobby. I tried to overlook it quite a few times, but your answers are stressful to me - its not fun. Thats why I suggested that you just overlook my posts.

Apart from that - I dont agree with any of your points, since I thoroughly provided the arguments and clues. There is rarely any scene which I interpret literally. There was this one word in my post: "fatal", that I used to further! strengthen my claim, but this was the weakest in a string of arguments. I guess you didnt open the spoiler, because in there, there were all the other stronger arguments. I would never use a single word to base a whole interpretation on it. Im always taking clues from various scenes at the same time, and see if they fit or not. And whatever you might say - I dont contradict Ryukishi and keep forcing my interpretation, it falls into place all on its own. And I dont really doubt my theory anymore. Apart from that though, I do understand Japanese, the barrier isnt there whenever I hear the voices, so I can sometimes even rely on words a bit.

Let me summarize please. I once again apologize for the stupid and childish post. And I still think you're taking a discussion far too seriously, and its not fun for me to write with you. And I dont consider any of your points to be valid in your counterarguments. Since with the last posts, that were really long, Ive written almost everything down that I wanted to write down, the next ones will be far shorter and easier for you to overlook I hope. So if its fine with you, Id really like to get over this stupid quarrel and just end it with this post, ok?

[Apaula]

Every time I read a reply from Inbuilt I kind of laugh and just stopped reading his theories because they're kind of hilarious.

[Inbuiltx9]

Originally Posted by Leslie Chow

The narration said she CLEARLY did. While she might only tell everything what happened in game 2 timeline, taking into consideration the releases of forgeries, CotGW and Tohya's memories, it wouldn't be too hard for him and Ikuko to go through each game and deduce how they were done. After all, Ikuko did say that Tohya gives the ideas then she writes everything with her writing skills. Also, by explaining the motive, it is most likely that message bottles are mentioned as well.

Could you mention this scene where it says Beato tells the truth? I cant say anything write now because I dont remember this scene very clearly.

Meta-Battler did by looking back on past moves and using Knox's Decalogue. His Piece, which was already out of his control and the game at that point ending and left to run its course with the Meta-characters and obviously the viewers watching, are not their moves. So even though Piece-Battler knew everything, Meta-Battler didn't. Also, by that point in the game (Rosa calling furnitures), the game ended, Meta-Beatrice won, and moves after this (or events following the Rosa scene) are NOT the moves of their Meta counterparts. It just seems the game ended at 12:00 AM but in EP2, I don't think that is the case at all, since earlier on Battler gave up. It is almost like playing a game with a timer, one player surrenders, and by default the other wins. However, since there is a timer technically the game isn't over yet, although the players at that point stopped playing. Therefore the game ran its course.

But I dont get where you find the clues in the text to support your claim?
This for example

"Also, by that point in the game (Rosa calling furnitures), the game ended, Meta-Beatrice won, and moves after this (or events following the Rosa scene) are NOT the moves of their Meta counterparts."

Beatrice appeared in ep 4 before Battler too. I dont know where you base this on? And I also think the last straw was Rosa saying that he probably isnt Ushiromiya Battler. Ill have to take a look at the scene again, but I dont think there is anything supporting that their connection was lost. In fact, in ep 5 Bern says Beato would have already shown what happens to losers in her games, they are ripped apart by goats. The loser is not Piece-Battler but Meta-Battler, because the piece is only, well, his piece...

Because it seems to me like in the meta-sense, the game has ended. Like earlier, we see Meta-Battler so bent on denying Beato that even as early as when the group arrived in Jessica's room, Piece-Battler, gave up already, which is also a reflection on Meta-Battler's moves. Not only that, but after that, Battler didn't even continue rejecting Beato, he was more emotional and pretty much on the verge on surrendering, and after the scene with Rosa calling servants furniture, he pretty much gave up and that was the last meta-scene in the game prior to midnight. I could also say that Meta-Beatrice lost control of her piece and the game continued, without the influence of meta-characters, since for them at least, the chess game is over. All that happens afterwards are pieces moving on their own, not their moves.

Whenever the game ends before 24h, its said to have been abandoned. This happens in ep 5 and in ep 6. In ep 4, Beato says that she wants to leave the game, and everything would just pause. The pieces would remain where they are, for all eternity, on the chess-board. The game doesnt really move on. Or Battler could just happily play with himself, figuring out what the truth is

I recently borrowed the last volume of EP4 from a library in my area and you are right about this. Ryukishi himself flat out admits in the afterword of EP4 manga Yen Press release that in order to find the truth you need an eye without love and an eye with love. So yeah what Willard said about the four games being solvable on its own is true.

Hehe, yes, there are so many informations you get if you read think about the games being a huge love letter to Battler, for example Georges: "Even now, I only exist for your sake" in ep 3. Or Mammons "Come on! Kill me, deny me, your first and last friend"while crying. Its been like that from the start. If you read it as a love letter, it all falls into place.

Are you referring to KNM? Not that I am defending him or anything, but he did claim that he had holes in his theory and even if he is wrong, he would admit it as long as there is proof of it within the story. It is not like he is attacking anyone. So I don't think he is so deadset on Rosatrice. If anything, it is the fanboys themselves who are deadset on Rosatrice, not him. To a certain extent I could also say that some Sayotrice fanboys also add fuel to the fire by using the author's authority so much. Last time I remember there are still loopholes in the story that would allow Rosatrice, making it a valid alternative solution, manga version included. Also, unlike with the official explanation, it doesn't involve twisting the red truth (e.g. number of people = number of names). All in all, I think it is close-mindedness on both sides that the Umineko fandom is divided in the first place when in fact it shouldn't be. Plus I think Ryukishi would love to hear the Rosatrice theory, even if it is not his intended solution. Rosatrice in a nutshell: the game of cheese in EP6. As for his methodology, he isn't even close to Inbuilt's analyses.

Hehe, actually his videos arent that bad to listen to Of course, my method is pretty much the opposite of his - he focuses on the red truth and on single words, for example the word "family" in the video you recently linked. Earlier its the same with "body" "person" etc. What I do is - I read the black text. And if an intepretation of the scene is supported by many other clues and fits with the context and the red truth, I take this as my hypothesis and look if there is anything falsifying or veryfying it. This I do with all the scenes, try to see if they match and if they are pit into the puzzle.
So yeah, while KNM focuses on red truth and on single words, and is interpreting it literally, I focus on black text, take a look at the whole picture, and interpret everything with a double meaning. Concrete words, I use only to further strengthen a conclusion I reached beforehand. So yeah, concerning methology, we are represent the complete opposite.
I personally like to listen to him, even though I dont agree at all. What I have a problem with with the "Rosatrice-fans" is that they often assume things without providing clues that would lead to to this conclusion. But "Sayotrice-fans" (I count myself to them) sometimes are the same, saying: its just true. period. I firmly believe that there is A truth, but Ryukishi certainly intended for various theories to coexist. So some fans completely missed that point.

[Mali]

I don't like to say it but sometime I did a post about - it's an example - Rosa could be alive at a moment I get the feel I am branded as a Rosatrice supporter because 'the manga told the truth'. But I'm not feeling visiting sites with translated media because I'm not gonna import a manga with abysmal chances getting official released in Europe and and I had a bad experience with one visit after some - after that I changed my mind. I'm happy to have bought the VN, applied with a well made translation.
IT'S hard to discuss any further with people with knowledge of the manga. This makes me very sad

Spoiler for No NOT THIS:

Aerith: I would propose an alternate theory who gave the lettwer Maria ...
Bob: OBJECTION!!! It has been officially announced that the manga has the truth!
Aerith:
Bob: Deal with it

[Bluemail]

Originally Posted by Mali

I don't like to say it but sometime I did a post about - it's an example - Rosa could be alive at a moment I get the feel I am branded as a Rosatrice supporter because 'the manga told the truth'. But I'm not feeling visiting sites with translated media because I'm not gonna import a manga with abysmal chances getting official released in Europe and and I had a bad experience with one visit after some - after that I changed my mind. I'm happy to have bought the VN, applied with a well made translation.
IT'S hard to discuss any further with people with knowledge of the manga. This makes me very sad

But the Umineko manga is being officially released in English and getting it in European countries isn't hard? It's still got a long way to go before getting to EP8 though.

Rosatrice has honestly been a pain and people might still take a strong defensive stance against anything that goes against the official solution. I welcome interesting alternative theories as long as they are not trying too hard to become the actual solution. But people, me included, are naturally more interested in the real solution than alternatives.

Are you perhaps saying that it's hard to theorise when people bring up facts you aren't aware of yet, for not reading the manga? Sadly nothing can be done about that, but at least they should try to look at your theory from the perspective of someone who doesn't have all the knowledge and give the effort proper respect.

I have to bring up a thing about KNM's Rosatrice that I can't get my head around. Why would someone think the constant use of so-called "fake death drugs" was ever a good solution? Isn't that more or less a purupurupikopyo-level solution?

[Leslie Chow]

I have to bring up a thing about KNM's Rosatrice that I can't get my head around. Why would someone think the constant use of so-called "fake death drugs" was ever a good solution? Isn't that more or less a purupurupikopyo-level solution?

To be perfectly honest, even I couldn't get my head around it either. However, there are at least drugs that could have been used like anaesthesia or sleeping pills (which I strongly believe to have been used to kill Maria in EP4 with overdose, since the foaming in her mouth is a symptom of overdose of sleeping pills). But yeah, even though KNM technically solved most of, if not provided the backbone for Rosatrice, it doesn't mean that everything he says is a 100% accurate.

[Mali]

Originally Posted by Bluemail

But the Umineko manga is being officially released in English and getting it in European countries isn't hard? It's still got a long way to go before getting to EP8 though.

Haha I admit I didn't follow manga news often and overlook that some vol. were localized and released. I think I won't buy them (yet). My interests will probably change in few years.

Originally Posted by Bluemail

Rosatrice has honestly been a pain and people might still take a strong defensive stance against anything that goes against the official solution. I welcome interesting alternative theories as long as they are not trying too hard to become the actual solution. But people, me included, are naturally more interested in the real solution than alternatives.

It's not wrong that Sayo is supported by argumentum ad populum...
As long as Lambda do not aknowledge a truth the catbox remains, I guess.

Originally Posted by Bluemail

Are you perhaps saying that it's hard to theorise when people bring up facts you aren't aware of yet, for not reading the manga? Sadly nothing can be done about that, but at least they should try to look at your theory from the perspective of someone who doesn't have all the knowledge and give the effort proper respect.

I wrote some of these and started a misunderdstanding between them. Not long ago I argued with JJ. Afterwards I didn't want to to argue because it's always about who's the winner. A hard place for respect and tolerance. Well we are humans.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Bluemail

But the Umineko manga is being officially released in English and getting it in European countries isn't hard? It's still got a long way to go before getting to EP8 though.

Honestly for me it'll be easier to get the Japanese version than the American one. That's why I don't share the enthusiasm for the English releases.

Originally Posted by Mali

I wrote some of these and started a misunderdstanding between them. Not long ago I argued with JJ. Afterwards I didn't want to to argue because it's always about who's the winner. A hard place for respect and tolerance. Well we are humans.

If it looked like with my reply to you I showed a lack of respect and tolerance I apologize. It wasn't my intention.
However for me it's not so much as a matter of who's the winner as the race has ended long ago.
We were told the solution and Ryukishi confirmed that the manga is the official solution more than once.
I understand people might not like it and that's far from perfect but Ryukishi is only human. Honestly I don't really know what else he could do to prove the solution he had given in the manga is the official one.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by Mali

IT'S hard to discuss any further with people with knowledge of the manga. This makes me very sad

I'm very sorry if the atmosphere makes you feel like you can't contribute, but the problem exists on both sides, doesn't it? Yes, it is too bad that many fans in the West don't have an easy access to the manga, but, as regretable as it is, it can't be helped.
It's basically like complaining that you can't properly discuss a book with somebody, when you haven't read the last 20 pages and they have. You can make educated guesses, theories, give ideas, but in the end that other person can always trump you over by saying, "No, this is not how it ends".

Especially now that Ryukishi has confirmed that the manga is giving us everything we are supposed to know, it's a little grating that people keep insisting on there being equally valid alternative solutions. It makes it equally hard to actually discuss what is going on in the series currently (which is the manga).

Just saying.

[Mali]

I felt saying this before going in disagreements one more time

Originally Posted by jjblue1

Honestly for me it'll be easier to get the Japanese version than the American one. That's why I don't share the enthusiasm for the English releases.

I prefer localized (written) medias, especially books. I don't get the "feeling" of some scenarios. Maybe it's because English isn't my mother tongue . It's often a barrier. Movies, games and comics are different as long I understand the context along the act of someone/thing. If Umineko were a English novel (not VN) I fear I can't crasp the true story
Now for your post: I see you are an adept in Japanese. I may not be able to learn master this language. You can call yourself lucky to buy it in it's original beauty.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Mali

I felt saying this before going in disagreements one more time

I prefer localized (written) medias, especially books. I don't get the "feeling" of some scenarios. Maybe it's because English isn't my mother tongue . It's often a barrier. Movies, games and comics are different as long I understand the context along the act of someone/thing. If Umineko were a English novel (not VN) I fear I can't crasp the true story
Now for your post: I see you are an adept in Japanese. I may not be able to learn master this language. You can call yourself lucky to buy it in it's original beauty.

Nope, I can barely understand few Japanese words. It's just that Japanese original mangas get imported, Japanese manga translated in English don't, therefore it would be easier for me to obtain the Japanese version than the English one.
People prefers to wait for them to be translated here so there's not request ence nobody worries about importing them.
I too would prefer to read umineko in my mother tongue as I definitely understand things better in it but I somehow doubt it will get printed here.

[haguruma]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I too would prefer to read umineko in my mother tongue as I definitely understand things better in it but I somehow doubt it will get printed here.

I don't wanna blow my own horn here, but I would like to add that it is also always good to have somebody at hand who CAN understand the original medium. If I read the translation of a Russian novel, I would also ask a Russian friend who read it, if the translation actually keeps up with the original.

In the case of Umineko WH did an awesome job and I can only guess how much sweat and tears must have gone into this project. Yet there are some slight nuances that are simply harder to translate, they either get very ambiguous or they turn out to be stylistically horrible. As a translator, sometimes you have to sacrifice one for the other, that's why my chapter translations sometimes read a little weird.

That's also why I find Inbuiltx9's attempt, while commendable on a scholarly level, ultimately futile, since he does a lot of actual textual analysis to get to the narrative content. Sometimes it works and sometimes I go, no, this is not actually comparable in the original text.

[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by haguruma

I don't wanna blow my own horn here, but I would like to add that it is also always good to have somebody at hand who CAN understand the original medium. If I read the translation of a Russian novel, I would also ask a Russian friend who read it, if the translation actually keeps up with the original.

In the case of Umineko WH did an awesome job and I can only guess how much sweat and tears must have gone into this project. Yet there are some slight nuances that are simply harder to translate, they either get very ambiguous or they turn out to be stylistically horrible. As a translator, sometimes you have to sacrifice one for the other, that's why my chapter translations sometimes read a little weird.

That's also why I find Inbuiltx9's attempt, while commendable on a scholarly level, ultimately futile, since he does a lot of actual textual analysis to get to the narrative content. Sometimes it works and sometimes I go, no, this is not actually comparable in the original text.

And you know how much I'm totally, absolutely, completely grateful to you (and also to WH) for your translations!
Actually I count the days waiting for your next translation!
And just wondering... when you'll finish Ep 8 won't you feel like translating purple forgery? *innocent look*
Though I'll understand if you'll say you've better things to do! ^_-

[Leslie Chow]

Don't forget Episode X and Tsubasa as well, or even Ougon Musou Kyoku. It is also a shame that Yen Press is behind your translations haguruma. I mean like they could at least just translate up to the current one like other official translators do with Naruto or Bleach. But yeah it is great that we have at least a person like haguruma who is at least willing to share some scans and explain what happens to a scene when something doesn't make sense with text alone.

[jjblue1]

Let's not be greedy here. It wouldn't be fair if he had to do all the work as it's pretty time consuming...
Though Haguruma if you feel up to it I wouldn't even dream to hold you back! Just joking, I know real life keeps you busy... but if you find some spare time and feel like translating something please remember about Umineko!

[Leslie Chow]

Well I'm a greedy person LOL. But yeah totally unfair if he had to do all the work. Reading, translating and even typing the translations are already hard enough and even takes time! Totally understandable if he doesn't translate the other side stories.

[GuestSpeaker]

Very interesting. Ep 6 manga makes it quite clear that if Ange goes to Rokkenjima, she will be shot by someone. It also makes Featherine out to be a bit more evil than previously implied. AND it casts doubt on a lot of the interpretation of ep 7.

However, it does not answer the question of how Bern knows all the answers haha.