(L+CR) Hibike! Euphonium [anime]

[Birdway]

The novels have 3 volumes that worked on that. Thus anime. Only can cover 1.

Even if they didn't cut his screen time it would lead to nothing conclusive because the issue is Kumiko not him.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Even if they didn't cut his screen time it would lead to nothing conclusive because the issue is Kumiko not him.

Kumiko having issues to deal with doesn't mean Shuuichi should stay underdeveloped. Neither does this justify how generic and bland he is.

[Birdway]

Generic and bland doesn't make sense when you say underdeveloped before it. That's more like your personal opinion.

Also the anime despite having few about him it made obvious he has a good insight at judging persons(knowing about Asuka), reading between the lines, advising Kumiko, being straight at answering others people feelings, and not being an indecisive generic guy.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Generic and bland doesn't make sense when you say underdeveloped before it.

It makes perfect sense. When I say generic and bland, I mean his personality. He has a John Doe personality. He's not distinctive at all. That's okay for a minor character, but not for a character that is supposed to be the MC's main love interest.

When I say underdeveloped I mean that we don't know what makes him tick besides trying to get Kumiko's attention. Right now that's pretty much all there is to him in that respect. Even side characters like Kaori get more development.

[BBOvenGuy]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

When I say underdeveloped I mean that we don't know what makes him tick besides trying to get Kumiko's attention. Right now that's pretty much all there is to him in that respect.

And eating corndog thingys. Don't forget those.

I agree that he's much too bland so far to be suitable boyfriend material for a main character. That's not to say he'll always be that way - three more volumes is more than enough room for proper development. But at this moment, all we anime-only viewers have to work with is this series, and in this series he's not cutting it.

[Birdway]

Then you need to rewatch his parts if you think that, again, your opinion.

Ironic how when it's about other characters then some begin reading too much into the lines.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

And eating corndog thingys.

That's pretty much his 'thing' right now.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Then you need to rewatch his parts if you think that, again, your opinion.

Ironic how when it's about other characters then some begin reading too much into the lines.

Agreed. At the very least, it's clear that, besides being interested in Kumiko, he cares about music and the band. Contrasting him with Kumiko is actually quite interesting: both care, but it's Shuuichi who finds out a fair amount of information about how the band was previously, and also about Taki-sensei. Even the fact that he switched from French horn to trombone says something about him, though given that he's not a main character (or a girl), it's not surprising that most viewers don't care.

[Birdway]

That goes without saying .

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by karice67

Agreed. At the very least, it's clear that, besides being interested in Kumiko, he cares about music and the band.

That's a default element as pretty much all the characters care about music and the band to some degree. What his character is lacking (besides a compelling personality) are goals and motivations that are specific to him.

Take Kaori for example. She feels responsibility for what happened the previous year and wants to get better to make amends. That's not particularly distinctive but she also wants to play at her best for her own sake, since it's her last year. All the while she realizes that Reina is a real threat to her goals and is particularly affected by it.

They devote this little piece of plot to Kaori, a side character. Shuuichi, who should be more important if he is to become Kumiko's love interest, doesn't even get that much development.

Take Asuka for example. We don't know were her passion for music is coming from yet, but we know that passion is so strong she puts it above everything else. To the point she can appear cold and detached when it comes to things that get in the way of her music.

Take Reina for example. For her music is just a tool. The object of her passion is herself. Her goal is to be especial. A goal that is fully of her own. Among all the characters, there's no one who is as much their own character as Reina is.

Now look at Shuuichi. There's nothing there besides his interest for Kumiko and a bunch of generic details. No matter how you look at it, he's lacking in the character development department.

And don't get wrong. I'm not bashing Shuuichi. I'm criticizing KyoAni for not putting any effort into his character.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's a default element as pretty much all the characters care about music and the band to some degree. What his character is lacking (besides a compelling personality) are goals and motivations that are specific to him.

Take Kaori for example. She feels responsibility for what happened the previous year and wants to get better to make amends. That's not particularly distinctive but she also wants to play at her best for her own sake, since it's her last year. All the while she realizes that Reina is a real treat to her goals and is particularly affected by it.

They devote this little piece of plot to Kaori, a side character. Shuuichi, who should be more important if he is to become Kumiko's love interest, doesn't even get that much development.

As I pointed out before, there is also a contrast with Kumiko that I find interesting: it suggests that he is proactive, to a certain degree. Comparing him with a third year like Kaori (who's the trumpet section leader) and is in direct conflict music-wise with another main character is, in a sense, unfair.

Besides, there are hints about Shuuichi's broader goals in music: switching to trombone and reacting so strongly to passing the audition. The latter, along with a few of his conversations with Kumiko, tells us that he's seriously interested in aiming for the nationals, unlike some of the others who mainly became interested after Taki pushed them in that direction. His "Shut up" upon hearing others going "I feel sorry for the one in between" also says something about him.

So there are little bits and pieces for viewers to care to engage with his character. I didn't actually bother to pay much attention until I decided this morning to step into this debate, and now I've found more than I had noticed before when I was just watching casually.

I think it's completely fine if you (and most other viewers) are more interested in characters like Asuka, Reina and Kumiko. However, it would be nice if you stopped dismissing what other people see with regards to other characters when you don't seem to want to engage with what the show presents about them.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by karice67

As I pointed out before, there is also a contrast with Kumiko that I find interesting: it suggests that he is proactive, to a certain degree. Comparing him with a third year like Kaori (who's the trumpet section leader) and is in direct conflict music-wise with another main character is, in a sense, unfair.

That's the thing. He should be as important as Kaori. To fulfill his role as main love interest, he should be at least that important and involved in the plot, if not more.

I think it's completely fine if you (and most other viewers) are more interested in characters like Asuka, Reina and Kumiko.

It's not about being more interested in this or that character. It's just that he's lacking development and attention for the role he supposedly has been given. If he was just a friend, then this is probably enough. But for a love interest, his character needs more meat. Lots more.

And I repeat. I'm not bashing Shuuichi. I'm just pointing out that KyoAni should have put more effort into his character.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

That's the point. He should be as important as Kaori. To fulfill his role as main love interest, he should be at least that important and involved in the plot, if not more.

How, exactly? He's a first year, and has just started on trombone - is he meant to drive the band forward? And he's obviously not meant to inspire Kumiko - that's Reina's role.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's not about being more interested in this or that character. It's just that he's lacking development and attention for the role he supposedly has been given. If he was just a friend, then this is probably enough. But for a love interest, his character needs more meat. Lots more.

And I repeat. I'm not bashing Shuuichi. I'm just pointing out that KyoAni should had put more effort into his character .

There is a fair amount of effort, within the limits of what they can show given that the story is told predominantly from Kumiko's (remarkably unobservant) perspective. I just don't think you're interested in engaging with it.

Besides, I honestly don't see this show going anywhere romance-wise, at least not in the episodes we'll be getting. We'll see the prefectural band competition, and that should be it.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by karice67

There is effort, within the limits of what they can show given that the story is told predominantly from Kumiko's (remarkably unobservant) perspective.

The story is not told completely from Kumiko's perspective. If that was the case, characters like Kaori wouldn't get any development, considering she doesn't interact with Kumiko at all. This amount of effort isn't enough for the main love interest.

Besides, I honestly don't see this show going anywhere romance-wise. We'll see the prefectural band competition, and that should be it.

They already devoted almost two episodes to it. If this won't amount to anything, then they shouldn't waste their time. That's a problem in and of itself.

[HandofFate]

As a love interest, as the main PoV, its Kimiko's character development that hasn't progressed enough for the story to be able to give attention to Shuuichi as 'boyfriend' material.

It might not lead to anything by the time this season ends, but its building blocks.

I do hope a S2 comes out sooner than later though.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by HandofFate

As a love interest, as the main PoV, its Kimiko's character development that hasn't progressed enough for the story to be able to give attention to Shuuichi as 'boyfriend' material.

He should be developed as his own character, apart form her interest in Kumiko. Otherwise, he won't amount to anything besides being the "boyfriend."

[Birdway]

Well, that's exactly the point, it's building up for future developement.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

The story is not told completely from Kumiko's perspective. If that was the case, characters like Kaori wouldn't get any development, considering she doesn't interact with Kumiko at all. This amount of effort isn't enough for the main love interest.

I never said it was told completely from Kumiko's perspective. Perhaps a better way for me to put it is that it's about 'what's important for Kumiko' at this point in time.

Which connects me to this:

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

They already devoted almost two episodes to it. If this won't amount to anything, then they shouldn't waste their time. That's a problem in and of itself.

That depends on what you think the show is about. If it's just about getting to the competition, then sure, it'll be like most of the sports anime out there.

But if it's about Kumiko and the important things that make her who she is at this point in her life, then how is it not important? Wherever Kumiko's relationships with Reina and Shuuichi end up at the end of the season, they will have changed from how they were at the start. And both are important to the story that the show is telling for the effect that they have on Kumiko herself.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

He should be developed as his own character, apart form her interest in Kumiko. Otherwise, he won't amount to anything besides being the "boyfriend."

But he is being developed as his own character. You just don't seem interested in engaging with the scenes and details that do this.

-------
In any case, I've said all I want to say on this topic.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Birdway

Well, that's exactly the point, it's building up for future developement.

They should have started earlier. Now it's a little too late. And I'm not counting a second season that may or may not come.

Originally Posted by karice67

I never said it was told completely from Kumiko's perspective. Perhaps a better way for me to put it is that it's about 'what's important for Kumiko' at this point in time.

But it's more than that. Kumiko's character is at the center of it all, of course, but she's not the only character who is struggling to fulfill their goals and such. The show has made an effort to make at least a bunch of important characters feel like real people, independent from Kumiko. Shuuichi's character, on the other hand, is almost entirely satellite to Kumiko at this point, which shows the lack of character development there.

[bhl88]

And I was hoping that the conclusion would be that their relationship is better than it was at the start (upgrade from annoying childhood friend to something slightly higher but lower than couple).