Higurashi (1st Season) General Discussion

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Matrim

OK, I read some of the tips for episode six and I need to put forward my pet theories.

Spoiler:

What if the burned body is not that of Takano? We see in the tips that it was identified but the identity is not mentioned. I am pretty sure this theory will be shot down in the next episode but I had to mention it.
Takano just seemed too relaxed and happy for someone who has just broken into a forbidden warehouse, in a village where someone dies every year on this very day. I don't think the average archeologist who finds a human sacrifice tomb would tell its story so happily while inside the tomb but maybe Takano is just weird. Why did she and Tomitake allowed Shion and Keiichi to enter with them? Maybe Takano's role is to lure people into breaking the tabboo because someone wants the atmosphere of fear to continue in this village but is reluctant to kill people without the excuse that Oyashiro-sama is angry? And maybe this someone got really pissed off that not only Tomitake but also Shion (or Mion) and K1 got involved in the breaking in so he or she punished Takano?
If Takano is dead. is the person who called Keichi (Mion or Shion) sure of that? Or she just assumes that it has to be Takano?

Has anyone seen Mahoraba? Takano Miyo's character is very similar to the Bucho; lover of the occult with a dab of masochism. Perhaps Miyo wanted to become a victim herself because of her obsession with Hinamizawa's past? That's yet another possibility that you cannot write off at this moment.

Originally Posted by choia

Another question I have, based on the TIPS, is why the padlock on the storeroom was changed in the first place. Was it all a cunning trap to lure Tomitake and Takano?

That one will be explained very soon (maybe in the next episode).

[Freak Of Nature]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Has anyone seen Mahoraba? Takano Miyo's character is very similar to the Bucho

Ahaha.... Mahoraba is one of my favourite anime (as anyone who's looked in the thread for it will know -- although I used to have more posts in there, before the forums were vandalized last year), and the Buchou is my favourite character from the series.

[Matrim]

Spoiler:

Has anyone seen Mahoraba? Takano Miyo's character is very similar to the Bucho; lover of the occult with a dab of masochism. Perhaps Miyo wanted to become a victim herself because of her obsession with Hinamizawa's past? That's yet another possibility that you cannot write off at this moment.

Spoiler:

Sure, I cannot write off anything right now. I can accept Takano risking her life or even that of Tomitake just to get inside the building. But getting inside together with other people who could also become victims is taking it too far, IMO.
Another interesting thing is that Takano and Tomitake didn't seem that surprised or worried by Shion and K1's arrival and I can't help but wonder why. Maybe she in fact wanted to become a victim so didn't really mind witnesses? The other option is that it was all planned and K1 was the only one who was not aware of that but why would Shion do that? That warehouse is not exactly a romantic place where one would take his or her love interest. Simple curiousity?

[Jellyfish Marine]

Spoiler for Regarding something between Keiichi and Oyashiro-sama:

I remember one of our game moderator saying there's reason behind K1 moving in to Hinamizawa.
From Onikakushi and Watanagashi-hen, it seems like K1 is related to the Oyashiro-sama myth in someway. In both chapter, he is portrayed as the victim of of the myth.
So, is it possible that his presence in Hinamizawa is arranged because of some details in the myth?

For example,

he is a selected sacrifice for this year.

[FubaredByAnime]

Originally Posted by Jellyfish Marine

Spoiler for Regarding something between Keiichi and Oyashiro-sama:

I remember one of our game moderator saying there's reason behind K1 moving in to Hinamizawa.
From Onikakushi and Watanagashi-hen, it seems like K1 is related to the Oyashiro-sama myth in someway. In both chapter, he is portrayed as the victim of of the myth.
So, is it possible that his presence in Hinamizawa is arranged because of some details in the myth?

For example,

he is a selected sacrifice for this year.

Let's not jump the gun on this one. We have yet to finish the Watanagashi chapter and K-boy hasn't bitten the dust yet.

[kj1980]

I'm actually surprised that no one has yet made the connection of those poems by Frederica Bernkastel to a certain character yet.

HINT: "Frederica"

[Sumudu]

Just say it 10 times fast

What is the significance of "Bernkastel" though?

[Jellyfish Marine]

Originally Posted by kj1980

I'm actually surprised that no one has yet made the connection of those poems by Frederica Bernkastel to a certain character yet.

HINT: "Frederica"

OoO!! Is...is it...?

Spoiler:

Furude Rika?

[Sushi-Y]

But didn't Ryukishi07 deny that in the Encyclopedia Hinamizawa from the visual fanbook? ^^;

Spoiler:

That "Furude Rika" and "Frederica" are NOT the same person?

From the Frederica Bernkastel entry:

古手梨花とフレデリカは全然別よ、そう信じてた人はご愁傷様ね。

[FubaredByAnime]

Originally Posted by kj1980

I'm actually surprised that no one has yet made the connection of those poems by Frederica Bernkastel to a certain character yet.

HINT: "Frederica"

Wow, KJ, you must really want more discussion on this board to have mentioned this. I figured this out a while ago and wanted to talk about it, but due to a lack on info, I figured I would wait until at least the 2nd arc was done.

But to whet some of your appetites on this topic, here's a PM discussion I had with Sushi-Y after he listed the complete set of poems on the Q/A thread. Spoiler, of course.

Spoiler:

Sushi-Y:
"As for the character you searched for, is it Rika? Because that's the only one I could fine. Rika's name showed up at the bottom, in Frederica's "commentary" about herself (taken from the Higurashi fanbook). She was saying that 'Furude Rika and Frederica are completely different persons, a pity for those people who were thinking about that.'

Me:
"Yes, it was Rika's and it happened to be the only name I searched, considering how close "Frederica's" and "Furude Rica's" names sound alike. And also considering the fact that it was found in a fanbook for Higurashi fans, I'd put as much trust into that comment as I would that aliens, time travellers, and espers exist in this world. "

Sushi-Y:
"Oh no no, the fanbook is "official". That is, Ryukishi07 (the original creator) was pretty much the "editor in chief" for the thing. There are Higurashi fanarts and other fan-made contents in the book, although they were all by professionals in the industry, so compared to them, maybe Ryukishi07 (a doujin creator himself) is the amateur here?? ^^;

Frederica's commentary came from her "entry" inside the Higurashi terms dictionary in the fanbook, which is written by Ryukishi07 himself. So when she said she's not Rika, she's probably not. ^^;"

Edited:
Looks like Sushi-Y beat me to the punch with his comment.

[kj1980]

Yes, but it does make it interesting doesn't it? Besides, the correlation between Frederica and __________ can be taken many ways, like ______________ speaking through ________________.

AND PLEASE, NO SPOILERS FOR THOSE BLANKS!

[FubaredByAnime]

It's interesting to note how the anime's omission of Frederica Bernkastel's poems affects the entire atmosphere of the show. If someone just watches eps 1-4, he/she will more likely to believe that there are natural causes. It was the poems that have put me in the supernatural camp and that lead me to believe that

Spoiler:

Rika is the center of all this, somehow or another.

However, as the Onikushi arc didn't focus on that character and Watanagashi has yet to finish, there's not much more for me to go on, so I wanted to hold off until 2 more eps to give my suspicions.

[FubaredByAnime]

I just realized this small detail that no one seemed to have caught on yet and hence should break an assumption I think some of us are working off of.

Tomitake helped Takano break into the shed for Watanagashi, but he couldn't have in the previous story because he was taking pictures of Rika then. So unless he's the Flash, he couldn't have been cursed because of being near the shed. I can't speak for Takano and her whereabouts, but it does seem odd how in the previous arc when we first meet Takano, she doens't mention anything about bloodthirsty demons and disembowelments.

Well, something to keep in mind as we watch more.

[choia]

Originally Posted by FubaredByAnime

I just realized this small detail that no one seemed to have caught on yet and hence should break an assumption I think some of us are working off of.

Tomitake helped Takano break into the shed for Watanagashi, but he couldn't have in the previous story because he was taking pictures of Rika then. So unless he's the Flash, he couldn't have been cursed because of being near the shed. I can't speak for Takano and her whereabouts, but it does seem odd how in the previous arc when we first meet Takano, she doens't mention anything about bloodthirsty demons and disembowelments.

Well, something to keep in mind as we watch more.

Also,

Spoiler:

in the first arc Takano was presumably "ogred away" while in the second arc she's cursed by Oyashiro-sama.

I think it's safe to assume they never broke into the storehouse in the first arc. At least not together.

[Shinndou]

Originally Posted by choia

Also,

Spoiler:

in the first arc Takano was presumably "ogred away" while in the second arc she's cursed by Oyashiro-sama.

I think it's safe to assume they never broke into the storehouse in the first arc. At least not together.

Couldn't it be that in this current arc (Watanagashi-hen)

Spoiler:

Takano still got demoned away and the whole story about her being 'burned alive' is a lie? Afterall so far we have got to know this information from one person (Shion, supposing it's her an not Mion who phoned Keiichi), which we can safely is pretty much not completely trustworthy...

[kj1980]

Then again, here's a curveball for you guys:

How do you know that Takana wasn't burned alive in Onikakushi-hen? You can't throw out the possibility that the police just couldn't find her charred remains in that chapter. Hey a person could actually be murdered and if no one can't find the remains, that person remains "missing."

Sometimes, it takes to "reverse a conception" in solving a mystery, ala from Naruhodou Ryuiichi from Gyakuten Saiban (I believe this game is released in the U.S. as Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney)

[Shinndou]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Then again, here's a curveball for you guys:

How do you know that Takana wasn't burned alive in Onikakushi-hen? You can't throw out the possibility that the police just couldn't find her charred remains in that chapter.

Sometimes, it takes to "reverse a conception" in solving a mystery, ala from Naruhodo Ryuiichi from Gyakuten Saiban (I believe this game is released in the U.S. as Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney)

Yeah, I was actually considering that option as well. Which would imply that if Shion (or Mion) knows that much it means that she's somehow involved with Takano's murder then. I suppose we'll find out more about this in episode 7 if Oishi attempts to talk to Keiichi again just like he did in Onikakushi-hen (hoping it'll get subbed by the end of this week, sadly my knowledge of japanese is rather poor).

[Morgri]

Maybe this is a option?

Spoiler:

In the second arc, Rika messed up the ritual somewhere, but in the first arc, there is no mention of her doing so...

Do the ritual correctly = 1 sacrifice??
Do the ritual incorrectly = 2 sacrifices???
Just don't do it = No sacrifices????

Just something I noted, I doubt it has significance though.

[Misuzu]

Originally Posted by Shinndou

Couldn't it be that in this current arc (Watanagashi-hen)

Spoiler:

Takano still got demoned away and the whole story about her being 'burned alive' is a lie? Afterall so far we have got to know this information from one person (Shion, supposing it's her an not Mion who phoned Keiichi), which we can safely is pretty much not completely trustworthy...

Spoiler:

The cops talk about her being burned alive in the TIPS thread too- if you read it though, it definitely sounds like there could be fishy stuff going on!

[Shinndou]

I think a very small theory is begin to form in my head regarding this arc (I still haven't watched episode 7 so I might be proved wrong eh):

Spoiler:

It's about Mion. We know both from TIPS than from episode five and six that Mion never mentioned to her friends that she has a twin sister. We also know that apparently the two sisters used to 'switch roles' a couple of times, or more precisely rather than switch, having one of the two impersonating the other. Since Shion mentioned that Mion "has a lot of enemies", and having noticed what kind of behaviour the two sisters generally have (Mion being the tomboy but kind type, Shion being the cute yet outgoing and subtle type), I believe that in past Shion most likely pretended to be Mion in certain occasions, causing her sister to gain a not so positive reputation (which is probably why Mion doesn't live with her sister and which is probably why she lives alone with her grandmother at Hinamizawa). Moreover, we get to know from episode 6 that Mion is also going to inherit the position as 'head/leader' of the Sonozaki family. Now let's look at her reactions in episode 6: in the scene where they meet Takano and Tomitake for the first time at the festival Mion runs away from them, with a quite 'cold' answer, when the discussion moves on the Hinamizawa murder cases. Then after Keiichi is being dragged by her to the riverbank she again asks Keiichi if he was with Shion, with a not so happy expression and mood. Again, the following morning she keeps asking the same thing.

Why? I am beginning to suspect that just as we speculated about Keiichi being victim of a sort of paranoia/mental insanity in Onikakushi-hen, the same thing might actually be happening to Mion as well. Based on the factors I stated above (being tricked by her sister, having enemies, being somehow 'disturbed' by the Hinamizawa incident and also knowing she's going to inherit a very delicate role as head of her family), it feels like she's being put under a serious amount of stress which is apparently making her more and more paranoid/obsessed about her sister (which is why she asked twice to Keiichi if he was with Shion). She most likely doesn't like the fact that her sister is now known and will be an 'obstacle' between her and her friends (Keiichi in particular), which probably represented her only 'little peaceful oasis' from the stress she's suffering from.

Also, if you noticed, the first time Mion asks Keiichi if he was with Shion during the time he was 'missing', she doesn't ask anything about Takano and Tomitake. The following morning though she does, most likely because she gets to know that something happened to them and she starts to worry (in a paranoid way) if Keiichi (and eventually Shion) happened to be with them. Maybe she probably fears (again, in a paranoid way) that Shion might actually find a way to make her appear in her place as the one who was with Tomitake and Takano.

And for some reason there's something about Shion's phone call to Keiichi (at the end of episode 6) that doesn't convince me, which is her alibi (she says a 'relative' can confirm that, I wonder if she refers to Mion). But well, I guess that's still a bit tough to speculate on...

Last considerations: by reading the TIPS we know that the padlock that locked the storage room was changed with a much simpler one, just right before the festival. Why? Could it be that someone was predicting that Takano wanted to visit that place and lured her in using the padlock as a sort of 'bait' to confirm it?

And how could Oiishi-san formulate such a precise question to Keiichi when he met him at library? I find it hard to know that he was spying them the night before, while it might be possible that he 'threw' that question as a bait (knowing that he has seen both Keiichi and Shion with Tomitake and Takano during the festival) to see Keiichi's reaction.