2015-09-02, 02:11 | Link #2701 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
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Kodaka's own wish: Please have fun, please play together, but don't come any closer to me! A place where they all can be happy with the silent agreement that no one should make a move on him. Sena confessed and he ran away and didn't came back on his own. Rika had to blackmail him to come back. So is there any desire in him to bond with other people? No! Absolutely not. Rika had to fight with him and to insist to become his friend. Yukimura also had to fight and to insist to date him. These were not his own choices. At the end these relationships broke (going back being clubmates again), and Kodaka himself don't make any attempts to recover a relationship, he easily cut ties. And now the story ended with this status and the author tells us in the afterword that he always had this ending in mind. He can't be serious! Last edited by mironicus; 2015-09-02 at 02:42. |
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2015-09-02, 02:28 | Link #2702 | |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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It makes total sense that this is the ending the author wanted because it's the one that makes the most sense given the way the story started. It's a story about the under-appreciated value and nature of friendship.
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2015-09-02, 02:59 | Link #2703 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
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If this ending is true i fcking hate it
reasons being the fcking author: -make to many shipping inducing scenes then ultimately troll us at the end. -while i thought that the mc is developing to a good path it just fckng ultimately wnd in there is no change at all. -all the build up the author make and trolling it in the end. -should i steer clear oon this author's works in the future? -i really feeled betrayed by the ending, i feel all those time reading it is wasted.
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2015-09-02, 03:12 | Link #2704 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
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What the author might tell you today is "Today I have many friends, good communication skills, positive thinking, outgoing, good manners". I just changed all his words into positive ones. These are his aims in life. The ending is that Kodaka himself completely gave up and just accepts that things happens, life flows like a river while he don't swim in any kind of directions, having no aims in life. What can you achieve in life if you always give up fast like Kodaka? Nothing! No happy life! No relationships with people you like, because relationships also only last as long you don't give up on them. So for me these are just the bitter words of a loner who gave up to do what he likes in his life. |
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2015-09-02, 03:38 | Link #2705 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
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He wanted the club to stay perfectly intact by keeping romance out of its fellow members? That's fine: retarded but fine. Then why didn't he ever express this desire to Sena & reject her when she had first confessed, instead of being such a coward by postponing his answer, then never again addressing her confession until Sena hears which girl he had "chosen" via Yukimura's announcement of them going out? Same thing with Yukimura. Despite his constant resistance to any in-club romance, Kodaka threw it all away & simply caved into Yukimura's strong-armed advances at the end (purely due to teenage hormones & despite the fact that his romantic inclinations had leaned towards Rika at the time), even though that could have potentially destroyed the club whether Yukimura had resigned or not; the outcome he had feared the most. And lo and behold, his going out with another girl hadn't even affect the relationships between the other Neighbor Club members in the slightest. So all this time, Kodaka had basically been cock-blocking himself for nothing.
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2015-09-02, 05:48 | Link #2706 |
Princess or Plunderer?
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
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I think people probably expected too much about light novels with similar themes as requiring some kind of development, positive or negative, comedic or angst-filled, romantic or tragic. As if coming of age stories have to conquer some kind of invisible foe like society, bullying, or self-contempt. (Or incest, as readers of Oreimo know.)
But what if Kodaka did mature, but only by accepting that what he is right now is good enough? Realistically, "coming of age" isn't all about breaking walls and releasing oneself from "oppression". It's more about acceptance and coping with the harsh realities of life, which lines up well with Japanese culture. In a way, Kodaka's story "about [himself] who also had few friends, bad communication skills, negative thinking, lacking life experiences and useless delusional habits" remains true to the end. Still, it's understandable that some romantic issues are demanded to be resolved, since they are still plot threads that deserve to be dealt with. But judging from that small outrage by the narrative, we won't expect anything from it any time soon. Hirasaka-sensei might as well be done with Haganai.
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2015-09-02, 12:57 | Link #2707 | |
The Mage of Four Hearts
Author
Join Date: Mar 2010
Age: 34
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If the story was all about the value of friendship, the stuff with Sena, Rika and Yukimura is just unnecessary. It really should have been handled with much less drama and more finesse, or better yet, not at all.
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2015-09-02, 14:32 | Link #2708 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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Spoiler for my opnion over harems if you love harem don't read:
now going back to this novel, well i will hook with majority about how terrible this novel was and how kodaka reached a completly new level of "jerky mc", the level of cowardice from kodaka finally showed how extreme japan can go when using tropes, i really, really hated that guy with passion and was just following that series because after countless "volumes" i'm the type of not give up easy and try to follow to end even if i don't like it just to see how things gonna end. but in haganai i made a excpetion and after few volumes i give up because i could see that "bad" end 2 to 3 volumes early, really kodaka not disappointed me in proof which this sort of "mc" still exist, well my overal note for this series is 3 / 10 for the comedy and the girls, i could give a little more but kodaka really runied everything. for the mc is -1000000000/100 kodaka in the end was true the root of all the trouble, almost everything was his own fault to be a coward, normally most of the mcs try to be the solution but he was exactly the opposite keep being the trouble, doing mistakes over mistakes, saying wrong words acting really terrible and like a true coward the whole time.
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Last edited by Blueknight78; 2015-09-02 at 15:04. |
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2015-09-02, 15:03 | Link #2709 | |
Super Senior Elder Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Silent Hill
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about your harem comment. Spoiler:
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2015-09-02, 16:00 | Link #2710 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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then he just keep being more and more loser making more and more worst choices, hurting more and more the girls, that was one of the few series where i true wished the mc end true forever alone which he true diserve it with passion, if possible even take his little sister from him and could not still enough for what he diserve. Spoiler for about the harem:
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2015-09-03, 14:42 | Link #2711 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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There is nothing wrong with pandering, nor there is anything wrong with escapism and wish fulfillment. I'd say taking a houlier than thou stance against those things is baffling, rather than just taking them for what they are and enjoying them, but nonetheless. To me, the stupidest thing a LN harem writer can do is take the "journey > conclusion" approach. It may be the case sometimes but not for something like a harem or a love comedy. Girls are the draw in this case, so just advance whatever excuse for a plot you have, develop whatever character you think is suitable enough to win, make it reasonable, sensical for mc and that particular girl to get together and just have her "win". Is it pandering? Then pander, whatever backlash from wrong shipping doesn't matter.
Naruto was a fricking ninja manga and you had people cry in real life because Naruto got Hinata rather than Sakura (which was actually some very well done shipping, as opposed to have Sakura win because people self-inserted so hard into Naruto to the point it was either Sakura or nothing), but then in a in your face Harem they get nothing because the point is friendship. Oreimo had to deal with the incest outrage, but the author still gave his best to tell you "he didn't want her, nor her or her. At the end himself and the sister are a thing, well kinda but not really but maybe *wink*" It's the same reason why I dropped Yahari for the time being, people hoping he'd end up like the grumpy loner he always liked to be, riding off in the sunset. In a way he actually does sound like the Nolan Batman, except that one didn't end up alone. |
2015-09-04, 08:56 | Link #2713 | ||
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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There's no doubt that the work is flawed, but I think people are taking too narrow a view of the purpose of the story and the overall narrative. Quote:
When you're a teenager, you sometimes think that when you get older things are going to totally change and you'll overcome all your weaknesses to change who you are and the world around you. But then, as life goes on, you start to realize that actually you don't miraculously change, you just learn how to better deal with yourself and with others based on your experiences along the way. And that's the sort of nuance of this ending. It's not "even losers can become 'riajuus', get the girl, overcome their loner-ness, and lead an admirable life!" All that basically says is that being a social outcast is a "disease" that you need to "cure" to become "normal" -- and that's pretty damning. The ending is much more affirming. You can be who you are, flaws and all, but still find friends and be contented in life. So all this to say, I think you totally misunderstood the point of the author's comment and of the story. The author never put being an outgoing social butterfly on a pedestal that anyone should aspire to. Rather, it's the story of a bunch of people who had to learn to deal with the fact that they're not like that, but still find friendship and contentment anyway. Or maybe there's a broader definition of character development than some people want to consider, but it's way easier to say the story sucks and the author is a moron than to actually try to consider it from other points of view.
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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2015-09-04 at 09:30. |
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2015-09-04, 14:39 | Link #2714 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
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when the only person to not change and even get "Worse" over time was kobaka which exactly the mc then this make sounds more like "dont" worry you can be still being the same weird loser and you will get hot girls which will be in love for you forever and you can keep running forever from then then everyone around you gonna happry progress and you can keep being the same coward loser and still happy cuz the girls even after change gonna still hook with you, the final idea i get here sounded really weird for me, others can move with they lifes but you don't need. that is my problem, is not even about ship but about how terrible kobaka was not developed over the time he was the only one which the best thing he get in the end was "admit which he is a loser" and he don't need to worry about being a loser.
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2015-09-05, 03:54 | Link #2715 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
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And especially Sena is just like the authors words indicates (for me) - a complete change in his life was possible, because he never gave up on his aim and got rid of everything that was holding him back to make friends: Better communication skills, good manners, positive thinking... Sena was able to make a bond with an extreme antisocial girl, because she never gave up on her aim to make friends, and she never gave up on Yozora just as well. And this is a victory. And she still has not given up on Kodaka. At this moment, the story feels uncompleted for me. Sena will keep her promise and ask Kodaka to date her after graduation if the story would continue a little bit. Uncompleted also feels Kodaka's background and why he has such an avoiding personality and why he is afraid of sudden changes in his life. He always gives up fast on his own plans. My guess would be that he has a personality disorder that holds him back to move forward in his life and to make friends, avoiding conflicts and problems, only wants to live a peaceful life without making bonds, extremely vulnerable, unwilling to change his life. If this is true then his life is very restricted and he needs to be treated. There is not enough material for a third season. I doubt that the author is not interested to maximize profits, he always did that and extended the story as long as possible. If we get a third season, the ending of Vol. 11 can't be the last episode. I don't believe that. So I hope we will get an exclusive good anime ending that satisfies more people. Quote:
Last edited by mironicus; 2015-09-05 at 05:32. |
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2015-09-05, 09:41 | Link #2716 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
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Kodaka is such a coward that can't take any risk. And always too afraid of failure. And too content of.what he has. And didn't at the big picture. Even if he is content that doesn't mean that the others are
He is such a selfish coward till the bitter end.
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2015-09-10, 11:15 | Link #2717 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: neverneverland
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2015-09-11, 10:40 | Link #2719 |
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 42
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I'm honestly not sure it's missing the point that far. If Kodaka had chosen a girlfriend at the end, almost all the arguments in this thread about the lack of character development for the protagonist would deflate. The main thing people have complained about in this thread is that the protagonist seems cowardly, and that he rejected the other heroines, got pressured into dating Yukimura, and then broke up with her (though it was limited to begin with) to reset the status quo with the club. The claimed issue is that at the end of the story he chose the "let's all just be friends" ending, which seems like not really choosing anything from a third-party point of view. They've rejected his moment of realization at the end about the value of the club and friendship, which was basically the moral of the story.
In other words, people are mad that our "beta" protagonist remained a "beta" protagonist all the way to the end, and didn't actually "grow up and make a real decision", which equals picking a girlfriend and not just the club. So yeah, in a roundabout way, what zerozeronine said is basically right, even if it's for slightly different reasons. If he had "manned up" and chosen to date Sena, for example, the reaction in this thread would have been entirely different.
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2015-09-11, 14:45 | Link #2720 |
Mystic Musician
Join Date: Jul 2015
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That's not the points, which I meant is that Kodaka, who wants to keep the status quo should at least grow a mentality that makes others understand that he doesn't wants a relationship for the time being, however he takes the run away route, which is pretty inmature and irresponsible even for his age. It's not like the other girls won't concede to certain degree, they're not that desperate.
Isn't about choosing a girl but making them and the reader convey the reasons of his decision without making it feel like he was running away from them so he can fullfil a wish that won't last not even some months(high school was over in the last novel). |
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comedy, friendship, harem, light novels, love decisions, school life, shounen |
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