(L) Overlord [LN]

[bloodyriders]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

You do know it is not very convincing especially when he started pulling out his friend divine class item and start using them right? The fact that he was willing to use those other item but not the ring and using the excuse of not being focus on the battle is dumb it was simply the author way if making the fight more exciting by making it look like ainz could really die in this fight.

Because his friend equips are just temporary use, as they will back to their place when unused, while his equipment can be dropped and it will be really frustrating if it's looted by enemies.
And when he remove his revival ring, i don't think it's dumb. Imagine if you can ressurect several times without penalty, your action will be more careless, and only thought critically when it's your last time to revive (happen me a lot time when play as wraith king in dota 2)

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by bloodyriders

Because his friend equips are just temporary use, as they will back to their place when unused, while his equipment can be dropped and it will be really frustrating if it's looted by enemies.
And when he remove his revival ring, i don't think it's dumb. Imagine if you can ressurect several times without penalty, your action will be more careless, and only thought critically when it's your last time to revive (happen me a lot time when play as wraith king in dota 2)

But this is no longer a game he should realize that if he die without that ring he would have die for real, him using the excuse of not being focus is just a poor excuse. Even has he have defeated shalltar he should have be cautious of being sneak attack and kill by someone else so him not wearing the ring make little sense.

[God Slayer]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

But this is no longer a game he should realize that if he die without that ring he would have die for real, him using the excuse of not being focus is just a poor excuse. Even has he have defeated shalltar he should have be cautious of being sneak attack and kill by someone else so him not wearing the ring make little sense.

I perfectly agree, if he wanted to concentrate more in the fight he could've just done so while thinking about not losing and sullying his guild name, or he could've thought that even if he did wear it he might not revive, so in other words he should've just wore it as a necessary precaution anyways; while thinking that he might not revive which would make him focus and concentrate more in the fight, that's all he needed to do, so it really was just a silly mistake on his part.

[MonkeyDude]

Meh it's like playing an ARPG like Diablo 2 in hardcore mode. You would do things differently and far more cautiously as you only have 1 attempt at it. It's a conscious decision that puts his pride as a man and as guild leader of Ainz Ooal Gown on the line.

And since when has anything to do with pride or any other emotion made much, if any, rational sense?

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

Meh it's like playing an ARPG like Diablo 2 in hardcore mode. You would do things differently and far more cautiously as you only have 1 attempt at it. It's a conscious decision that puts his pride as a man and as guild leader of Ainz Ooal Gown on the line.

And since when has anything to do with pride or any other emotion made much, if any, rational sense?

Again if this have to do with pride then it make little sense with him using his friend's item, he would be fighting her naked instead. The fact that he use his friend item was a precaution already so him not wearing the ring as a back up make little sense.

[MonkeyDude]

He clearly states the name of "Ainz Ooal Gown," a name he took to represent the entirety of the guild known as Ainz Ooal Gown. Shalltear wasn't just fighting the Overlord formerly known as Momonga, but the entirely of the guild represented by the person who took the name of Ainz Ooal Gown. Not only were the items of his former guild mates the linchpin of his battle plan, but also symbolic in that the guild itself is fighting Shalltear. "And this name cannot ever know defeat" refers not to himself, but the guild known as Ainz Ooal Gown.

Of course that's just my own interpretation of the events so I could be wrong.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

He clearly states the name of "Ainz Ooal Gown," a name he took to represent the entirety of the guild known as Ainz Ooal Gown. Shalltear wasn't just fighting the Overlord formerly known as Momonga, but the entirely of the guild represented by the person who took the name of Ainz Ooal Gown. Not only were the items of his former guild mates the linchpin of his battle plan, but also symbolic in that the guild itself is fighting Shalltear. "And this name cannot ever know defeat" refers not to himself, but the guild known as Ainz Ooal Gown.

Of course that's just my own interpretation of the events so I could be wrong.

How does this explain him not wearing his own item? So he himself doesn't count as part of the guild? The fact that he can't lose no matter what should have been more than enough reason for him to wear the ring for the off chance that either shalltar or some one else kill him cause when it happen that mean aog lose.

[Polarpew]

I cant believe I missed out on this anime. I was brought to the series by a Fate/Overlord Fanfic A Rusted Edge, originally thinking it was a Overlord game (the ps3 game) fanfic, I was intrigued then brushing it off as an SAO knockoff. Then I got curious and marathoned the LN's and only now watching the anime, gotta say its pretty neat, better than SAO

[MonkeyDude]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

How does this explain him not wearing his own item? So he himself doesn't count as part of the guild? The fact that he can't lose no matter what should have been more than enough reason for him to wear the ring for the off chance that either shalltar or some one else kill him cause when it happen that mean aog lose.

Again it's a matter of pride, which almost always never go hand in hand with rational logic. Hell since we're on this topic, why didn't he just let the guardians handle this matter? That would have been the safest and most logical course of action, yet he decided to fight Shalltear himself.

His actions related to the fight make no rational sense so why fixate on this one tiny detail?

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

Again it's a matter of pride, which almost always never go hand in hand with rational logic. Hell since we're on this topic, why didn't he just let the guardians handle this matter? That would have been the safest and most logical course of action, yet he decided to fight Shalltear himself.

His actions related to the fight make no rational sense so why fixate on this one tiny detail?

Again you use the excuse of pride, if it indeed it's pride then he should be fighting her naked and not with his friend's gears. Him planning to use his friend's item later in the fight make it seem like he thought it through and plan ahead which show he was thinking rationally and not like what you are claiming at all. You keep going on about pride and stuff but his action speak otherwise. The excuse he use for not using the guardian was a different one than the one he use to not wear the ring.

[IndexOfIdeas]

The moment in mmo

where putting buffs o your character takes much more time than u having to finish a pvp

[MonkeyDude]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

Again you use the excuse of pride, if it indeed it's pride then he should be fighting her naked and not with his friend's gears. Him planning to use his friend's item later in the fight make it seem like he thought it through and plan ahead which show he was thinking rationally and not like what you are claiming at all. You keep going on about pride and stuff but his action speak otherwise. The excuse he use for not using the guardian was a different one than the one he use to not wear the ring.

His pride not only as a guild leader but the pride of Ainz Ooal Gown. He fought with the weapons of the former members so that it would be a fight against the guild. He fought without his divine-tier gear most likely to use it as a psychological tactic to throw off his opponent. I already explained the rationale behind going "hardcore" mode before so I'm not going to repeat myself.

He was already acting irrational by facing Shalltear all by himself. Even though he acted rational by planning the fight in a way he would a PVP/RAID, the rationality is grounded on the irrational action of fighting against an opponent with a huge type advantage over him. His pride is an explanation for his actions offered by Shalltear so take it with a grain of salt, but his actions support the notion.

And if nothing else the author plays RPG games. Could have drawn inspiration from ARPG's with hardcore mode. Even the explanation behind it goes hand in hand with how a player of that type of game mode would approach it.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

His pride not only as a guild leader but the pride of Ainz Ooal Gown. He fought with the weapons of the former members so that it would be a fight against the guild. He fought without his divine-tier gear most likely to use it as a psychological tactic to throw off his opponent. I already explained the rationale behind going "hardcore" mode before so I'm not going to repeat myself.

He was already acting irrational by facing Shalltear all by himself. Even though he acted rational by planning the fight in a way he would a PVP/RAID, the rationality is grounded on the irrational action of fighting against an opponent with a huge type advantage over him. His pride is an explanation for his actions offered by Shalltear so take it with a grain of salt, but his actions support the notion.

And if nothing else the author plays RPG games. Could have drawn inspiration from ARPG's with hardcore mode. Even the explanation behind it goes hand in hand with how a player of that type of game mode would approach it.

Your so call hardcore mode explanation only apply if ainz still think of the new world as a game, but this was never mention not that I remember in the ln especially when it come to death if it has been a game he wouldn't have struggle so much mentally over killing shalltar. Ainz clearly said that the only reason he didn't use the other guardian was cause he didn't want to see them kill each other, but the excuse for not wearing the ring is silly, the ring is not even an attack item, it was merely an support item, wearing would not have any impact in the pride you speak of at all especially when the fact that he was in a position where some unknown enemy could have nuke him with a wc when he was fighting shalltar.
Also was ainz really at a disadvantage against shalltar? I mean he kill her once and if she didn't have the resurrection item it would have be over.

[MonkeyDude]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

Your so call hard mode explanation only apply if ainz still think of the new world as a game, but this was never mention not that I remember in the ln. Ainz clearly said that the only reason he didn't use the other guardian was cause he didn't want to see them kill each other, but the excuse for not wearing the ring is silly, the ring is not even an attack item, it was merely an support item, wearing would not have any impact in the pride you speak of at all especially when the fact that he was in a position where some unknown enemy could have nuke him with a wc when he was fighting shalltar.
Also was ainz really at a disadvantage against shalltar? I mean he kill her once and if she didn't have the resurrection item it would have be over.

Ainz testing spells early on to see whether he'd aggro Shalltear clearly demonstrates that he thinks that some Yggdrasil mechanics still work in that world. His preparation for the battle resembled that of how they do PVP/RAID fights so he clearly still applies game knowledge to that world. And did you forget the description of WC items? The only item that can counteract the effects of a WC item would be another WC item so that ring would be useless against it.

...you're seriously asking if Ainz was at a disadvantage in that fight? I mean I get that he just so happened to have a skill he happened by chance thanks to his RP avatar, but you're really asking that? Oh well I'm done. Last time I'm going to respond since I'm not in the habit of having an argument against a brick wall.

Made my case on your ring question. Do with it what you will.

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

Ainz testing spells early on to see whether he'd aggro Shalltear clearly demonstrates that he thinks that some Yggdrasil mechanics still work in that world. His preparation for the battle resembled that of how they do PVP/RAID fights so he clearly still applies game knowledge to that world. And did you forget the description of WC items? The only item that can counteract the effects of a WC item would be another WC item so that ring would be useless against it.

...you're seriously asking if Ainz was at a disadvantage in that fight? I mean I get that he just so happened to have a skill he happened by chance thanks to his RP avatar, but you're really asking that? Oh well I'm done. Last time I'm going to respond since I'm not in the habit of having an argument against a brick wall.

Made my case on your ring question. Do with it what you will.

First I have heard that when someone that got kill by any wc item, they can't be revive by an resurrection item. The only one that actually prevent resurrection was the Longinus one unless one use another wc of course, get your fact straight. Yes ainz is curious about whether the game system still apply to the new world but his overall thinking is not center on the game especially when it came to death otherwise he wouldn't struggle mentally about killing shalltar.

[God Slayer]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

First I have heard that when someone that got kill by any wc item, they can't be revive by an resurrection item. The only one that actually prevent resurrection was the Longinus one unless one use another wc of course, get your fact straight. Yes ainz is curious about whether the game system still apply to the new world but his overall thinking is not center on the game especially when it came to death otherwise he wouldn't struggle mentally about killing shalltar.

That's true, only Longinus could erase someone's existence without them being able to resurrect unless someone uses another world class item on them; not every world class item.

[MonkeyDude]

Originally Posted by luffyxnami

First I have heard that when someone that got kill by any wc item, they can't be revive by an resurrection item. The only one that actually prevent resurrection was the Longinus one unless one use another wc of course, get your fact straight. Yes ainz is curious about whether the game system still apply to the new world but his overall thinking is not center on the game especially when it came to death otherwise he wouldn't struggle mentally about killing shalltar.

I'll humor you since we're discussing a different topic now. It was plainly stated that the only way to resist the effects of a WC item would be to use another WC item. The Longinus was mentioned as an extreme example of a WC requiring another WC to counteract its effects given the ability of data deletion, i.e. your character no longer exists in the game itself.

Well let's follow the facts as we know it shall we? Ainz used the super-tier spell [Wish Upon A Star] to try and break Shalltear's mind control caused by a WC item. We know that super-tier magic is above that of 10th rank magic. The super-tier magic failed to activate its effects. We can conclude from this experiment that only WC items can break the effects of another WC item.

Now let's get into the realm of supposition. Ainz stated that the only way to resist a WC item would be to have another WC item or a special class (which we know of to be one of the "World" classes like World Champion). He even mentioned it was absolute full stop. So how about players who died by way of a WC item that's not the Longinus? Well this one is tricky since all we know is that the "effect" of a WC item can only be resisted by another WC item. We can assume that a player that just so happened to by killed by a WC item can be revived by a regular revive, but not if the WC item itself confers the "death" status like the skill "Cry of the Banshee." If the effect of the WC item is character death, then a WC item is required to counteract that effect.

So if the enemy uses a WC item with the effect of killing the target, then the ring is useless. If the enemy uses the WC item that just so happened to kill him, then he can still be revived but any status effects it confers will still be on him at the time of revival, ergo the ring is still useless. Either way he'd need a WC item in his possession if he gets hit with a WC item to resist its effects.

That's getting my facts straight with a hint of educated guessing based on known facts. Though now I'm hungry...

[luffyxnami]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

I'll humor you since we're discussing a different topic now. It was plainly stated that the only way to resist the effects of a WC item would be to use another WC item. The Longinus was mentioned as an extreme example of a WC requiring another WC to counteract its effects given the ability of data deletion, i.e. your character no longer exists in the game itself.

Well let's follow the facts as we know it shall we? Ainz used the super-tier spell [Wish Upon A Star] to try and break Shalltear's mind control caused by a WC item. We know that super-tier magic is above that of 10th rank magic. The super-tier magic failed to activate its effects. We can conclude from this experiment that only WC items can break the effects of another WC item.

Now let's get into the realm of supposition. Ainz stated that the only way to resist a WC item would be to have another WC item or a special class (which we know of to be one of the "World" classes like World Champion). He even mentioned it was absolute full stop. So how about players who died by way of a WC item that's not the Longinus? Well this one is tricky since all we know is that the "effect" of a WC item can only be resisted by another WC item. We can assume that a player that just so happened to by killed by a WC item can be revived by a regular revive, but not if the WC item itself confers the "death" status like the skill "Cry of the Banshee." If the effect of the WC item is character death, then a WC item is required to counteract that effect.

So if the enemy uses a WC item with the effect of killing the target, then the ring is useless. If the enemy uses the WC item that just so happened to kill him, then he can still be revived but any status effects it confers will still be on him at the time of revival, ergo the ring is still useless. Either way he'd need a WC item in his possession if he gets hit with a WC item to resist its effects.

That's getting my facts straight with a hint of educated guessing based on known facts. Though now I'm hungry...

You do realize there is a fundamental differences between being dead permanently and reviving with some negative status effect right? Let said your assumption is true and if we follow it then that mean have ainz got hit wit a nuke like wc that causes massive damage and it kill him, then the ring should still be able to revive him even if he suffer some kind of status effect he can still get rid of it later, sure if he is hit by something wc like the Longinus than he is out of luck but if it's were you wouldn't you rather at least want to have a chance of reviving even with some side effect maybe or die permanently? In shalltar case it take two revive to get rid of the brain washing but it still work so the part about the wc effect being effective even after revival is stretchy.

[Schattenbach]

Originally Posted by God Slayer

I perfectly agree, if he wanted to concentrate more in the fight he could've just done so while thinking about not losing and sullying his guild name, or he could've thought that even if he did wear it he might not revive, so in other words he should've just wore it as a necessary precaution anyways; while thinking that he might not revive which would make him focus and concentrate more in the fight, that's all he needed to do, so it really was just a silly mistake on his part.

It's for creating fake suspense and drama, after all ... not for any logical reasons on the character's part.

[God Slayer]

Originally Posted by MonkeyDude

I'll humor you since we're discussing a different topic now. It was plainly stated that the only way to resist the effects of a WC item would be to use another WC item. The Longinus was mentioned as an extreme example of a WC requiring another WC to counteract its effects given the ability of data deletion, i.e. your character no longer exists in the game itself.

Well let's follow the facts as we know it shall we? Ainz used the super-tier spell [Wish Upon A Star] to try and break Shalltear's mind control caused by a WC item. We know that super-tier magic is above that of 10th rank magic. The super-tier magic failed to activate its effects. We can conclude from this experiment that only WC items can break the effects of another WC item.

Now let's get into the realm of supposition. Ainz stated that the only way to resist a WC item would be to have another WC item or a special class (which we know of to be one of the "World" classes like World Champion). He even mentioned it was absolute full stop. So how about players who died by way of a WC item that's not the Longinus? Well this one is tricky since all we know is that the "effect" of a WC item can only be resisted by another WC item. We can assume that a player that just so happened to by killed by a WC item can be revived by a regular revive, but not if the WC item itself confers the "death" status like the skill "Cry of the Banshee." If the effect of the WC item is character death, then a WC item is required to counteract that effect.

So if the enemy uses a WC item with the effect of killing the target, then the ring is useless. If the enemy uses the WC item that just so happened to kill him, then he can still be revived but any status effects it confers will still be on him at the time of revival, ergo the ring is still useless. Either way he'd need a WC item in his possession if he gets hit with a WC item to resist its effects.

That's getting my facts straight with a hint of educated guessing based on known facts. Though now I'm hungry...

The ring is NOT useless, did you forget the fact that Ainz already has a world class item with him as well? even if he didn't and it killed him with some effect then why would it be still on him? if for example a world class item that summons powerful monsters is used on Ainz and he gets killed by their attacks; why would their effects still be on him after he revives? the effects have been executed and used already, the only way your hypothetical situation works is if the effect is not something that kills him but curses him or puts some kind of a debuff on him, but even then the ring is not useless as he could remove the effect later on after he got revived, using world class items, but anyways even if the effects stay on (which for most WC items they likely won't); the fact that he has a world class item in the first place makes the ring extremely useful and valuable.

Edit: Also another thing that I forgot to mention which completely renders your idea of a world class item effect staying on somebody even after death irrelevant, is the fact that Shalltear was not killed by a world class item but nonetheless after she was revived; she doesn't have the effect of the mind control on her, which is not the simple effect of a world class item that kills her but an item that puts a heavy debuff on her which is mind control, so if that's the case then why would other world class item's effects especially ones that kill somebody stay on after death? unless it is the Longinus; if not then other world class item's effect should not stay.