The Syria Crisis

[KiraYamatoFan]

This administration at the White House better stop being a pussy with no sense of initiative whatsoever when it comes to dealing with ISIS. I just hate Russia and that punchable face named Putin getting the plaudits because they are the first to deploy men against ISIS. If you (the Western countries) can't go to Syria to attack them, then just unleash hell upon the other half of enemies that is sitting in Iraq with ground forces for starters.

About the refugee crisis, I don't know how people here stand on that. However, the more I read about stories of bad behavior from the migrants, the more I'm tempted to hope governments make sure only women, children and elderly stay while healthy men can all hit the bricks.

[SeijiSensei]

I'm guessing Putin will be getting something other than "plaudits" in a month or two after some Russian soldiers and airmen die accomplishing nothing. Like Tom Friedman in this morning's Times, I doubt this escalation will go well for Russia or Putin.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/30/op...and-putin.html

For instance, today’s reigning cliché is that the wily fox, President Vladimir Putin of Russia, has once again outmaneuvered the flat-footed Americans, by deploying some troops, planes and tanks to Syria to buttress the regime of President Bashar al-Assad and to fight the Islamic State forces threatening him. If only we had a president who was so daring, so tough, so smart.

Really? Well think about this: Let’s say the U.S. did nothing right now, and just let Putin start bombing ISIS and bolstering Assad. How long before every Sunni Muslim in the Middle East, not to mention every jihadist, has Putin’s picture in a bull’s eye on his cellphone?

This is from a guy who was a major cheerleader for the invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Also see: http://www.vox.com/2015/9/30/9426333...russia-problem

Putin has a big problem in Syria — one to which Western coverage of the Russian military intervention in Syria has not paid much attention.

Namely, the intervention is not at all popular with Russians themselves. Because Putin's personal popularity is key to his political longevity, that could be a very serious matter indeed for the Russian leader.

Problems like Syria are not amenable to military solutions, and the prospects for a political solution still seem rather remote.

[KiraYamatoFan]

Expecting another Afghanistan from Russia's position?

[ganbaru]

Russian warplanes target insurgents in Syria but not Islamic State
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...0RV41O20151001

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

I don't understand why the US is so insisting on removing Assad; let's face it, Putin has officially endorsed him and there is no longer any way America can remove the guy without threatening WW3. And Putin has all the reasons in the world to help his ally.

America doesn't really care that Assad killed people. That was never the reason. They wanted Assad gone to weaken Iran. But the fact is it is no longer possible and they should move on and focus on fighting ISIS instead. Assad is Putin's problem now and it does America no favours trying to cause more damage.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

I don't understand why the US is so insisting on removing Assad; let's face it, Putin has officially endorsed him and there is no longer any way America can remove the guy without threatening WW3. And Putin has all the reasons in the world to help his ally.

America doesn't really care that Assad killed people. That was never the reason. They wanted Assad gone to weaken Iran. But the fact is it is no longer possible and they should move on and focus on fighting ISIS instead. Assad is Putin's problem now and it does America no favours trying to cause more damage.

When the US demonizes someone to achieve a political objective it gets very difficult for them to be flexible about it afterwards (among other reasons), plus the conservative pro-Israel lobby and the Arabian Oil Sheikhs funding the Syrian opposition want Assad eliminated for their own reasons too.

[Newhope]

The US has really backed itself into a corner, for years now they have been training and arming ISIS and other radical groups to destabilise the region while demonising the same groups to cause fear to allow them to use there military, Now Putin has stepped in leaving the US with no recourse unless they want to start a war with Russia.

[SaintessHeart]

It is another Vietnam.

[Ithekro]

But who will blink first?

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

But who will blink first?

The Russians. Then the Americans will send the Marines. The Russians will send theirs.

Assad will cry.

[Ithekro]

As long as it does not spread or result in another Cold War (or worse) we should be fine. Well fine outside the Middle East.


Asia's western allies are worried more about China than the Russians, plus the unstable North Korea is an annoying factor.

I imagine Eastern Europe is a bit worried about the Russians flexing again.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

As long as it does not spread or result in another Cold War (or worse) we should be fine. Well fine outside the Middle East.

Everybody wants to keep the Mideast as it is because of oil. The world is too dependent on that black stuff - plastics or fuel.

Asia's western allies are worried more about China than the Russians, plus the unstable North Korea is an annoying factor.

I imagine Eastern Europe is a bit worried about the Russians flexing again.

Both the Asian and NATO allies wants the Americans to help them because they are the only ones in the last century crazy enough to pick a fight with all the factions of the Axis at once - Airborne in Europe, Marines in Pacific and the Armoured Corps in Africa. The British were like "Oh Asia and Africa is our main theatre, sorry lads" and the French, Dutch and Russians were "occupied" with Germany. The Americans sailed halfway across the world so they could participate in every barfight around the world.

Not sure if the Americans would want to do it again this century. But given how trigger happy and fight addicted the culture is, I'd say if China and Russia would want to form a Red Star Alliance, the Americans would sail halfway across the world again to participate in the next major conflict, Congress approval or not.

[Ithekro]

The Americans can afford to do so, not because of money, but because it keeps the fighting from happening in the Americas. The two Oceans are a good defense, but not as much as it use to be.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

The Americans can afford to do so, not because of money, but because it keeps the fighting from happening in the Americas. The two Oceans are a good defense, but not as much as it use to be.

That and gun ownership. Every other place gun owners get a few and small selection set at high prices, while in US people can actually buy guns from corner shops and ammo at Walmart.

Any country invading the US would have to contemplate with Reserves AND a gun-crazy civilian militia. Any victory would have been pyhrric.

[Bri]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

I imagine Eastern Europe is a bit worried about the Russians flexing again.

(Eastern) Europe is far more worried about the wave of migrants now fleeing the Middle East. If the Russians can crush the rebel groups and restore stability which allows the refugees to return home, Putin will gain some major political leverage.

[risingstar3110]

Well, Putin did make a good point about 'who is buying ISIS oil, and shouldn't crack them down the first step to combat ISIS"? I believe the US CIA should be more than capable to do this. I means these are not some tiny diamond, or elephant trunk that are carried through commercial airline and can't be tracked. Don't know the exact number, but there should be truckloads of these moving around, don't they?

I don't know. Even if assume that there was no secret US agenda. Then what could be the worst thing coming off Russian intervention? Assad will become another Saddam and oppress his people. Which, I will be honest, won't really sticking out considering the political climate in in Middle East right now.

But then you look at the alternative: which of what is happening right now. Without the Russian intervention, we already allowed the existence of probably one of the worst terrorist group in modern history of mankind to exist. It also is no longer regional issue, considering the European refugee crisis currently is happening.

So why Russia through? Simply because they willing to work with the Assad government. And you simply can't defeat ISIS without proper ground troops. Unless any country willing to send tens of thousands of group troops to fight ISIS. The only way to get through this is US do their part in supporting the Iraq government, and Russia in Syria

[AnimeFan188]

Russia Intercepts U.S. Drones Over Syria, Launches Cruise
Missiles From Caspian:

"Russia has upped the ante once again in Syria over the last 24 hours,
launching cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea at targets in Syria.
Meanwhile, information has come to light about a series of intercepts
made on U.S. Predator and Reaper drones by Russian fighters
operating all over the war-torn country.

Russia’s shadowing and intercepting of U.S. drones operating over
Syria first appeared as a fluke to U.S. officials, but as they continued
to happen it became clear that Russia was actively searching for the
defenseless unmanned surveillance aircraft. These intercepts have
supposedly occurred over ISIS’s stronghold in Raqqa, the embattled
northwest city of Aleppo, and near the Syrian-Turkish border, around
Kobani."

See:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/rus...rui-1735207541

[AnimeFan188]

Report: Russian Cruise Missiles Destined For Syria Crash
In Iran:

"Yesterday, Russia fired off no less than 26 of its new Kalibr cruise
missiles from ships in the Caspian Sea, all were aimed at 11 targets in
Syria. Because of their launching location, the missiles had to fly through
northwest Iran and northern Iraq to make it to their targets in Syria.
CNN reports that a number of cruise missiles belonging to Russia have
crashed in Iran on their way to their targets in Syria."

See:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/rep...ian-1735451146

[Newhope]

It's already been confirmed that all 26 missiles hit there targets.

[risingstar3110]

This whole thing is exactly what was so wrong with the world right now.

Western government, under the public ignorance, made decisions at the state interest: to undermine, topple or weaken dictatorship government who strength may pose problems on their geopolitical landscape (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Lybia, etc...). These results in these nations plunging in chaos, lead to the terrorists and refugee crisis as we speak. And they in turn caused negative public opinion in the West, and destroy the empathy of Western public towards the people from these regions.

I means honestly, if you give the most right wing family in Europe and US the option between toppling Assad government, or receiving all of these refugees. Most won't give a f*ck about Assad, if that results in a Syrian refugee moving into the neighborhood.

The left meanwhile mostly won't care