(L+CR) Sakurako-san no Ashimoto ni wa Shitai ga Umatteiru

[Yu Ominae]

Marcus is merely wondering if you seriously said A/Z as a detective story or not.

[Marcus H.]

Yeah, didn't watch the thing (no plans either) so I can't understand the connection between A/Z and Sakurako aside from the studio.

[RobotCat]

"The morning sun cheers people up"

Yeaaah...no. When I see the morning sun it just brings up bad memories of either a mmo raid taking way too long or that the programming project is due in 2 hours and I'm still not done.

As much as I gripe about American TV pumping out 5 new police procedurals every season, at least they have very solid formula down that makes for entertaining television even if the setup is something you've seen a thousands times before.

Banter: Most police procedurals straddle between drama and comedy, sometimes going one way or the other, but it's still usually full of witty banter. Sakurako-san has too little of it in lieu of drama, but considering how boring Shoutarou is as a protagonist, it doesn't quite work. Sakurako-san is a pretty stock character, but she has enough interesting qualities that could work if Shoutarou works as her foil, but he pretty much fails in that regard. In fact, the TV shows Bones that a lot of people are referring to when talking about this show has a female lead that's similar to Sakurako-san in many aspects. However, the male lead Boothe does a way better job of bring out the chemistry between the two leads and providing a huge source of the witty banter the show is known for. The supporting cast is extremely strong in that regards too.

Mystery: Police procedurals have pretty much exhausted the staple setups. I can't count how many shows I've seen do the episode with a twin being mistaken for the killer, or a husband with multiple secret families that don't know each other. However, the good ones always do a twist or play around with the trope to make it interesting. Sakurako-san's setups are pretty standard. Frankly this episode would have worked a lot better as a season finale after we've got to learn about the girl a bit more. Especially if the disappearance of her grandma was a constant source of grief in her character that we got to glimpse as she got to known Shoutarou better.

Suspects: They're actually incredibly important in establishing the draw of an episode. The suspects offer character personalities that your main cast is lacking, and play an important part of furthering the narrative and plot twists. They are part of the 'spice' that makes each episode feel different even if you've seen this same plot line used before. So far in three mysteries Sakurako-san only has had one 'suspect', and he was just a drugged up boyfriend that appeared at the end. I think the 20 minute limitation makes it hard for this show to introduce interesting suspects unless they start doing 2 parters.

Niche Scene: This is really important in making an episode feel distinct. Having the victim be part of a non-mainstream scene is a great way to pull the viewer's attention. I mean, everyone always talks about the MMO/VR episodes of those police procedurals, no matter how inaccurate they are. This also ties into the 'suspects' aspect, as having your suspects or victim be part of a weird scene makes them a lot more interesting than another regular joe getting murdered. I think one of the weirdest niche scenes I've come across that still remains in my mind is the Bones episode where they investigate a private sex club where all the male members dress up like horses and their female dominatrices ride and 'train' them.

Serial Killers: These are almost a too easy way to capture your audience. All the major police procedurals have long arcs dealing with serial killers, and they are often the best episodes. The public is generally fascinated with them. Criminal Minds is a police procedural consisting almost entirely of serial killer cases. The real life cases are often more bizarre than anything writers have come up with, hence the constant tv and movies about them. It's also a great way to deal with the limited time frame of a 20-minute anime episode, as they don't have to wrap up anything and it'll be a constant cliffhanger to get the viewer to tune in for next week. Considering how a lot of people use the 3-episode rule, I'd think if they had a serial killer story, starting it now would have been a great way to entice the viewer on the third episode.

The show still looks great but having watched so many police procedurals already the plot and characters just doesn't do it for me. I think I'll give it one more episode to see if they take it somewhere more interesting.

[Flower]

Originally Posted by Haak

The mystery side of the show may not be all that great but the human drama behind them can be and this was no exception.

Taking care of a relative with dementia can be an enormously difficult burden and there are plenty of that people that can't cope.

It may have merely been informed rather than shown but it's probably the first time I've ever seen drama based on the complications of old age.

I'm surprised the guy was still capable of painting so well though (or were those only paintings he made in the past?)

Pretty much my thoughts on ep 3 here, with an addition that the pace of this episode felt a teensy too hurried for my tastes, and I feel the pace contributed to the feeling of the at the fringe of my consciousness that the drama was a smidgeon too heavy at times.

Using the Gosick model, though, I am continuing the series not because of the solving murders and the like, but because of the "human drama" side of things mentioned above. I never expected the aspect of solving murders to be convincing or realistic...again, very similarly to my experience of Gosick.

I did like that Sakurako got a talking to by the police, though, and the visuals continue to be positively gorgeous.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Yeah, didn't watch the thing (no plans either) so I can't understand the connection between A/Z and Sakurako aside from the studio.

To answer your curiosity, Aldnoah Zero is a mecha show that relies on the stupidity of other characters (be it enemies or allies) to exemplify the MC's own intelligence, like Elestia said. It’s really bad that in one scene, Inaho (the teenage highschool boy MC) need to tell senior military officers how to use smoke grenades properly in battle *facepalm*. I like the MC’s resourcefulness in A/Z but I hate how they made the actual military-men incompetent in combat even though they use the same weapons and pilot the same giant-robots as the MC (just imagine a worse version of Mahouka, only with more actual battles and mechs). But I think Sakurako hasn't reached that level yet. I still quite enjoy it so far, just like Gosick before it.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

episode 3
What with that polices and "suicide'?? why every time i see that fat guy they aways thing it was a "suicide"?? this is so common in that country???

Normally in my country suicide is the last thing to be used.

Is not that hard which more things could happen than just suicide, like accident or even a murder, like someone could had come from behind and in surprise pushed her.

And for the peoples which where complain over how the police is passive with her, here the fat guy actually did something behind her back.

I'm start to hate that fat police guy he is really annoying, he asked her to do her work that time and he don't liked it, then why he asked??? trying to be sarcastic??

This guy is really annoying.

Yes, suicide is THAT common in that country (well in recent years, suicide rate goes down a little, but it was and still is mayor issue).

As for detective, he didn't listen her at all. He just said he would listen to get her out of venue... which is exactly place she has no right be at in first place.

Originally Posted by the one above all

I don't get why the police were so adamant about it suicide and didn't consider anything else. I mean, when I first saw the corpse the first thing that came to my mind was that she slipped and fell off the cliff. Yet everyone else seems sure it's was suicide.

Well at least we see more of Sakurako's human side and see her empathize with someone else. The police also finally gave her what I assume was a stern lecture.

Well, she left in middle of night without telling anyone. Suicide looks like pretty reasonable motive.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by the one above all

I don't get why the police were so adamant about it suicide and didn't consider anything else. I mean, when I first saw the corpse the first thing that came to my mind was that she slipped and fell off the cliff. Yet everyone else seems sure it's was suicide.

Suicide is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, though. There's not much to contraindicate it. Yes, she could've picked a higher cliff to jump off of, but to the police ... well, she's elderly, and the suicide seemed to be an impulse decision driven by her incredibly heavy burden of caring for her dementia-suffering husband, so she probably picked the first high point she knew and jumped off that. If the family thinks differently, well, they're not the authorities here; are they?

Well at least we see more of Sakurako's human side and see her empathize with someone else. The police also finally gave her what I assume was a stern lecture.

Indeed. I'm glad the show's writers decided to hang a lampshade on that particular bare trope, though I'm surprised they left Shoutarou Boy standing around like a slack-jawed yokel.

But, yes, we see a little more of Sakurako's human side (which, really, has been trickling out since the very first episode.) Then again, this show is about the relationships, more than it is about the mysteries (even though the studio is determined to milk the "let's solve the mystery" CGI bones shot for all it's worth ... it must've cost them a metric shit-ton of budget.) Like Kyoto Animation's Hyouka from a few years ago, it's an absurdly pretty slice-of-life show masquerading as a mystery series (Disclaimer: I've not read the source material, so I can only go off of what I'm watching.)

Anyway ... in this episode ... good heavens, there was a lot of ship-tease and teen boy gaze whirling around Sakurako-san and her pet dog Boy. I like how she, and her housekeeper, both nakedly manipulate Boy with the promise of watermelons. Although I was a bit uncomfortable at the ship-tease; being that he's a minor, and she's an adult (engaged to be married, no less.) Fortunately, it still doesn't go anywhere; and if anything Sakurako-san suggests he's a heartless fun-sucker.

What did make me happy is that she offered a bit of closure for Boy's friend.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Yes, suicide is THAT common in that country (well in recent years, suicide rate goes down a little, but it was and still is mayor issue).

As for detective, he didn't listen her at all. He just said he would listen to get her out of venue... which is exactly place she has no right be at in first place.



Well, she left in middle of night without telling anyone. Suicide looks like pretty reasonable motive.

well being common don't just means which they can just already decid it being a suicide without a proper investigation, they don't know the grandmam personality if she was a happy or depressed person, they don't tried to check if the high place could be high enough to really lead to a deth( as sakurako told unless she jumped of head or had hit a rock or something which could lead her to death, that place was a bad choice to suicide cuz could lead to a very slow and painfull death.
before clam being a "suicide a responsability officer could wait the autopsy and gate more info before come and say "it's just another suicide", the same in previous case of the couple where they also goes to "suicide" again without a proper exam and autopsy and others things they just goes with the "easy route" that show how much they are really wanting to investigate the case.

Originally Posted by GMT

Suicide is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis, though. There's not much to contraindicate it. Yes, she could've picked a higher cliff to jump off of, but to the police ... well, she's elderly, and the suicide seemed to be an impulse decision driven by her incredibly heavy burden of caring for her dementia-suffering husband, so she probably picked the first high point she knew and jumped off that. If the family thinks differently, well, they're not the authorities here; are they?

Like my answer above, they where supposed to do a proper investigation before claim being a suicide, cuz you know a person dying from a murder or from a accident and sucide have different effects on the left family, being a accident could do much less impact as we see in the girl than a suicide, then they doing a "bad job" just to save paperwork or time is not a excuse.

To be fair I don't have problem with police doing crap job, I'm pretty used with this in almost every mystery or detective fiction this is a common tropper what annoying me is which they keep using the same "excuse", say "it was a suicide one time fine, 2 times annoying, now imagine if in next case appear a headless body full of bullet sginals and the fat "stupid police detective come and say "it was a suicide"???, it's more like if they keep pulling "suicide to more cases, don't only make then look crap or dumbas but maybe also corrupted or toooooo lazy, cuz they gonna basically call almost every case a suicide, that was my problem, I can be fine if they pull others bad theory but keep using the same "suicide" could be too forced and that is what I'm true afraid.

I like sakurako better than previous seasons mystery animes this look more like my style what i don't like is the "over use" of the same excuse.

[GDiddy]

I seriously thought the cops had arrested Sakurako for a second....

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Flower

I did like that Sakurako got a talking to by the police, though, and the visuals continue to be positively gorgeous.

Well, not so much "the police" as "her fiance", I guess...

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Well, not so much "the police" as "her fiance", I guess...

not only her fiance but also uncle she actually have a good backup in police in case someone think in arrest her, she could not pass more than half a day before leave based on how important they made her uncle look.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

well being common don't just means which they can just already decid it being a suicide without a proper investigation, they don't know the grandmam personality if she was a happy or depressed person, they don't tried to check if the high place could be high enough to really lead to a deth( as sakurako told unless she jumped of head or had hit a rock or something which could lead her to death, that place was a bad choice to suicide cuz could lead to a very slow and painfull death.
before clam being a "suicide a responsability officer could wait the autopsy and gate more info before come and say "it's just another suicide", the same in previous case of the couple where they also goes to "suicide" again without a proper exam and autopsy and others things they just goes with the "easy route" that show how much they are really wanting to investigate the case.

Like my answer above, they where supposed to do a proper investigation before claim being a suicide, cuz you know a person dying from a murder or from a accident and sucide have different effects on the left family, being a accident could do much less impact as we see in the girl than a suicide, then they doing a "bad job" just to save paperwork or time is not a excuse.

To be fair I don't have problem with police doing crap job, I'm pretty used with this in almost every mystery or detective fiction this is a common tropper what annoying me is which they keep using the same "excuse", say "it was a suicide one time fine, 2 times annoying, now imagine if in next case appear a headless body full of bullet sginals and the fat "stupid police detective come and say "it was a suicide"???, it's more like if they keep pulling "suicide to more cases, don't only make then look crap or dumbas but maybe also corrupted or toooooo lazy, cuz they gonna basically call almost every case a suicide, that was my problem, I can be fine if they pull others bad theory but keep using the same "suicide" could be too forced and that is what I'm true afraid.

I like sakurako better than previous seasons mystery animes this look more like my style what i don't like is the "over use" of the same excuse.

They did proper investigation (well, we can't say for sure how proper it was, but it was very simple case, so going through all procedures wouldn't take much effort anyway). From flow of episode it took at least several days before police closed case. And let's be honest, it doesn't matter whether cliff was high enough, all that matter if person trying commit suicide THINK it is. Most suicide attempts are botched anyway. Plus her circumistances gave lot of credibility to that conclusion.

As for previous case, apparently that policeman is not specialist on forensic . But that doesn't matter because police HAS professionals for that. If investigator decided threat it as double suicide AFTER results of autopsy, THAN you would have right calling him incompetent. But all he did was mentioning was his professional opinion, which by no mean was final.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by the one above all

I don't get why the police were so adamant about it suicide and didn't consider anything else. I mean, when I first saw the corpse the first thing that came to my mind was that she slipped and fell off the cliff. Yet everyone else seems sure it's was suicide.

Pretty much this. I was just waiting for Sakurako to roll her eyes and say "look you guys, she fell."

This episode was painful to watch. The first five minutes, every moment was excruciating with either the couple's mannerisms or silly tourism interjections. Sakurako is probably worse than your random moe blob when she switches to her socially awkward behavior. It's as if she's autistic, but not really, she's like that just because. The show obviously became self-conscious with the stupid "shounen" thing, it made me throw up in the mouth when Shoutarou complained about it. And thinking home-stock melons will attract more tourists to Hokkaido smells of desperation, just saying.

The mystery surrounding the death was plain as a day, but the feels at the end were real. If only Kougami didn't have a mental breakdown every few minutes, the drama wouldn't felt as forced.

Overall a poor episode and I'm thinking of dropping the show. Actually, fuck it, it's done. The first episode was way better than this.

[Yu Ominae]

I doubt this'll stay up very long:

At least the OP OST is already out.

[SeijiSensei]

Japan ranks 17th among countries by its overall suicide rate. Among developed countries only Russia, Lithuania and South Korea rank higher.

That said, it was an implausible explanation from the beginning. She simply left her afflicted husband because she couldn't care for him any more? Why couldn't she get help like shoujo-san's family did? Women are generally less likely to commit suicide than men, too. In Japan men kill themselves about 2.7 times more often than women and the most common reasons are losing one's job and becoming divorced.

I find the hints of a romantic or sexual relationship between the mains just icky. We have scenes like Sakurako pressing Shoutarou's face up against her ample breast as she drags him through the forest, or Shoutarou staring at her cleavage. The hand-holding scenes are annoying, too, given how often they are used to symbolize some type of initial romantic connection in anime. I get that Sakurako is immature, but really, she's at least ten years older than the "shounen." Is this supposed to make the show more appealing to horny teen boys in the audience? I'd be much happier if she were to end up with the biology teacher; I'm sure the girl would be happier if that happened as well.

I'll give this one more episode, but so far it seems too cliched to be very compelling. I also find the skeleton-of-the-week premise pretty hard to take. Sure there's a tradition in detective fiction of the protagonist suddenly finding himself involved in a mystery purely by chance, but most of Holmes's cases came about because potential clients sought him out, not because he happened to stumble over a corpse in a wooded area.

[IceHism]

I thought she is 22 and shoutarou is 17. Thats only 5 years which isnt much.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by IceHism

I thought she is 22 and shoutarou is 17. Thats only 5 years which isnt much.

She certainly looks a lot older than that. I'd have guessed 28 given her character model.

Also does it bother anyone else that the words "autopsy" and "coroner" are never mentioned in this story?

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Japan ranks 17th among countries by its overall suicide rate. Among developed countries only Russia, Lithuania and South Korea rank higher.

That said, it was an implausible explanation from the beginning. She simply left her afflicted husband because she couldn't care for him any more? Why couldn't she get help like shoujo-san's family did? Women are generally less likely to commit suicide than men, too. In Japan men kill themselves about 2.7 times more often than women and the most common reasons are losing one's job and becoming divorced.

Not really, just leaving her husband in hand of random people isn't something anyone would do so she would take care for him... until point she reached her limit. It's very plasauble. Women in general don't commit suicide as often as men, but granny had all reason do so.

I find the hints of a romantic or sexual relationship between the mains just icky. We have scenes like Sakurako pressing Shoutarou's face up against her ample breast as she drags him through the forest, or Shoutarou staring at her cleavage. The hand-holding scenes are annoying, too, given how often they are used to symbolize some type of initial romantic connection in anime. I get that Sakurako is immature, but really, she's at least ten years older than the "shounen." Is this supposed to make the show more appealing to horny teen boys in the audience? I'd be much happier if she were to end up with the biology teacher; I'm sure the girl would be happier if that happened as well.

I'll give this one more episode, but so far it seems too cliched to be very compelling. I also find the skeleton-of-the-week premise pretty hard to take. Sure there's a tradition in detective fiction of the protagonist suddenly finding himself involved in a mystery purely by chance, but most of Holmes's cases came about because potential clients sought him out, not because he happened to stumble over a corpse in a wooded area.

It's five or six years not ten, but even if it was ten why it's problem? Soutarou is quite mature and it's not like he is shota or anything. Even if they got together it would be completely legal and in their case also quite sweet.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

I also find the skeleton-of-the-week premise pretty hard to take. Sure there's a tradition in detective fiction of the protagonist suddenly finding himself involved in a mystery purely by chance, but most of Holmes's cases came about because potential clients sought him out, not because he happened to stumble over a corpse in a wooded area.

Seiji Ojiisan, have you seen Detective Conan or Kindaichi Case series? The number of "encountering a case by accident" in this series is not even a fraction of what those wellknown series have. So yeah, that's how Japanese anime detective stories usually told .

[Draco Spirit]

I bet if you gender flipped the two leads, there be less comments on the age gap....

Sherlock and Watson dynamics are rife for romance by there very nature, since there already a element of being two half's of one whole, which is always a solid foundation for romance.

Through at this stage I be far more concerned about the fact she's engaged to someone else! The off screen fiancée likely going to make a impact when he turns up. It's also looking suspiciously like it's one of those matches that more to do with social statues and family connections than love, considering how little she goes on about him and how little there around each other...

He probably turn up in episode nine or something to kick-start the end plotline and push the male lead into doing something about his feelings and the nature of his bond with Sakurako.