(L) Overlord [LN]

[sierra117]

Originally Posted by deathcoy

Well this is not a shounen novel afterall. The protagonist is a working adult and not a adolescent teenager so don't expect shounen characters. I believe adults are way more complicated and complex beings than children and teenagers.
I do know some readers who aren't interested in Overlord and its MC but then enjoying reading 35th Test Platoon, Magika no Kenshi to Shoukan Maou, Index, Highschool DxD, Hunter x Hunter, FMA, Magi, Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei etc which yes, are all shounen and their MC ain't working adults. So Overlord is definitely not their cup of tea.

well. i had read all of those above but i'm still absolutely ok with Overlord

[dragonking9]

let put that aside for the moment.we cannot force a person to change his view of someone else.something much more important i want to discuss than other people morals.

it anger me greatly when i read statement that say that Ainz think this is a game!
Let me clearly say this to you:Ainz definitely doesn't think this is a game.All his paranoid and cautious behaviour is because he doesn't think this a game and that everything is very real.why do you think he desperately try to strengthen Nazarick! All this to protect himself and his servant.In the game world he wouldn't care if he died a few times or if any of the npc die.But now even if he possess many revival ways he doesn't want to get killed or let even a little harm fall to his precious servants.He would even willingly abandon Nazarick just to save them.It's stated in the novels a couple times already that he clearly knows that everything is real.That's why he tried so hard for them and doing his best to survive.Also trying to create a place where his npc could forever live in peace without worrying that humans would hunt them down if the day ever come when he is no longer with them.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Saphirra

Oh now switching from hate to not care, ok I will follow your logic. Like I said above he doesn't care because he think it's a game but in fact it's not a game, he knows it and he just denies the fact. He feels the emotion called "lonely", but does an zero-emotion undead know "lonely"? he only cares about his lost guilt, always ranting so sad so sad but he doesn't even try to find new things in his now reality.

Ainz does not denied this is NOT a game. There were never any point outside of vol1 briefly that he thought he was still in the game.

Ainz does not hate humans, he just doesn't care about them. He thinks of human the same way you or i would think of a ant. He treat killing 100k+ humans the same way you or i would treat stepping on some ants and crushing. Absolutely NOTHING.

His killing Gazef is ok, but the way he want to recruit him, what ? He does not dislike him, what ? Isn't he suppose to be indifferent to all kind of human ? Or the special case which resembles Touch Me made him reminisce the past too much ? I call him hypocrisy because of that.

Gazef is a useful tool if he recruit him, since recruitment fail. Ainz did the pragmatic thing which kill him. That is not hypocrisy just common sense.

[Saphirra]

Hah, Hate or Indifferent don't differ much for me, I use the "hate" word cause many want to use the "undead hating living being" or"he's simply an overlord" excuse and I prove it won't work. I use the "indifferent","don't care" words cause someone use the "he think Yggdrasil human are different/just pepble on the road" excuse and the only explanation for the quick unatural changed mind is he's just a gamer; if you could give me another explanation then I will happily consider it, if not then your talking's not very persuasive. I use the "illogical action without purpose based on convenient emotion, the author just try to make him do cruel act as an overlord","overkill" or simply "he's just a paranoid psychopath" word for those who want to use the "he did it all for Narzarik" excuse. All statements must have a backing explanation to seem persuasive , I see all you just pull is statement.

I do know some readers who aren't interested in Overlord and its MC but then enjoying reading 35th Test Platoon, Magika no Kenshi to Shoukan Maou, Index, Highschool DxD, Hunter x Hunter, FMA, Magi, Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei etc which yes, are all shounen and their MC ain't working adults. So Overlord is definitely not their cup of tea.

Lol, don't give me the shounen, seinen reason here. Naive, stupid and only know how to scream MC is bad but cold-blood MC is also not very good and a psychopath is definitely not good (in my opinion, you like it or not is another matter, but that's not what I want to discuss here). It make me laugh to imagine it as you say someone is not a child cause he know how to be cold-blood or to be adult all you must know is how to kill and no other way out to solve the problem. Is that how your "adult world" you mention work ?

EDIT: Even if Ainz' is a bit too paranoid from our POV, he kinda has every reason to behave that way. He is aware that a skeleton, an undead monster, is something that most people would attack on sight. And in the game he was even hunted down "for fun", just because of his race. The people doing so knew that they were doing this to another player, but that didn't stop them... And since he has to consider that there might be no more respawns for him... can you fault him for wanting to play it safe?
As for the rest of the way you characterise him... I don't see how he's a hypocrite or mentally unstable. He only appears "weak-willed" because he doesn't want to turn the guardians against him by not being the kind of leader the expect him to be. And even if he might be a tad selfish, who isn't?

Paranoid is a fact, too much obsession and screaming in rage for every little reason if anyone "touch" his "beloved home" is not a thing reasonable mentally stable people do while not caring for other people's reason at all is over the roof selfish, not a tad bit, well who's not selfish against pepble ?. The way he treat other player who is equal with him is nothing worth to mention, but the ways he treat his "ants" is not so good here, playsafe is different from overkill. Hypocrisy goes along with selfish. He does not appear to be weak-willed, he is.

The moral is just my complaining, just because someone try to use explanation to justify his action that I twist their logic a little bit. And the main problem is:

The question is all the convenient excuse the author pulled to justify the all the unatural change in his mind, his humanity. It's like once he transport, his mind/soul suddenly change into an undead (I require an explaination which could be understood here, not the cause "he's an undead, he has no feeling" which I already said as why it's bullshit above) while all his past-life experience disappear like it doesn't exist and not affect him anymore at all.

It's not like it's easy to do all that act once his emotion went down the hole except his mind is not normal from the beginning

[Mangafreak44]

Ainz does not really care for humans in the fact that he has become an undead. That is one of the key points that no one can ignore and I don't get why you say that him becoming undead shouldn't effect him.

A lot of our emotional responses are responsible for our actions and in the case of Ainz whenever he feels a strong emotion, any strong emotion, from happiness to guilt to sadness, etc. it is suppressed. That means that as time goes on he starts to care less and less about everyone. And then you have to go to the fact that he has become his avatar. Notice that menus to use his skills don't appear anymore, they have been turned into actual knowledge that he can use. Our bodies influence our minds that is unavoidable, and Ainz's body is that of an undead with an extremley evil alignment, being influenced by his body is an understandable thing.

He doesn't care about any human or monster. The only reason he even cares about some monsters are that they are not native to Yggdrasil so he wants to collect them to study them to find more differences between the game and the new world. He only cares about the people in Nazarick. For him it is very much a them vs us situation where the entire world is in the "them" category. We have shown throughout history that humans can regularly show little empathy for those that they consider enemies dyeing in vast amounts, so in the case of Ainz whose own emotional response has been dulled, not caring at all for what happens to humans is understandable even when he kills tens of thousands of them at a single moment. At that point they are an enemy to be destroyed.

[dragonking9]

many people are saying that Ainz is weak willed. i find that not completely true.It comes in different forms. In my eyes he is very strong and brave. Any normal person would have already collapse from the pressure of ruling such huge dungeon and facing so many unknown,also ending in a new world and facing many enemies. He is doing his best to try to rule and using all his time and energy to improve himself and wreck his brain trying to think of ideas. So a person facing it head on like this cannot be called weak willed. His fear of disappointing his minions is more his own view of life. In his mind he is like a father to him and according to him such a person must not destroy the idol image his children have for him.He has never taken care of anyone before in his life and also never been a boss when he was working,so you must understand that he doesn't want to disappoint the people that place their hope on him.

In volume 3 he took of his ring that allow him to resurrect and without even knowing what would happen if he died in the unknown world he still confront his fear to fight Shalltear.I love that part in the novel. In other parts he keep scolding himself that he had to try harder. In the latest one he said:grow a damn spine! He did not run away or escape from reality. How can you judge someone like that to be Weak willed...................

[deathcoy]

Originally Posted by Saphirra

Lol, don't give me the shounen, seinen reason here. Naive, stupid and only know how to scream MC is bad but cold-blood MC is also not very good and a psychopath is definitely not good (in my opinion, you like it or not is another matter, but that's not what I want to discuss here). It make me laugh to imagine it as you say someone is not a child cause he know how to be cold-blood or to be adult all you must know is how to kill and no other way out to solve the problem. Is that how your "adult world" you mention work ?

Well, thats why i said adults are way more complicated and complex beings. Thats what makes them unique from each other. Me, i was in the military so i guess you could say i was cold blooded and trained to kill then, while on the other hand after leaving the army and now a civilian white collar worker who has integrated back to society i have to be amiable to my customers and able to negotiate with my clients, i can't point a rifle at them or just shout and force them to do push ups.

Basically we all have to adapt and change according to our situation and surroundings in order to live and survive, which i believe is the same situation for Satoru Suzuki/Momonga. Some of your pass knowledge, experience, habits, personality can be applied to the new and some just won't fit, so one has to adapt, failing that, the situation will eventually force one to change. You could say i'm the reversed situation of Satoru Suzuki/Momonga.

This brings about the point of shounen transported/reincarnated to a new world or mmo where quite a number of them have the concept of 'whatever experience/personality i had in my previous life can be applied fully in the new world'. I feel this is sometimes utterly ridiculous, realistically. Yes your previous life experience, train of thoughts and personality can be of use to a certain extend but there is definitely a need to adapt and change. After all your surroundings and situation are also the factors and reason that shapes and changes a person.

[Namorax]

If he isn't so "weakwilled", why doesn't he admit that the guardians have hopelessly exaggerated/overestimated opinions of him?

Ainz himself admitted that most of the time he has no idea what the guardians are planning, even though they assume that whatever they do is what Ainz planned along time ago...
He also doesn't put a stop to certain plans of their even though he isn't sure whether or not he wants to go along with those plans, like world domination.

[Breimn]

If a literal genius tells you something is done in a certain way you should trust his opinion more than your own. He still tries to not make him go overboard like torturing children if possible. Releasing them unfortunately was not an option cause modify memory magic requires too much mana.

[Namorax]

Well, put them on the 8th floor then... or the 4th if you're feeling generous. It's not like they can escape from there, and they can more or less life a normal live, surrounded by non-humans who want to kill them just because.
Not that different from the outside, if you think about it...

Also, there are quite a few hints that Demiurge is doing unspeakable things to children... or at least to families. Ainz is simply not knowing about this (or chooses to not know about this).

Thinking about it... Ainz seems to be a person who tries to avoid conflicts, seeing how he never assumed a position in any argument/conversation he held with the other guildmembers. He's doing the same when he interacts with the guardians: He never says "No" or "Yes" if you think about it.
The "most controversial thing" he did was the decision to call himself "Ainz Ooal Gown".

[overlord]

Spoiler for black scriptures anime:

Your thoughts after seeing this?

[Breimn]

My toughts? Here they are : that is a picture for ants.

[Darkligh]

Originally Posted by overlord

Spoiler for black scriptures anime:

Your thoughts after seeing this?

My thoughts are. Need BIGGER VERSION

[Namorax]

There is no way to proove/see that you made a mistake! xD

[dragonking9]

Originally Posted by Namorax

Well, put them on the 8th floor then... or the 4th if you're feeling generous. It's not like they can escape from there, and they can more or less life a normal live, surrounded by non-humans who want to kill them just because.
Not that different from the outside, if you think about it...

Also, there are quite a few hints that Demiurge is doing unspeakable things to children... or at least to families. Ainz is simply not knowing about this (or chooses to not know about this).

Thinking about it... Ainz seems to be a person who tries to avoid conflicts, seeing how he never assumed a position in any argument/conversation he held with the other guildmembers. He's doing the same when he interacts with the guardians: He never says "No" or "Yes" if you think about it.
The "most controversial thing" he did was the decision to call himself "Ainz Ooal Gown".

well,he did say the best thing he did was inventing that slime bad.

[bakato]

Ainz's moral transformation isn't evil or good.

Humans were irrelevant. Perhaps Ainz had once been a human, but this body he had now felt no sympathy or closeness to them. It was as though they were a whole other species that could be casually kicked out of the way with one foot. He would slaughter any number of humans for the benefit of the Great Underground Tomb of Nazarick. Even then, killing children still upset him. This was a vestige of the man who had once been Suzuki Satoru.

He doesn't hate them or like them. He just doesn't care.

[Namorax]

How does that one quote go?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing don't care"

I think the crux is that evil depends on the perspective. Do any of Nazarick's Inhabitants "define" themselves as evil? (Let's ignore the Chuuni)
I think they simply life life their way, and it's just the pesky humans who shout "evil".

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Namorax

How does that one quote go?

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing don't care"

I think the crux is that evil depends on the perspective. Do any of Nazarick's Inhabitants "define" themselves as evil? (Let's ignore the Chuuni)
I think they simply life life their way, and it's just the pesky humans who shout "evil".

Newsflash. He isn't a man. And that quote doesn't hold weight if you change it. Also, it's not that he doesn't care. He is incapable of caring.

Actually, they do.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Namorax

I think the crux is that evil depends on the perspective. Do any of Nazarick's Inhabitants "define" themselves as evil? (Let's ignore the Chuuni)
I think they simply life life their way, and it's just the pesky humans who shout "evil".

not just Nazarick,

the beastman who see human as livestock and food, don't see themselves as evil either.

and the Theocracy who raid and enslave demi-human races don't see themselves as evil either.

[bakato]

I've reread volume 7 and now I have a new concern. This Rigrit apparently beat Evileye with ease. Is it possible she could beat a pleiades?