Heavy Object - Old Anime Discussion Thread

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The point is, he is still in a dangerous situation which goes against your comment that the danger has passed.

Also, let me paraphrase Akame ga Kill here (itself a silly show, but there are things it gets right): "one should not let his/her guard down after doing dangerous mission until he/she arrived safely at his/her base (or at least until he/she are safely on the way back to his/her base)"

Those are two different points.

The object threat was eliminated but the size of the explosion wave was something he didn't consider. Not an unrealistic mistake for an amateur.

[Five_Overs]

Both times that Qwenthur explain the destruction of the Object, it's in response to the enemy's taunt that Object warfare cannot be overturned and Havia's lament that Qwenthur's plan cannot work. Both times he's already confident that he won.

In tri-core's case, Qwenthur only talked after he blew up the mines and before the Object aimed at him, after which he was quiet. Then after the princess shot at the Tri-core, destabilizing it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Five_Overs

Qwenthur didn't think that was the case.

"Idiot! It's not over yet. Quickly get out of there!"
"What are you talking about, tri-core is already...."

then bam

So just because the character thinks he’s not in danger makes everything valid? Just like how he & Hevy doing detailed exposition out-loud during Strider sabotage? I don’t think so. Qwensy & Hevy were lucky he’s not found out by enemy guards in Strider case. Here, he almost died for his mistake if not for plot armor that is the princess and her BM.

Originally Posted by OH&S

Think about it: gigantic wave is about to swallow Qwenthur; is saved after gigantic war machine's big ass cannon scoops him up from the ocean.

I guess it's not hilarious enough for me. Heck, Qwensy even had that serious drowny expression when he's drowning, unlike the over-exaggerated expression meant for comedy. And how he was calmly relieved after being saved by princess' BM seem like a serious out-of-danger situation rather then comedic out-of-danger situation.

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Those are two different points.

The object threat was eliminated but the size of the explosion wave was something he didn't consider. Not an unrealistic mistake for an amateur.

IMO no, it’s not realistic for a person smart enough to know how physics works in an intricate object like Tri-Core to not consider a huge wave in the sea after that gigantic explosion (it’s not like the case of a professor who is smart in math but oblivious to social common sense). It’s just an excuse to insert half-ass comedy in it. He’s still pretty much in danger and doing lengthy exposition in the middle of it.

Originally Posted by Five_Overs

Both times that Qwenthur explain the destruction of the Object, it's in response to the enemy's taunt that Object warfare cannot be overturned and Havia's lament that Qwenthur's plan cannot work. Both times he's already confident that he won.

If you call that a good excuse for a character to have lengthy and detailed exposition in a natural way then I don't know what to say. By your standard, Bond villains' various monologue-y exposition as responds to Bond (before and sometimes after their plans failed) are also natural. Qwensie & Hevy's tendency to give long detailed exposition are not far from Bond's villains talky habits, which is worse because they are the protagonists of the story.

Originally Posted by Five_Overs

In tri-core's case, Qwenthur only talked after he blew up the mines and before the Object aimed at him, after which he was quiet. Then after the princess shot at the Tri-core, destabilizing it.

Still the same lengthy exposition via characters mouths in a non-secure situation, still not natural.

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I guess it's not hilarious enough for me. Heck, Qwensy even had that serious drowny expression when he's drowning, unlike the over-exaggerated expression meant for comedy. And how he was calmly relieved after being saved by princess' BM seem like a serious out-of-danger situation rather then comedic out-of-danger situation.

I had a feeling that was the case. I agree with the criticisms here but the blame falls on the animation team. I was expecting more of a comedic moment out of that scene but was left a bit disappointed. I wish that they wouldn't focus on the fanservice so much.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

IMO no, it’s not realistic for a person smart enough to know how physics works in an intricate object like Tri-Core to not consider a huge wave in the sea after that gigantic explosion (it’s not like the case of a professor who is smart in math but oblivious to social common sense). It’s just an excuse to insert half-ass comedy in it. He’s still pretty much in danger and doing lengthy exposition in the middle of it.

It has nothing to do with being smart.

It's not unrealistic to be so focused on achieving a task that you, figuratively, lost sight of the bigger picture.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

By your logic people who get higher education would never make mistakes ever.

How can you draw that kind of conclusion from my comment?

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

What? Those are two different things. It's not unrealistic to be so focused on achieving a task that you, figuratively, lost sight of the bigger picture.

"Explosion in water -> impact wave" is pretty simple that even kids nowadays know. You should even be aware of it more if you're in the area where you'll be impacted by it. Just like how people now quickly avoid beaches after they felt a strong earthquake no matter what they are doing at the time.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

How can you draw that kind of conclusion from my comment?

I've misread. I've Changed already.

"Explosion in water -> impact wave" is pretty simple that even kids nowadays know. You should even be aware of it more if you're in the area where you'll be impacted by it. Just like how people now quickly avoid the beaches after they felt a strong earthquake.

If you just pulled off a crazy action movie stunt by "boarding" a moving vessel underwater while holding on to dear life, setting charges to explode, actually pulling it off and everything worked.

I can guarantee you would be overwhelmed by the adrenaline rush of "holy shit I've done it!"

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

If you just pulled off a crazy action movie stunt by "boarding" a moving vessel underwater while holding on to dear life, setting charges to explode, actually pulling it off and everything worked.

I can guarantee you would be overwhelmed by the adrenaline rush of "holy shit I've done it!"

I guess this is where we should agree to disagree then.

[Five_Overs]

When I see Qwenthur explaining about what he did, the first thing that comes to my mind is that he's overconfident and likes to brag. When I see the exchange between the two idiots when infiltrating enemy base, I see them discussing methods to stop the Object and survive.

I'll be honest and say I can' t understand how the connection is made that those two scenarios are interpreted as unnatural expositions. I'll just have to accept your thoughts on the matter.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Five_Overs

When I see Qwenthur explaining about what he did, the first thing that comes to my mind is that he's overconfident and likes to brag. When I see the exchange between the two idiots when infiltrating enemy base, I see them discussing methods to stop the Object and survive.

I'll be honest and say I can' t understand how the connection is made that those two scenarios are interpreted as unnatural expositions. I'll just have to accept your thoughts on the matter.

Yeah, honestly I haven't felt like unnatural exposition has been an issue of the show. I don't see an issue explaining what Qwenthur did or was aiming for after the fact. I'm pretty sure his friend and superior officer would love to know that and some don't mind bragging about what they just pulled off. Neither is it an issue bantering while in the base. Some people have a stress relief to a dangerous situation of chatting. Plus when you are in a dangerous situation you want to figure out a solution fast and going back and forth with someone who is there with you isn't a bad way to do that.

I suppose for some that's just how it feels, but not for me.

[Heir of the Void]

Also, I think the Tri-core fired its main battery in his general direction after it started sinking. There were three flashes in quick succession followed by red glowing point in the rough location of its main cannons. That may have been something he hadn't accounted for.

Also, adrenaline. Even if it would be obvious to him when he was sitting to him on his computer browsing the interwebs, in a life-or-death high intensity combat situation, people can miss things. That's part of why it's important for soldiers to drill fairly easy tasks to the extent that they do; during the musket era, for example, it was not unheard of for green troops to load their weapon, but forget the ball or powder. Thinking under fire is hard.

[Sinestra]

Jesus these guys cant catch a damn break. Id be complaining all the damn time too after being thrown into a shitty battle and asked to replicate the miracle that almost got me killed the first time and now they are off again. So much for the easy life. Fuck that job lol

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Heir of the Void

Also, adrenaline. Even if it would be obvious to him when he was sitting to him on his computer browsing the interwebs, in a life-or-death high intensity combat situation, people can miss things. That's part of why it's important for soldiers to drill fairly easy tasks to the extent that they do; during the musket era, for example, it was not unheard of for green troops to load their weapon, but forget the ball or powder. Thinking under fire is hard.

You brush off his inability to think/realize something as simple as impact wave with the adrenaline excuse, yet just mere moments before, Qwensie was giving a thorough professor-like lecture to Hevy in length about what he just did? Yep, that’s what I called unnatural exposition, and your statement about adrenaline actually support my point of how unnatural Qwensie exposition is delivered . Let’s face it, the whole “Qwensie didn’t realize the impact wave”-thing is just a petty excuse for comedy, nothing more.

[Five_Overs]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

You brush off his inability to think/realize something as simple as impact wave with the adrenaline excuse, yet just mere moments before, Qwensie was giving a thorough professor-like lecture to Hevy in length about what he just did? Yep, that’s what I called unnatural exposition, and your statement about adrenaline actually support my point of how unnatural Qwensie exposition is delivered . Let’s face it, the whole “Qwensie didn’t realize the impact wave”-thing is just a petty excuse for comedy, nothing more.

According to what your understanding, what's the cause of the tr-core's explosion?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Five_Overs

According to what your understanding, what's the cause of the tr-core's explosion?

What’s that got to do with my comment that you quoted?

[Five_Overs]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

What’s that got to do with my comment that you quoted?

Because reasons.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Five_Overs

Because reasons.

Then sorry, but so far, I'm not interested or invested enough to this show to come up with my own speculations. So far, I'm here just to see what the show will give me.

[Five_Overs]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Then sorry, but so far, I'm not interested or invested enough to this show to come up with my own speculations. So far, I'm here just to see what the show will give me.

I can assure you it's relevant to this discussion. Just a brief sentence would do.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

You brush off his inability to think/realize something as simple as impact wave with the adrenaline excuse, yet just mere moments before, Qwensie was giving a thorough professor-like lecture to Hevy in length about what he just did? Yep, that’s what I called unnatural exposition, and your statement about adrenaline actually support my point of how unnatural Qwensie exposition is delivered . Let’s face it, the whole “Qwensie didn’t realize the impact wave”-thing is just a petty excuse for comedy, nothing more.

The adrenaline and stress of combat doesn't make you an idiot that can't talk sense, but what it can do is "tunnel vision" you to a single immediate objective.

It's not really such a foreign concept, we're only humans and even the brightest of us had things that just slipped their minds in our daily lives- let alone in the middle of a battlefield.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

The adrenaline and stress of combat doesn't make you an idiot that can't talk sense, but what it can do is "tunnel vision" you to a single immediate objective.

It's not really such a foreign concept, we're only humans and even the brightest of us had things that just slipped their minds in our daily lives- let alone in the middle of a battlefield.

Don’t get me wrong, the whole “adrenaline makes you having tunnel-vision in what you’re doing” is entirely possible and realistic in some cases. But in Qwensie’s case, I just don’t buy it, not one bit. Here’s a guy who was able to calmly explain what he was doing and how he was doing it in great length (even with some theatrical flair) something as sophisticated as rigging the enemy Tri-Core and how he took it down Aikido-style like a professor giving a lecture, yet mere seconds after it, he’s a bumbling idiot who doesn’t know what underwater explosion can do to large body of water.

Both moments are contradictory to me. The anime itself already showed us that Qwensie was calm and collected enough to give the audience the aforementioned forced long-ass exposition (thanks to whoever scripted this episode) in front of the crumbling Tri-Core. But you lot made an excuse that he wasn’t aware of the impact wave at practically the same time because he ran on adrenaline? Unbelievable. Give me an example of someone who is running on adrenaline that can give such calm elaborate detailed and lengthy technical explanations (without any stutter, hiccups, etc) like what Qwensie did then I will reconsider my evaluation.

My verdict still stands: the bit about Qwensie not being aware of the impact wave is meant for comedic purpose (as even confirmed by OH&S). Worse, it’s not even that funny (for me at least).