Fate/Grand Order (Mobile RPG)

[GDB]

Originally Posted by NovelReader

I remember reading somewhere Herc was close in power when compared to Kintoki

Not... really? There's a difference of 2057 attack between their highest levels. Kintoki's NP also has a higher modifier and ignores defense completely (and has a good chance to stun) whereas Herc's only lowers it by 10% (or more pending overcharge).

[MartianMage]

Kintoki has a reverse S growth meaning his stats grow very slowly and spikes at 80-90. I mean at 60-70 Vlad has over 1k advantage over Kintoki... so yeah

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Zakoo

So I have kintoki I don't understand in which way he is strong.
His skills kind of suck, first skill doesn't greatly improve damage and is only 1 turn, 2 is situational the moment you have kaleidoscope. So I guess it's the third skill, divine muscle or something like this but healing 1000 HP and reducing your weakness is barely noticable.

So where did I go wrong with him ? BASAKAAA seems way better seeing it can hold longer in the fight.

The purpose of Kintoki is to have him on my Friends list so I can bring him in to drop a 100k+ NP on a target that needs softening up or just one-shotted.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

Kintoki has a reverse S growth meaning his stats grow very slowly and spikes at 80-90. I mean at 60-70 Vlad has over 1k advantage over Kintoki... so yeah

Even with that Kintoki has 3 + NP busters and attack rising skill, which give him edge over Vlad anytime.

[belatkuro]

I'm down to 13M QP. Arturia and Waver eats a lot of QP. Now I want the previous dailies where you can get QP 3 times a week. The new 40AP will probably give a lot to compensate for only being available once a week.

Did Waver's 2nd interlude and I got a Rune Stone CE. Must be something unique to him like the guaranteed item drops from Tamamo Cat, Blackbeard and Orion. His 3rd interlude is in Rome and needs him to be max ascended, which I cannot do because I'm lacking gears(and plumes but that's farmable now). Gears when? London when?
Funny thing is that when I finished Waver's interlude, Arturia's bond got maxed which unlocked her 2nd interlude. Demons, demons and a big dragon. No drops though but her NP will now hit a bit harder. Should be fun to spam NPs with Emiya and Martha now.

[Zakoo]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

Kintoki has a reverse S growth meaning his stats grow very slowly and spikes at 80-90. I mean at 60-70 Vlad has over 1k advantage over Kintoki... so yeah

Yea ok that's probably this thing, mine is only 78 so not as his full potential.

[El Rue]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

The purpose of Kintoki is to have him on my Friends list so I can bring him in to drop a 100k+ NP on a target that needs softening up or just one-shotted.

Pretty much what I feel for Herc as well. I don't want them badly but appreciate their presence when some face crushing is needed.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Even with that Kintoki has 3 + NP busters and attack rising skill, which give him edge over Vlad anytime.

No, you just can't rely on Kintoki's 1 turn buff over Vlad's consistent performance on many stages. For example when farming the xp daily... lvl60-70 Vlad would have no trouble 1 shotting those silver hands with his buster... a lvl60-70 Kintoki wouldn't 1 shot those because of that atk power difference... unless you want to use that 1 turn buff to 1 shot silver hands lmao...

[larethian]

Kintoki has a better NP than Herc. Hist attack skill should be used in conjunction with his NP. My Herc hits harder only because I have level 3 NP. OTH, Herc has better survivability with his skills. While Kintoki is most self sufficient in NP among the zerkers. Imagine hitting a one-wave-only boss. You get a guarantee NP off before dying.

[R.LocK]

...You're saying that Vlad with his Bloodsucker, double Arts spread and Arts NP is more dependant on the party for NP? Lare, this is just wrong.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

No, you just can't rely on Kintoki's 1 turn buff over Vlad's consistent performance on many stages. For example when farming the xp daily... lvl60-70 Vlad would have no trouble 1 shotting those silver hands with his buster... a lvl60-70 Kintoki wouldn't 1 shot those because of that atk power difference... unless you want to use that 1 turn buff to 1 shot silver hands lmao...

What are you talking about? Kintoki has THREE busters PLUS buster NP PLUS one turn buff. Sure Vlad might be able one shot silver hands (but these can be killed anytime), but he almost never has busters when needed. that's why Kintoki is better basaka.

I have lv.80 Vlad as core of my team, but he is not one I would depend when REAL damage is needed, because he has no guarantee to be able do enough when required (attack buff should be requirement for this class). He is good when it comes to stable damage output and that's good enough for my art team, but that's he is not big gun.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

What are you talking about? Kintoki has THREE busters PLUS buster NP PLUS one turn buff. Sure Vlad might be able one shot silver hands (but these can be killed anytime), but he almost never has busters when needed. that's why Kintoki is better basaka.

I have lv.80 Vlad as core of my team, but he is not one I would depend when REAL damage is needed, because he has no guarantee to be able do enough when required (attack buff should be requirement for this class). He is good when it comes to stable damage output and that's good enough for my art team, but that's he is not big gun.

I'm not denying that Kintoki has better burst because that's what he specializes at but lvl60-70(this is the point of our discussion... the fact that Kintoki has less atk on these levels) when you're fast farming Vlad does better because his busters straight up 1 shot things that have 10k hp where as Kintoki needs to use 2 cards. You have 3 silver hands... you can do buster vlad, buster support vlad, buster vlad... wave cleared in 1 turn. Kintoki wouldn't be able to do that because you have to use 2 cards... his buster wouldn't be enough to 1 shot silver hands at lvl60-70. And this is not limited to silver hands... basically enemies with around 10k hp which is avalable in many stages cannot be 1 shotted by Kintoki at that level whereas a lvl60-70 Vlad would reach over 10k busters a pop at that level.

So what if Kintoki has 3 busters? Are you gonna triple buster chain a 10k enemy and waste the whole turn just to kill 1 enemy? I have no shortage of Vlad and Kintoki supports and seriously back when a lot of them aren't max leveled(they are mostly lvl90 now) I'd rather bring a lvl60-70 Vlad over a lvl60-70 Kintoki if I'm just doing some casual farming.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by R.LocK

...You're saying that Vlad with his Bloodsucker, double Arts spread and Arts NP is more dependant on the party for NP? Lare, this is just wrong.

Have you used Kintoki?

Edit:
Putting k-scope aside, to get a turn 1 NP, Kintoki can achieve it even with a maxed-out Imaginary Number at level 1 of Animal Dialogue, and a (normal Imaginary Number/ maxed out Halloween Ilya) at level 6 of Animal Dialogue, a (maxed out Dragon Pulse/normal Halloween Ilya/maxed out Halloween Iri) at level 10 of Animal Dialogue.

For Vlad, he can do the same with a maxed-out Imaginary Number at level 6 of Bloodsucker. That's it.

From a turn 1 perspective, Kintoki has a wider coverage.

Even if we are not talking about turn 1 NP, if we are not using k-scope, Kintoki is at less of a mercy of the RNG card orders. And when using zerker teams, I often want to do buster chains as much as I can. From this perspective, I'd say Kintoki is more self-sufficient.


R.LocK, when a person states his point or belief, he comes from his own perspective and view. Whether or not you consider other perspectives, you can of course disagree from your own perspective and state your disagreement. But the word 'wrong' is very much an absolute word to most people. Maybe you should consider carefully before asserting that next time.

[Tenzen12]

That assumes one Vlad get two burst cards and other get at least one. That's statistically not exactly common occurrence. And that's the poin.t With two Kintokis (or kintoki and Herc/Tamamo) You can do it on regular basis instead of depending on luck.

With this much of red also means you can use other unitsbusters as breaker . If it's other serker wave is cleared, if not you will got one remaining hand to deal which will be piece of cake.

Also I still don't get why are you keep talking about silver hands. In 40 ap you would two at most.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

That assumes one Vlad get two burst cards and other get at least one. That's statistically not exactly common occurrence. And that's the poin.t With two Kintokis (or kintoki and Herc/Tamamo) You can do it on regular basis instead of depending on luck.

With busters cards it also means you can use burst cards of your other unit as breaker. If it's other serker wave is cleared, if not you will got one remaining hand to deal which will be piece of cake.

Also I still don't get why are you keep talking about silver hands. In 40 ap you would two at most.

Trust me it happens a lot. It's not very uncommon for 2 Vlads to wipe out a wave of 10k hp enemies in a single turn. Also because of Vlad's really fast growth... Vlad's arts hit really hard at that level. A Vlad buster, support Vlad buster, then Vlad arts, can easily reach 10k with the 3rd card bonus, clearing a whole wave in 1 single turn.

Also you have to realize that not everyone does the 40AP one. When your servants and supports aren't that very high lvl you'd be opting to do the 30AP one. Not everyone runs a stable party with almost fully ascended rosters. Also like I said, this is not limited to silver hands... maps with 10k hp mobs... you're better off bringing a lvl60-70 Vlad for the 1 shot busters. You only really bring Kintoki if you have to burst something huge.

[Tenzen12]

-Vlad doesn't have fast growth he is S type (slow-spurt-slow)
- It's uncommon enough to not be better for farming than real Berserkers.
-Anyone who has lv.70 -Vlad and another in ne as support can farm 40ap. For these who use Kintoki or Decent Herc it's walk in park.

Your mistake is you trying use Vlad as berserker and think he's good in it. But game wise he plays more like Saber.

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

-Vlad doesn't have fast growth he is S type (slow-spurt-slow)
- It's uncommon enough to not be better for farming than real Berserkers.
-Anyone who has lv.70 -Vlad and another in ne as support can farm 40ap. For these who use Kintoki or Decent Herc it's walk in park.

Your mistake is you trying use Vlad as berserker and think he's good in it. But game wise he plays more like Saber.

ummm... what are you talking about? reverse-S growth is the growth that spikes at the last few levels... linear growth is linear growth... and S-growth is spike really fast and then a huge downward spiral growth at the last levels.

Sure you might be able to scrape by with lvl70 berserker doing the 40AP xp... but you'd still be doing it slower if you bring a lvl60-70 Kintoki instead of a lvl60-70 Vlad who can kill 1 silver hand in 1 buster or gold hand in 2 busters.

Vlad is actually a very good berserker... I'm not sure why you think that because he has a saber loadout means he's not good.

[belatkuro]

860k, 860k, 1.6M QP. Money problems are solved.

[Baron-Zara]

Where is a better place to Farm for Plumes. 30 AP Chaldea for Saber or Okeanus?

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by MartianMage

ummm... what are you talking about? reverse-S growth is the growth that spikes at the last few levels... linear growth is linear growth... and S-growth is spike really fast and then a huge downward spiral growth at the last levels.

Sure you might be able to scrape by with lvl70 berserker doing the 40AP xp... but you'd still be doing it slower if you bring a lvl60-70 Kintoki instead of a lvl60-70 Vlad who can kill 1 silver hand in 1 buster or gold hand in 2 busters.

Vlad is actually a very good berserker... I'm not sure why you think that because he has a saber loadout means he's not good.

S growth means he is useless until level 40 or so and of course leveling him last ten levels is waste of time.

And that's where are wrong, with berserker layout Kintoki does more damage even with lower stats. Even more as you will ge t burst chain every two or three turns. Which is srcond ost important contribution to team outside of damage they do on their own.

Vlad iis by no means good Berserker, if you try use him as one you are just wasting his potential as servant. He is good but you are using him wrong.