High School DxD Light Novel - Volume 20

[Hakai]

If we are talking about just the modes themselves CCQ should have some advantages in potential

It has the power/traits of the evil pieces, power of the Hakuryuuko also it seems free of any negative effects while EJO was said to have 'minimised' the negative effects 'as much as possible' iirc
Though I expect the effects to lessen further after the past Hakuryuuko senpais converted to the butt/panty faction

[Biohazardous]

When completed and fully mastered by both I expect them to have similar drawbacks. Ise will be the one with the most drawback as far as full power is concerned however, with DxD mode in all.

[DragonOsman]

Yeah, but DxD mode will most likely be banned in this hypothetical match we're discussing here. And Cardinal Crimson Queen itself has no negative effects to consider. The main drawback was the over-the-top stamina consumption, but Ise has already gotten over that. The remaining drawbacks are just the ones related to the abilities of the individual forms of the Triaina that Cardinal Crimson Queen draws from, which once Ise has it all mastered, shouldn't really matter all that much - if at all - to begin with.

But it's still Ddraig's full power at his prime when fully stabilized, tuned and mastered. That hopefully won't have bad drawbacks.

[Biohazardous]

I think Ise still has the advantage. He has a unique and weird motivation to keep fighting. He also has the advantage of having one of his rivals abilities. Even if he can't use it as well he still has access to it which could very well be the thing that saves him in a serious fight.

[DragonOsman]

That's true, but I think even without the Hakuryuukou's power, he should still have the advantage if he can fully stabilize, tune and master the Cardinal Crimson Queen and DxD mode (in the off-chance that he's allowed to use it).

[XFire]

DxD mode is entirely beyond the pale in regards to fighting Vali. He'd kill him if they fought like that, purposefully or not.

It's powered by Ophis, people.

[B214]

We still don't know for sure if DxD will be a permanent power-up. It may end up being used like the Juggernaut Drive as a means to extend Ise's move set.

[Chichiryuushintei]

Except that it uses Ise's actual powers, not a curse like JD. The only resemblance to JD seems to be the appearence (according to Rizevim at least).

Besides, it's called fucking DxD.

[Direwolf18]

It's still based around taping into Ophis's powers. It's a cheat mode, drawing on the power of two of the strongest beings in universe. Im not saying Vali can't beat him in that mode, because I think he can if he gets sneaky enough, but that would be more of a case of Ise losing to a tactics style opponent then being overpowered. Whatever strategy gets concocted though it would probably one of those things that only works once.

[Hakai]

That’s right, this was basically cheating. I wouldn’t want to use this power in a fair fight. Also, to borrow such a power from Ophis who only wants to live a peaceful life…I would be reluctant

I doubt Ise will be willing to use this mode in a fight with his rival
It's probably saved as the when shit officially hits the fan mode

But if he does decide to go all Uroboros, Vali should get his ass handed to him on a silver platter

[Chichiryuushintei]

@Dire: Considering how Ise is the one with unpredictable tactician of the rival duo, I doubt Vali would be able to pull something like that off.

[sunsengnim]

Originally Posted by Direwolf18

It's still based around taping into Ophis's powers. It's a cheat mode, drawing on the power of two of the strongest beings in universe. Im not saying Vali can't beat him in that mode, because I think he can if he gets sneaky enough, but that would be more of a case of Ise losing to a tactics style opponent then being overpowered. Whatever strategy gets concocted though it would probably one of those things that only works once.

Vali is a power type just like Issei he has never shown any sort of tactic or strategy in combat he just brute forces his way trough opponents.

Issei has used more strategy in combat and they call Issei the power idiot.

Their fight when both mastered the heavenly dragons powers is going to be a stalemate just like Ddraig and Albion originally had.

If Issei uses the DxD mode it'll be a curbstomp but we all know Issei is going to use that mode ONLY when absolutely necessary so it won't come into play if they ever fight again.

It's just that simple.

[DragonOsman]

^Ise's and Vali's individual strengths should also be factored in along with their mastered powers of Ddraig and Albion. Plus, there's also the fact that Ise has some of Albion's power (only the Divide and Reflect powers, but yeah).

Even without DxD mode, Ise should be able to win with tactical use of his powers and also by using his Wyverns in a smart enough way. Ise could have some trouble because of Vali's talent in Demonic Power, though.

[sunsengnim]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

^Ise's and Vali's individual strengths should also be factored in along with their mastered powers of Ddraig and Albion. Plus, there's also the fact that Ise has some of Albion's power (only the Divide and Reflect powers, but yeah).

Even without DxD mode, Ise should be able to win with tactical use of his powers and also by using his Wyverns in a smart enough way. Ise could have some trouble because of Vali's talent in Demonic Power, though.

Issei has stamina/physical power

Vali has demonic power/magic

Yes, Issei has the fairy wyverns and can reflect/divide/boost/penetrate while Vali hasn't even unlocked a single of Albions original techniques.

But that's why i said mastered we don't know to what extent Issei can use reflect/divide and we don't know if he'd even use it in their final battle.

For all we know Issei chooses to not use Albions power to have it be a true red vs white fight.

There's too many IFS and or BUTTs to really make a proper scenario.

It's why i went with the most obvious Issei will only use Ddraigs power and Vali would only use Albions power.

Like this it could not be anything else but a battle of attrition which ends in a stalemate unless they're planning on destroying everything.

Because as has been stated Ddraig and Albions could destroy the world many times over so an Issei vs Vali in full control of their original power would need to be heavily restricted.

[DragonOsman]

Aren't they going to be the only ones who'd have mastered Ddraig's and Albion's original powers if they do master them? Or am I misremembering? But yeah, you're right about them needing to be restricted.

[sunsengnim]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Aren't they going to be the only ones who'd have mastered Ddraig's and Albion's original powers if they do master them? Or am I misremembering? But yeah, you're right about them needing to be restricted.

Yes, they would be.
There has been no mentioning of anyone that has come even close to doing so your point being?

Of course i'm right, which means this whole Issei vs Vali fighting is pretty moot.

If they ever do fight at full mastery it'll be so restricted they won't run out of gas for hours maybe days it's why i said it'll just be a battle of attrition or until they get bored.

If they go all out to really see who'd win between them there won't be anything left by the end of it.

[beast 666]

Hi all I am new to this discussion and bring them here five spoilers on the volume v21 got them an ichiei Conference so a reliable source I ask you that you say

Spoiler for Spoiler volume v21:

1. history of Vali, counted as it was pursued by his grandfather Rizevim, and as he did so to obtain the power of Vali to Albion increase greatly with the help of Azazel.! Indeed the author commented that (not known if all the Tome or only some parts) that tells the perspective of Vali.

2. one of the main (and beloved by many) characters died in this volume.(the theories say that it perhaps Azazel)

3 in the battle of Apophis, Azi Dahaka and Vali, Iseei back from the coma State, and you can control the power that was given to him by Ophis, Iseei returns thanks to the oppai (this Spoiler makes me "goose bumps").

4. the 666 will be stopped by the Dios Shiva, Azazel, Miguel, and Sirzechs help in the battle, three leaders fight with all its power. We will see or read the true form of Sirzechs, also, because Miguel is the Lord of heaven...(This spoiler is not official)

5 Vali reaches an abnormal power thanks to the sempai's past, they discuss the meaning of the true dragon. One of the Vali sempai knew the secret to being a true dragon without restrictions, but he didn't say anything until this point. Since their visions, sempai knew that Iseei would be the Red Dragon Dios.

[Direwolf18]

Vali never stuck me as a pure power idiot. And he knows a lot of Ise's tricks. If anyone has any hope of beating him it's Vali.

That being said I don't think Ise would ever use it in anything resembling a fair fight and it will probably be banned for rating games. Which is what I consider a fair fight.

[DragonOsman]

Vali does focus mainly on power, but yeah, he'd use tactics where needed, just like Ise.

But yeah, DxD mode would and should be banned in Rating Games. It's too powerful.

@Sensengnim: I was just mentioning that part about them being the only ones to master it because it's kind of interesting here.

[Biohazardous]

They both will become the best and strongest hosts ever by far.