Macross Delta - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Thess

I don't know which scene you mean. I didn't notice any fold wave emission at the Port.

Try watching the scene at Hayate's workplace--the cargo port--in episode 1 again. Freyja notices Hayate because she notices "the colour of the wind" -- it's only after she starts singing that he notices her fold waves, which would be how he found her (NB: she wasn't in any of the containers he had carried).

Edit: Oh, and just in case, the part of the battle scene that I'm talking about (in episode 1) is when Mirage notices "an active reaction at 3 o'clock," not the later 'they're in fold space' bit. If I'm not mistaken, that particular active reaction was Hayate, not Freyja. And that's why Arad asked Kaname to look into him.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by karice67

Try watching the scene again. Freyja notices Hayate because she notices "the colour of the wind"

Freya always interprets singing (and dancing, I guess) as colors. Even the singing from that cat girl who couldn't emit fold waves appeared as colors to Freyja.

it's only after she starts singing that he notices her fold waves, which would be how he found her

When she starts singing, he hears her. It doesn't have anything to do with fold waves.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Freya always interprets singing (and dancing, I guess) as colors. Even the singing from that cat girl who couldn't emit fold waves appeared as colors to Freyja.

When she starts singing, he hears her. It doesn't have anything to do with fold waves.

It looks like she'd actually felt the girl's singing through fold waves in that scene in episode 7. How Freyja does it, I don't know, but it didn't look as if she'd actually 'heard' her singing when she stopped, given that she herself was singing at that point.

Going back to episode 1: putting aside the second part (i.e. that "he hears her"), which I think is debatable depending on how far apart they actually were, how did she notice his dancing when he wasn't carrying her? (She'd have felt the cargo container being picked up and shaken around if she'd been in one of the ones he'd carried).

That's how I read those scenes, anyway. I just find the little details a little odd if Freyja was actually meant to be in one of the containers that Hayate was carrying when she 'sensed' him.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by karice67

It looks like she'd actually felt the girl's singing through fold waves in that scene in episode 7. How Freyja does it, I don't know, but it didn't look as if she'd actually 'heard' her singing when she stopped, given that she herself was singing at that point.

If that girl could emit fold ways, her singing would have had some effect on her father. Unless any person can emit at least a minimum of fold ways when singing (or dancing). Actually, I think it was mentioned that a lot of the idols who took part in the Walkure auditions could emit fold waves, but not enough to be effective against Var.

Going back to episode 1: putting aside the second part (i.e. that "he hears her"), which I think is debatable depending on how far apart they actually were

I think he was passing by her cargo when he notices, and it's pretty clear he hears her, because we can hear her too at that moment. Besides, Hayate has no knowledge of song magic stuff at that point in time; if he could "feel" her, he would find it very surprising.

how did she notice his dancing when he wasn't carrying her? (She'd have felt the cargo container being picked up and shaken around if she'd been in one of the ones he'd carried).

True. Maybe he was emoting something.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

If that girl could emit fold ways, her singing would have had some effect on her father. Unless any person can emit at least a minimum of fold ways when singing (or dancing). Actually, I think it was mentioned that a lot of the idols who took part in the Walkure auditions could emit fold waves, but not enough to be effective against Var.

I suspect it's got something to do with the fold bacteria that they're talking about in this episode. The girl has presumably been eating Windermere apples and drinking that water, after all, so she might have some fold bacteria somewhere in her body, enough to emit a faint signal.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I think he was passing by her cargo when he notices, and it's pretty clear he hears her, because we can hear her too at that moment. Besides, Hayate has no knowledge of song magic stuff at that point in time; if he could "feel" her, he would find it very surprising.

True, that's possible. I've been trying to work that scene out, though, because the colours of the containers where he finds her don't look to be in the same arrangement as the ones where he stopped in that previous shot.

That said, Hayate has also been shown to have heard Heinz's and Freyja's singing (through his crystal?), even when he shouldn't have been able to (episodes 3 and 4).


I am still trying to work this all out, though...since we obviously haven't yet been presented with all the information about how these fold-related abilities and objects work...

[Tak]

So I have a small complaint... almost 10 episodes and Earnest Johnson has not gotten much screen-time.

Cmon, Macross captains used to be cool people, what happened!?

- Tak

[YF19EX]

Its hard to follow in the footsteps of Global, Misa, Max and Miller. Well that and the Macross Elysium herself needs screen time. Bring on my Macross Fleet Destroying Cannon!

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by karice67

That said, Hayate has also been shown to have heard Heinz's and Freyja's singing (through his crystal?), even when he shouldn't have been able to (episodes 3 and 4).

Hayate himself said he didn't really hear Heinz. He felt it, and he was pretty surprised. But the stuff from episode 1 seems way too matter of fact to be something like that. He doesn't seem all that surprised when he hears her singing and the scene doesn't really convey any magical shenanigans.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Hayate himself said he didn't really hear Heinz. He felt it, and he was pretty surprised. But the stuff from episode 1 seems way too matter of fact to be something like that. He doesn't seem all that surprised when he hears her singing and the scene doesn't really convey any magical shenanigans.

That's what he says, but we hear the singing as well, and he recognises it as 'a song'. My point is: if we hear the singing for that scene in which Hayate later clarifies as something he 'felt', then why should the scene at the cargo port be different? That is to say, the fact that we heard Freyja singing when he noticed her in episode one doesn't necessarily mean that he physically heard her, which was one of the arguments you put forth.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by karice67

That's what he says, but we hear the singing as well, and he recognises it as 'a song'. My point is: if we hear the singing for that scene in which Hayate later clarifies as something he 'felt', then why should episode 1 at the cargo port be different?

Because it was depicted differently. It's not magical stuff or he would have reacted accordingly.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Because it was depicted differently. It's not magical stuff or he would have reacted accordingly.

I don't see a significant difference between his reactions in episode 1 and 3/4.

In any case, you seem to be saying it's a certainty whilst I'm saying that it's not. That's all this is about, and I don't see any point to arguing over it any further.

[D-Joe]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I like the relationship between Hayate and Mirage. And I can understand and respect why some would ship them.

But honestly, this is what Hayate and Mirage makes me think of so far: A bromance where one half happens to be a young woman. If Mirage was male, I think people would totally see it (as opposed to actual yaoi). Hayate and Mirage have a brothers-in-arms sort of relationship that comes from being trusted allies fighting alongside each other in a war. There's a really smooth comfort level between them that's like
brothers-in-arms or buddy cops.

When I look at Hayate and Mirage hanging out together, in recent episodes, I don't see any tension at all. Both are now completely at ease in each other's company - With him lounging a lot, and her typically standing upright but otherwise in an "at ease" position. That's great for a friendship... but maybe not so good for a romance.

Romance, in its early stages, should probably have some tension, some frayed nerves, some nervousness, and make you think passion more than relaxation. This probably ties into why some viewers see more romance in Messer-Kaname, or even in Mikumo-Freyja, than with either Hayate-Freyja or Hayate-Mirage.

This isn't to take away from Hayate's relationship with either Freyja or Mirage. In fact, it is to point out that close friendship can actually be more comfortable/relaxing than romance. The bromance has its own sort of depth and tightness that shouldn't be underestimated, in my view.

This can all change, of course. And maybe zentraedis, like Mirage, have a somewhat different approach to romance than humans do? If a big Macross fan wants to comment on that, I'd certainly consider it. But right now, and looking at this from the perspective of human relationships, Hayate-Mirage seems like a bromance to me. Just one that happens to include a young woman.

That's because they didn't realize it yet, and seems they may realize that in next episode thanks to Messer-Kaname.
Oh and actually Freyja is already realize a little.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by karice67

It looks like she'd actually felt the girl's singing through fold waves in that scene in episode 7. How Freyja does it, I don't know, but it didn't look as if she'd actually 'heard' her singing when she stopped, given that she herself was singing at that point.

To me Windermereans due to their Rune have some sort of Newtype ability to sense emotions. Hence their constant referral to wind.

We've seen this ability before in Macross Zero with Sara and later Mao, when she got blood transfusion, being able to see hostile intentions as Kadun.

So yeah Macross Newtypes aka Fold Receptors at least with Terrans has achieved understanding with alien races several times. Here is the rub most are just transmitters. Sheryl and Ranka became receivers due to Fold Bacteria in their body.

Windermereans their Fold Receptor ability is just another sense for them like sight , smell or hearing. They are both transmitters and receivers. The Protoculture maybe designed them for some purpose. Aerial Knights use this ability in piloting.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tak

So I have a small complaint... almost 10 episodes and Earnest Johnson has not gotten much screen-time.

Cmon, Macross captains used to be cool people, what happened!?

- Tak

People fear his earnest johnson.

[Thess]

I'll rewatch episode 1 to keep an eye on those scenes, karice67.

Originally Posted by Tak

So I have a small complaint... almost 10 episodes and Earnest Johnson has not gotten much screen-time.

Cmon, Macross captains used to be cool people, what happened!?

- Tak

I wager he'll have screen time during King of Wind. Maybe it's a flashback about the past in Windermere. He and Arad knew the King and former White Knight.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I like the relationship between Hayate and Mirage. And I can understand and respect why some would ship them.

But honestly, this is what Hayate and Mirage makes me think of so far: A bromance where one half happens to be a young woman. If Mirage was male, I think people would totally see it (as opposed to actual yaoi). Hayate and Mirage have a brothers-in-arms sort of relationship that comes from being trusted allies fighting alongside each other in a war. There's a really smooth comfort level between them that's like
brothers-in-arms or buddy cops.

When I look at Hayate and Mirage hanging out together, in recent episodes, I don't see any tension at all. Both are now completely at ease in each other's company - With him lounging a lot, and her typically standing upright but otherwise in an "at ease" position. That's great for a friendship... but maybe not so good for a romance.

Romance, in its early stages, should probably have some tension, some frayed nerves, some nervousness, and make you think passion more than relaxation. This probably ties into why some viewers see more romance in Messer-Kaname, or even in Mikumo-Freyja, than with either Hayate-Freyja or Hayate-Mirage.

This isn't to take away from Hayate's relationship with either Freyja or Mirage. In fact, it is to point out that close friendship can actually be more comfortable/relaxing than romance. The bromance has its own sort of depth and tightness that shouldn't be underestimated, in my view.

This can all change, of course. And maybe zentraedis, like Mirage, have a somewhat different approach to romance than humans do? If a big Macross fan wants to comment on that, I'd certainly consider it. But right now, and looking at this from the perspective of human relationships, Hayate-Mirage seems like a bromance to me. Just one that happens to include a young woman.

That's how I described their relationships a couple of episode ago. Hayate and Mirage as brother-in-arms while Hayate and Frejya as brother and sister. I kinda like this symmetry. From any direction, perspective or geometry I watch them, it's always something more family related, like during the "date" episode or this one, they gave a parents-child vibe with hayate and Mirage looking after Frejya or previously Mirage looked more like an one-san to them.

On Freyja part I guess it's the third time she saw Hayate and Mirage together, the first time she laughed, the second time she stopped laughing and this time went nuts, so definitely she has been realizing (well, she will) she has some feeling for Hayate. And so far is the only angle that looked directly at romance (apart Mikumo who was pushing her in that direction from the start, but probably for their 100% resonance thing). Sure we may nitpick about Mirage, but if it was it's very subtle.

Personally I'm fine if I'm not teased to death with random romance shenanigans, and things at this point may still go in any direction. I like Mirage and Hayate dynamics because they are realistic and they are slowly knowing each other smoothly (considering also how little time Mirage has had until now in comparison to the other characters) and if she will start having feelings for Hayate I'm glad this didn't happen at first sight, so I don't see nothing strange on Mirage part, she seems kinda acting in a similar way to Hayate in this regard.
I'd like to think that they, or Mirage at least, regard war matters first, leaving romance stuffs as appendixs (but I don't think this is the case), at first at least. I can see Mirage being upset if/when she will have some feeling for anyone, like something that gets in her way of duty.

Having said that I'm trying to keep my expectations very low since Frejya so far has been a take-it-all kind of character so I'm expecting Hayate will sooner or later realize his feeling for her.

[Thess]

Even if there is a triangle. It doesn't mean that anyone will end up together. Just take a look at Macross 7 as example. Nobody paired off in the end. I have a feeling that this might be similar because the metaplot takes precedence.

[Arya]

Of course, I never implied we would have any couples, actually I never expect them to begin with, that's how anime works generally. If Macross usually differs I don't really know so I can't take it as precedent. The only precedent I have is MF that follows the general rule so, I was more about how the love triangle may come to life not how it could end. About what takes precedence if with meta plot you means Frejya's I agree, even if it all depends on how writers intend to use this specific aspect to influence/affect her. This episode they took the comic relief angle to highlight how she may be already affected by it and to downplay any Mirage/Hayate material. Will it get in her way or will be beneficial nad in which way? Hard to say, I'd go for the former but for how it went so far, it's probably will be the latter.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I like the relationship between Hayate and Mirage. And I can understand and respect why some would ship them.

But honestly, this is what Hayate and Mirage makes me think of so far: A bromance where one half happens to be a young woman. If Mirage was male, I think people would totally see it (as opposed to actual yaoi). Hayate and Mirage have a brothers-in-arms sort of relationship that comes from being trusted allies fighting alongside each other in a war. There's a really smooth comfort level between them that's like
brothers-in-arms or buddy cops.

When I look at Hayate and Mirage hanging out together, in recent episodes, I don't see any tension at all. Both are now completely at ease in each other's company - With him lounging a lot, and her typically standing upright but otherwise in an "at ease" position. That's great for a friendship... but maybe not so good for a romance.

Romance, in its early stages, should probably have some tension, some frayed nerves, some nervousness, and make you think passion more than relaxation. This probably ties into why some viewers see more romance in Messer-Kaname, or even in Mikumo-Freyja, than with either Hayate-Freyja or Hayate-Mirage.

This isn't to take away from Hayate's relationship with either Freyja or Mirage. In fact, it is to point out that close friendship can actually be more comfortable/relaxing than romance. The bromance has its own sort of depth and tightness that shouldn't be underestimated, in my view.

This can all change, of course. And maybe zentraedis, like Mirage, have a somewhat different approach to romance than humans do? If a big Macross fan wants to comment on that, I'd certainly consider it. But right now, and looking at this from the perspective of human relationships, Hayate-Mirage seems like a bromance to me. Just one that happens to include a young woman.

I disagre with you. Well, not about your evaluation of Mirage - Hayato relationship, but about what is romance supposed be like in first place. Being able relax, entrust ones back to other is most important part of ANY relationship be it friendship or romantic love. Actually when it come to opposite genders line between it is rarely completely clear and sometimes it doesn't even exist in first place.

Most people have to get through aforementioned tension and nervousness to get there. Hayate and Mirage having most relevant part of relationship down already is what makes this ship so much appealing.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

People fear his earnest johnson.

Bah, everyone's Johnson is earnest!!

- Tak