Macross Delta - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Tak

To compensate for their short lifespan, Wind folks possess superior physical attributes, but this was not necessarily an exchange. For the Zentradi are powerful and long-lived. Other monstrosities created by Protoculture also dwarf Windermerians in terms of power and lifespan. Whats the deal with Wind in midst of Protoculture creation hierarchy? I guess we will eventually find out.

- Tak

Totally in character with the Protoculture if you ask me. Terrans are like rechargeable Spiritia batteries able to normalize their internal biological fold waves through singing. Something the Protodevlin eventually discovered themselves. The Protoculture nerfed Terrans Fold Receptor capability being able to transmit and receive. With only a few bloodlines capable to do so.

Why? Terrans are perfect in powering their advanced biological weapons like the Evil Series and the Bird Human.

As for mind control the Protodevlin are able to do it with technology. Gavil's FBz-99G Saubergeran can fire a mind control beam to bring back recently freed pilots. You have to remember the Protodevlin steals their technology from Protoculture and UN Spacy. It could be in their various wars the Protoculture developed mind control. One has to remember even before they got FTL speeds the Protoculture has been fighting by proxy with Zentradi.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Thess

Pretty much. Triangle is Mirage->Hayate->Freyja to me. Not romantic, admiration. Hayate admires and looks up Freyja while Mirage does the same to Hayate.

I think that's exactly right. Well put.

Originally Posted by CriiGV

Something tells me Thess ships Freyja/Mirage. Personally I'm a Freyja/Hayate shipper but I do agree on you about the opposite sex friendship being a thing.

Yay! It's good to meet another Freyja/Hayate shipper. But like yourself, I also see where Thess is coming from on the opposite sex friendship thing.

I get annoyed as well when people are like "Hayate sees Freyja as a little sister!!" Like omg, seriously?! I'm gonna punch someone in the face.

Hayate flirts with Freyja way too much for me to view their relationship as sibling-like.


As for the Windermere life-span... yeah, I could see the events of this anime changing that, especially if we get a Hayate/Freyja end. Roid has made some cryptic comments that suggest something truly wild might happen before its all said and done...

[Father Hentai]

Flirting? I'd say it's more teasing behaviors from Hayate rather than flirting.

I would define his relationship to Freyja more as a deep friendship or partner in crime rather than brother/sister.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Key Board

it does feel that Delta is getting too close to Gundam at the moment.

I know times are changing, but to me Macross has always been more about 2 cultures that are alien to each other.

Where as Windermere already started too familiar from the start and their struggle for political independence/dominance seems something out of another mecha anime to me.

Yeah. Get rid of all the alien-things and magical-singing then you can begin to make Delta into a Gundam show (so far at least. Who knows? Maybe Delta will go crazier in future episodes ).

Originally Posted by Thess

They have alien traits. The short lifespans explain a lot how the characters act emotionally and psychologically (specially Keith and Freyja, IMO). Runes heighten their emotions in general and act (maybe?) as fold receptors which made them more connected to the environment, iirc (that's probably why they prefer to avoid dropping bombs).

Ironically, I think the Martian enemy in Gundam AGE (back in 2011) is more or less on the same level of Windermere in terms of differences in culture and way of living compared to the “normal guys”-faction (and you know that Gundam TV series has never been about aliens). So I can understand how Key Board feels about Windermere not being alien enough, unlike the enemies in other Macross TV series.

Spoiler for saving space:

I don’t know about y’all, but I certainly won’t like it if by the end of Delta’s story, the Windermerans are somehow made to live longer than their natural life-span due to some mumbo-jumbo happy-filled magic. That would be too much of a happy ending that broke even fairy-tale-standard of happy endings. I mean, we don’t see humans complaining and then granted life-span as long as the Elves in LOTR, do we? The same also didn’t happen between humans & Zentradi in other Macross series. So why Windermereans have to get the special treatment? I'd rather have a (good) ending where people accept who and what they are and live their lives happily the best they can. Just my 2 cents.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I don’t know about y’all, but I certainly won’t like it if by the end of Delta’s story, the Windermerans are somehow made to live longer than their natural life-span due to some mumbo-jumbo happy-filled magic. That would be too much of a happy ending that broke even fairy-tale-standard of happy endings. I mean, we don’t see humans complaining and then granted life-span as long as the Elves in LOTR, do we? The same also didn’t happen between humans & Zentradi in other Macross series. So why Windermereans have to get the special treatment? I'd rather have a (good) ending where people accept who and what they are and live their lives happily the best they can. Just my 2 cents.

I am not saying this will happen. I am only saying, this might happen, based on whats going on all around.

Though to be honest, I can't say I care either way.

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tak

To compensate for their short lifespan, Wind folks possess superior physical attributes, but this was not necessarily an exchange. For the Zentradi are powerful and long-lived. Other monstrosities created by Protoculture also dwarf Windermerians in terms of power and lifespan. Whats the deal with Wind in midst of Protoculture creation hierarchy? I guess we will eventually find out.

- Tak

Zentraedi are weaker than Windermerians, iirc, it's been confirmed that they'll be easily overwhelmed. Sure if they are macronized, they'll be stronger based on different dimensions, but if a Windermerian were to be macronized, they'll keep their massive edge. Zentraedi also lack Windermerian connection to the environment (Gramia, a sickly old man, could sense the disturbance of the fold and read movements through the runes - look how he guessed about the bomb easily). Some individuals have fold connection, but it seems it's kind of inherent in Windermere people just like Vajra. I don't know but super enhanced strength, agility and super fold powers that could crush other protoculture races on average look kind of overpowered. They needed to be nerfed somehow for balance: a short lifespan is a perfect balance point.

To be honest, Zentraedi and Meltrandi seem to had it the worst of the protoculture races, their task was to be cannon fodder and it looks they are mostly susceptible to most mind-attacks (meanwhile Windermerians proved to be unaffected by Var so far, which we know is really serious and galaxy spread thing - even before they used it for their purposes. Even a Vajra was affected by Var, so it just shows how freaky Windermerians are. No protodeviln or ehvil series level, but really tough).

[willyvereb]

I don't think the Windmereans are THAT much more powerful than all the other races in combat. I think their main ability is their Rune based telepathy or fold whatever they have. Sure, they are strong but remember how Keith got his match against Messer even in personal combat? Not quite the same level but he could still repel Keith's offense and force him into a retreat.


Superhuman capabilities are not so rare in Macross. It's a fiction with Charles Atlats Superpower being a thing thus the more skilled you are in combat the more superhuman your capabilities can become. Their Rune-assisted extra awareness is the primary advantage aside from Windmereans being portrayed as speedsters.
Mirrage got beaten since she isn't a super ace (yet?) unlike Messer. That's about.

Also just because Windemerans have an edge over miclonized Zentraedi that doesn't guarantee they would keep this maclonized as well. Heck, we don't even know if maclonizing Windemerans is possible. It might also be that their capabilities don't translate well over to giant form. Or the reverse and their maclone form is their unexpected true power. Who knows?
Without evidence of maclonized Windemerans the discussion about it is rather moot.

Lastly, holy freaking shipping wars! Who the hell cares if Hayate reacted to Mirrage pushing her protrusions against his back or not? This is the same kind of shit I read half decade ago in the Sheryl/Ranka shipping wars. It doesn't matter. The most you get out of this that Mirrage is getting another push to be more conscious about Hayate as a man. And why she blushes while Hayate does not? Because she's the one pushing her breasts against him. She's the only one with time to think about it.
"I need to get closer but if that happens my breasts are going to touch Hayate... so improper."
She doesn't complain much after it. And Hayate is busy fixing the connection cable.
That's all.
No need to read more into this.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Thess

Zentraedi are weaker than Windermerians, iirc, it's been confirmed that they'll be easily overwhelmed. Sure if they are macronized, they'll be stronger based on different dimensions, but if a Windermerian were to be macronized, they'll keep their massive edge.

Not really. Zentradi are close to Earthers in Miclone form. Zentran form they are a lot tougher. Windermereans wouldn't likely have the same combat toughness in Zentran size as they lack Zentran genes that make it so.
http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.or...AZentraadi.php

Body Features
Although the Zentraadi have a body structure that's approximately the same as Earthlings when My-clones*, when they become giants, the function and position of the internal organs change and they have a robust body structure suitable for combat. This is the manifestation of a special gene that is different from an Earthling when the Zentraadi are being made gigantic by the My-clone system. And despite the internal organs and organization being scaled-up and cloned, the position and function changes are the result of strengthening being performed on the body. In addition, although the Zentraadi were created by cloning in a Factory Satellite, after coexisting with mankind they came to be born by natural birth due to pregnancy.

* Translator's note: in the original edition the line was "Although the Zentraadi have a body structure that almost favourably compares to those of Earthlings when Mi-clones"

Caption: Zentraadi genes pass through the generations, and they seem to individually variably manifest. There also seems to be people who have a link between their changes of emotion and the movement of their hair.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Not really. Zentradi are close to Earthers in Miclone form. Zentran form they are a lot tougher. Windermereans wouldn't likely have the same combat toughness in Zentran size as they lack Zentran genes that make it so.
http://monkeybacon.mywebcommunity.or...AZentraadi.php

Nothing you've linked necessarily proves that they won't get their ass kicked by Kawamori's latest pet project. We don't even know what would Windermerians be like macronized.

[Tak]

Except there is no guarantee that they can get macroed and they certainly don't have the special gene to go with the process. To be macroed via the Zentradi way is far more than an enlargement process.

I don't care if Wind can hop and jump. Good luck fighting a giant that can rip tanks apart.

- Tak

[Thess]

Originally Posted by Tak

Except there is no guarantee that they can get macroed and they certainly don't have the special gene to go with the process. To be macroed via the Zentradi way is far more than an enlargement process.

I don't care if Wind can hop and jump. Good luck fighting a giant that can rip tanks apart.

- Tak

We don't know if they can't either. It would be cool to see a Voldorian macroed too. Mmm.

Anyone knows if Macross Delta appeared in animedia polls? As you know the results of Newtype this month are Hayate (2nd, male poll), Freyja (3rd, female poll) and Kaname (7th, female poll). Freyja's 5th in the Animage general favorite characters poll. And I think there's an official Delta poll onging right now (sadly I can't find the link to vote, maybe is mobile only ) talked about in twitter, intermediary top 5 results are out: Freyja, Kaname, Mikumo, Mirage and Messer (in that order). Hayate could be 6th, I guess.

I'm really pleasantly surprised that Kaname is scoring high and doing so well. I hope she gets a magazine spread or poster!

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Annorax

So what did Hayate's dad? Military with a medic mom??? Both died during WIndamere independance war?
Speaking of which, accroding to the internet, the place Hayate's dad was in sounds like Ouroboros(Blue sea hot desret cold snowly place?)

I'm thinking Hayate's dad was stationed on Windermere under Ernest, his mom is a Windermererean making Hayate a hybrid human/windermere explaining his affinity with wind but lacking the rune. They sent him away when he was really young because hostility was starting to spread there. His father was killed during the revolution 7 years ago. Possibly his mother too.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by cyberdemon

I'm thinking Hayate's dad was stationed on Windermere under Ernest, his mom is a Windermererean making Hayate a hybrid human/windermere explaining his affinity with wind but lacking the rune. They sent him away when he was really young because hostility was starting to spread there. His father was killed during the revolution 7 years ago. Possibly his mother too.

Wasn't Hayate's father a NUNS soldier or did I misunderstand this? Ernest was a free-lance mercenary before he joined Chaos (who would have fought against NUNS if Gramia hadn't dismissed him). If his mother was a Windermerian, Hayate would have said so. By the way he was explaining, he travelled with her (she was an army doctor) while his father was sent to missions. Arad could have known him though, he was the one who was a low ranked NUNS pilot deployed to fight back then, before he quit that and joined Chaos.

I don't think he was killed. IIRC, one of the interviews state that Hayate will "deepen his relationships with squad members, his father and Windermere" not just with Mirage and Freyja. Maybe he's alive and has an important plot reveal to deliver.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Thess

Wasn't Hayate's father a NUNS soldier or did I misunderstand this? Ernest was a free-lance mercenary before he joined Chaos (who would have fought against NUNS if Gramia hadn't dismissed him). If his mother was a Windermerian, Hayate would have said so. By the way he was explaining, he travelled with her (she was an army doctor) while his father was sent to missions. Arad could have known him though, he was the one who was a low ranked NUNS pilot deployed to fight back then, before he quit that and joined Chaos.

I don't think he was killed. IIRC, one of the interviews state that Hayate will "deepen his relationships with squad members, his father and Windermere" not just with Mirage and Freyja. Maybe he's alive and has an important plot reveal to deliver.

Yeah I was mistaken, it was Arad that knew with Hayate's father. I still think hayate could be a hybrid of human/windermere though. maybe it was the opposite though and his father was from Windermere and fought again his planet's war of independence much like Freyja isn't taking their side either. I got the impression that Hayate wasn't terribly familiar with his father outside of all the presents that he sent Hayate. So maybe he didn't know where his father was from.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Thess

Nothing you've linked necessarily proves that they won't get their ass kicked by Kawamori's latest pet project. We don't even know what would Windermerians be like macronized.

Didn't you read Zentradi aren't up sized humans biologically they have different organs when they go big. There are three general types of Zentradi. Soldier types, Staff Officer types and Commander types. Each are differently engineered. Soldier types and Commander types are built for combat. Staff officer types like Exsedol and Tranquil not really thus are weaker than the Soldier type.

Do you know why Miclone chambers are are called Miclone? It is My-Clone. Basically cloning yourself a new body and transferring your consciousness to it.

Now when Zentradi go small they are biologically close to Humans.

Terrans and other races using the Miclone chamber to go Zentran size is rare as they wouldn't be as tough as Zentradi and the chances of them going small again is possibly not survivable.

It is likely why Michael wasn't considering going big to be together with Klan even if we've seen before Zolans can do it.

As for Max going big in DYRL we have to remember Meltrandi there are cyborgs according to Macross Chronicle. Also DYRL is somewhat considered an in-universe movie. The events of Macross being between the TV series and movie. So TV events but DYRL visuals.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

It is likely why Michael wasn't considering going big to be together with Klan even if we've seen before Zolans can do it.

I know how it works. But point is: we don't know if Windermerians (or Voldorians, or Ragnarians, etc) cannot do it.

As for Micheal. IIRC, that was because there's something in his genes that makes him unable to macronize. Klan and Michael have some genetic defect or mutation. Something like that. I remember this bit from one of the infobooks. I should re-check because I skim it over those dull parts.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Thess

I know how it works. But point is: we don't know if Windermerians (or Voldorians, or Ragnarians, etc) cannot do it.

And even if they can do it (remember, its an exception, not a rule), they still all lack a specific trigger gene. Period.

So they grow large, great... well, except they lack everything else that makes a Zentradi a Zentradi.

- Tak

[ippus]

Also---
Still haven't seen the episode, as said before keeping off it for a moment but I did see a few screenshots, and can I say, I'm really glad they finally have a nice outfit in the series?

Like...I dunno...especially coming off a visually fantastic run from Frontier (God help me on those Ebata Risa dress designs. I wish there was an artbook with only her artwork QQQQ) Delta has had some really boring ass costumes for an idol group.

Like their regular costumes are........okay. Really generic, magical girl-ish outfits that have...nice parts? And the last stage costume I remember was just...two colour variations (Blue then red) of a really dull AKB ripoff....

I think this was the first time outside of some casual attire that I thought hey, that's actually squee worthy @_@ If I were a cosplayer I'd have a field day!

[MichiNekoChan]

Originally Posted by ippus

Also---
Still haven't seen the episode, as said before keeping off it for a moment but I did see a few screenshots, and can I say, I'm really glad they finally have a nice outfit in the series?

Like...I dunno...especially coming off a visually fantastic run from Frontier (God help me on those Ebata Risa dress designs. I wish there was an artbook with only her artwork QQQQ) Delta has had some really boring ass costumes for an idol group.

Like their regular costumes are........okay. Really generic, magical girl-ish outfits that have...nice parts? And the last stage costume I remember was just...two colour variations (Blue then red) of a really dull AKB ripoff....

I think this was the first time outside of some casual attire that I thought hey, that's actually squee worthy @_@ If I were a cosplayer I'd have a field day!

Im so glad its not just me! When we finally saw a really decent stage outfit i actually got excited because i was missing how awesome Sheryl (and a bit of Rankas) fabulous stage costumes were...

[charles883]

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Im glad and commented that EVEN Aerial Knight ADMIT that what they did in war is very wrong, cowardly and downright dirty by using Vars and not very righteous

What do you think guys?