AnimeSuki Forums

Kafriel · 2016-07-28, 09:41

Even within KS, Yhwach should have seen an arrow pierce him and go back and delete that timeline. Not to mention, even if it stops his powers for an instant...he has died before, and came back from nothing, in the very same chapter.

So yeah, BS, rush and axe it, whatever.

Kanon · 2016-07-28, 10:06

I'm confused. Is Ichigo's bankai actually his old shikai coated in armor/hollow mask, or did he just go back to his shikai because whatever?

Anyway, as I said earlier, really lame ending to this fight. In fact, the whole fight was terrible.

Kafriel · 2016-07-28, 10:08

It didn't just go back to his shikai, because his shikai was shown to be double swords, so no, it actually reverted to his old shikai, from before it was remade from scratch. Of course, that happened because this way Yhwach punched himself in the face, since that shikai was the manifestation of Ichigo's quincy powers.

Kanon · 2016-07-28, 10:26

But that doesn't make sense, since Yhwach took back Ichigo's quincy powers a few chapters ago. Oh well. I doubt Kubo will even bother explaining it.

The final chapter is just going to get a single normal color page. Naruto had a regular chapter and a full colored chapter for its finale. Even Nisekoi, which ends in the same issue, is treated better, with a color page and extra pages. Somebody at Shueisha really hates Bleach.

itachi-san314 · 2016-07-28, 10:31

The only way to save this is if Aizen becomes the big bad again and we are left on a cliffhanger to be finished later. Then we'd get a chance to see all the unknown Bankais (including Ichigo for some reason) and have a proper final fight.

Kafriel · 2016-07-28, 10:38

Sorry, I don't think there is a way to save this anymore. It just doesn't make sense and any attempt to explain the current mess is more likely to cause extra confusion. Just...let it go, Kubo.

Quote:

The final chapter is just going to get a single normal color page.

And that page shall be bleached white!!!

schedmaster · 2016-07-28, 10:43

After reading the chapter, the question that pops up right away for me is: What characteristics does a great villain have? Certainly, I'm lost and in need of answers.

Kafriel · 2016-07-28, 11:11

Quote:

After reading the chapter, the question that pops up right away for me is: What characteristics does a great villain have? Certainly, I'm lost and in need of answers.

Generally speaking, a great villain must have:

1) First and foremost, some kind of goal in their lives. What do they strive for?

2) The necessary ambition in order to fulfill his goals. It won't do if people can talk them out of world domination!

3) Power. Not necessarily physical strength, but tools at their disposal in order to facilitate their undertaking. Planning alone is not enough - people also count as tools (pawns) for this purpose.

4) Personality. A villain is ultimately a character; they too, require an origin story and defining traits.

5) Panel time. This isn't the happening, you gotta know who you're up against!!! While a villain's actions don't have to be direct and masterful planning is a good thing for a villain to have, their presence must be made clear, either personally or via other ways (letters, events, people, etc).

In BLEACH, Aizen has most of the above covered, but he lacked a good purpose. Even in Xianxia novels, where immortality is what everyone strives for, people don't grow strong just to have more power. Yhwach cannot be subjected to the above standards, because his character has no balance, either in power or in personality.

bakato · 2016-07-28, 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Generally speaking, a great villain must have:

1) First and foremost, some kind of goal in their lives. What do they strive for?

2) The necessary ambition in order to fulfill his goals. It won't do if people can talk them out of world domination!

3) Power. Not necessarily physical strength, but tools at their disposal in order to facilitate their undertaking. Planning alone is not enough - people also count as tools (pawns) for this purpose.

4) Personality. A villain is ultimately a character; they too, require an origin story and defining traits.

5) Panel time. This isn't the happening, you gotta know who you're up against!!! While a villain's actions don't have to be direct and masterful planning is a good thing for a villain to have, their presence must be made clear, either personally or via other ways (letters, events, people, etc).

In BLEACH, Aizen has most of the above covered, but he lacked a good purpose. Even in Xianxia novels, where immortality is what everyone strives for, people don't grow strong just to have more power. Yhwach cannot be subjected to the above standards, because his character has no balance, either in power or in personality.

I think his personality was understandable. With his powers, he grew up believing everything in the world existed for his taking.

itachi-san314 · 2016-07-28, 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Generally speaking, a great villain must have: ...

the funny thing about your post is that Ywach has all of that except an interesting personality. Although when compared to most mangas, the big bad usually doesn't have much of a personality since it's usually a monsterously powerful person or creature who can't relate to anyone. I agree that the big bad should have an interesting personality, but they usually don't. As for Aizen, I think he has all 5 of your points. I like his personality although it doesn't always make sense.

Ryuga · 2016-07-28, 13:18

Yhwach getting done in by the original Zangetsu and the way it came out of Ichigo's bankai was actually cool, I liked that. However, I expected him to take that attack like a champion, or come back or something...but I guess not lol. Perhaps it's his own power that he helped develop in Ichigo defeating him in some kind of ironic way?

Honestly, I dunno what to think. The next chapter needs to explain things....but I'm not holding my breath.

Galaxian · 2016-07-28, 13:40

I would have liked the way Ichigo beat Yhwach if it got a good explanation for both how it happened and why it worked when everything else didn't. However, I doubt we'll get one.

Wandering Soul · 2016-07-28, 13:52

At this point I just want to know what happened to Aizen. There are some other things that need to be explained, but I doubt we'll receive any explanations for those.

quigonkenny · 2016-07-28, 15:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxian

I would have liked the way Ichigo beat Yhwach if it got a good explanation for both how it happened and why it worked when everything else didn't. However, I doubt we'll get one.

It was Zangetsu. The part of Yhwach that was in Ichigo, and apparently still in Ichigo despite Yhwach taking the Hollow and Quincy parts of him a few chapters ago. So Yhwach in effect killed himself. Doubt you'll get a better explanation...

Jack · 2016-07-28, 15:46

Welp, that (the final battle of the Bleach manga) happened. Okay. That's the best I've got at this point, honestly.

Not sure what the point of Yhwach draining Ichigo's powers was when he didn't lose any of his powers, by the way. What's up with that?

SeanQ · 2016-07-28, 15:49

Lol I could have sworn I just read this chapter last week =0

CoolWater · 2016-07-28, 15:49

I hope that isn't the end of the fight.. if so, then it was just anti-climatic and unsatisfying. Typical. Same as the final Aizen fight.

I enjoy bleach building up the characters (like the flashbacks) and most of the fights in general leading up to the main boss fight. But man, the author cannot do these final boss fights justice.

Perhaps I'm old fashioned but the final boss fight is what it should have been leading up to! The final fight should be the best part! Epic and climatic!

Am I the only one that feels this way??

Maybe I was expecting too much.. ah well.

Galaxian · 2016-07-28, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

It was Zangetsu. The part of Yhwach that was in Ichigo, and apparently still in Ichigo despite Yhwach taking the Hollow and Quincy parts of him a few chapters ago. So Yhwach in effect killed himself. Doubt you'll get a better explanation...

That's why I said I wanted a GOOD explanation.

DerGilga · 2016-07-28, 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoolWater

I hope that isn't the end of the fight.. if so, then it was just anti-climatic and unsatisfying. Typical. Same as the final Aizen fight.

The FGT may be an asspull, but the whole decided arc, 20+ chapters, was about Aizen final battle and defeat. The moment Aizen lost his cool after all this chapters was just great. In comparison this final battle sucks majorly..

Ushio the Omega · 2016-07-28, 17:46

Well it's official next week is final chapters for Bleach and Nisekoi. I am honestly surprised how both are ending with so little fanfare.

2016-07-28, 10:06	Link #8742
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	I'm confused. Is Ichigo's bankai actually his old shikai coated in armor/hollow mask, or did he just go back to his shikai because whatever? Anyway, as I said earlier, really lame ending to this fight. In fact, the whole fight was terrible. __________________

2016-07-28, 10:26	Link #8744
Kanon Kana Hanazawa ♥ Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: France Age: 37	But that doesn't make sense, since Yhwach took back Ichigo's quincy powers a few chapters ago. Oh well. I doubt Kubo will even bother explaining it. The final chapter is just going to get a single normal color page. Naruto had a regular chapter and a full colored chapter for its finale. Even Nisekoi, which ends in the same issue, is treated better, with a color page and extra pages. Somebody at Shueisha really hates Bleach. __________________

2016-07-28, 13:52	Link #8753
Wandering Soul Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: America	At this point I just want to know what happened to Aizen. There are some other things that need to be explained, but I doubt we'll receive any explanations for those. __________________

2016-07-28, 15:46	Link #8755
Jack The Most Villainous Name Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Omnipresent	Welp, that (the final battle of the Bleach manga) happened. Okay. That's the best I've got at this point, honestly. Not sure what the point of Yhwach draining Ichigo's powers was when he didn't lose any of his powers, by the way. What's up with that? __________________

2016-07-28, 15:49	Link #8756
SeanQ Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Lol I could have sworn I just read this chapter last week =0 __________________ Your signature was deleted by a Mod because it exceeded the size limit requested in the forum rules! Please take a look at it.

2016-07-28, 09:41	Link #8741
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	Even within KS, Yhwach should have seen an arrow pierce him and go back and delete that timeline. Not to mention, even if it stops his powers for an instant...he has died before, and came back from nothing, in the very same chapter. So yeah, BS, rush and axe it, whatever.

2016-07-28, 10:08	Link #8743
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 35	It didn't just go back to his shikai, because his shikai was shown to be double swords, so no, it actually reverted to his old shikai, from before it was remade from scratch. Of course, that happened because this way Yhwach punched himself in the face, since that shikai was the manifestation of Ichigo's quincy powers.

2016-07-28, 10:31	Link #8745
itachi-san314 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011	The only way to save this is if Aizen becomes the big bad again and we are left on a cliffhanger to be finished later. Then we'd get a chance to see all the unknown Bankais (including Ichigo for some reason) and have a proper final fight.

2016-07-28, 10:43	Link #8747
schedmaster Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Washington, D.C. Age: 31	After reading the chapter, the question that pops up right away for me is: What characteristics does a great villain have? Certainly, I'm lost and in need of answers.

2016-07-28, 13:18	Link #8751
Ryuga Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: England	Yhwach getting done in by the original Zangetsu and the way it came out of Ichigo's bankai was actually cool, I liked that. However, I expected him to take that attack like a champion, or come back or something...but I guess not lol. Perhaps it's his own power that he helped develop in Ichigo defeating him in some kind of ironic way? Honestly, I dunno what to think. The next chapter needs to explain things....but I'm not holding my breath.

2016-07-28, 13:40	Link #8752
Galaxian Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2013	I would have liked the way Ichigo beat Yhwach if it got a good explanation for both how it happened and why it worked when everything else didn't. However, I doubt we'll get one.

2016-07-28, 15:49	Link #8757
CoolWater SOMMS Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: England Age: 36	I hope that isn't the end of the fight.. if so, then it was just anti-climatic and unsatisfying. Typical. Same as the final Aizen fight. I enjoy bleach building up the characters (like the flashbacks) and most of the fights in general leading up to the main boss fight. But man, the author cannot do these final boss fights justice. Perhaps I'm old fashioned but the final boss fight is what it should have been leading up to! The final fight should be the best part! Epic and climatic! Am I the only one that feels this way?? Maybe I was expecting too much.. ah well.

2016-07-28, 17:46	Link #8760
Ushio the Omega Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010	Well it's official next week is final chapters for Bleach and Nisekoi. I am honestly surprised how both are ending with so little fanfare.