(L+CR) Drifters

[James Rye]

I don't think Hirano admires Hitler. I think Hitler being a Drifter just means he didn't die/committed suicide hating/denouncing the rest of humanity unlike the/most of the Ends. This was more of a "the 4th Reich 2.0" try without gas chambers which ended with his suicide again. Kind of interested why he took his life so early after founding Orte though. I mean, this time everything seems to have worked in his favor yet he died, what a year after Orte Empire being established?

[SuitUp]

I'm pretty sure we're gonna find out, eventually, that little Adolf didnt commit suicide, but rather was 'suicided' by virtue of his 2nd in command being the cronic backstabber Germi, who's currently selling out the remains of the Empire

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Well yeah, but "knowing you're going to die as part of this grand scheme that hasn't been decided by you anyway" and "actually experiencing one of the most torturous deaths ever invented by man" are two different things. Let's not forget that as reported by the Gospels Jesus' last words before his death were an anguished scream of "Father, why did you forsake me?". That lends itself perfectly to the 'Ends' interpretation of him just losing his strength and giving in to despair at the last moment. And as kuromitsu said, it's a matter of interpretation. If you find this confusing you don't want to watch "Fist of Jesus". Or read Saramago's "The Gospel According to Jesus Christ" novel which actually makes God the bad guy. It's your right to consider these things blasphemous, but don't pretend that they don't mean what they obviously mean.

On another note, is anyone here under the impression that Hirano is playing around with the idea of actually being apologetic towards the Nazis/admiring Hitler? I don't get this feeling, but apparently some people do, and arguably that's a more muddled issue, so I was wondering.

yeah good points but following that logic then the one which he was supposed to "hate" was the "father" not the mankind since was god himself which put him in all that mess and played around it with him, then if JC was supposed to hate something it was to be "god" not mankind at last following that logic.

about god "not being all love" yeah many bible parts point which god (not JC) is not so "good" and not full about "forgiveness, the fact which he "supposed destroyed" at last 2 cities (sodoma and gamoha) and make a guy loose all his family fortune and health just for a "bet" with the devil (to later give the guy the "double of what he lost) still show which indeed god can do "bad things too" not just good, i'm not a crazy christian and also don't know everything about it ofcourse, but i know enought to know all the "good" and bad parts of it".

Logically speaking if JC had to blame someone for his demise that person was supposed to be god not the mankind.

[cupumanager]

This episode and nobody posted this yet?

YouTube

https://youtu.be/r6qi393Z7L8

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

On another note, is anyone here under the impression that Hirano is playing around with the idea of actually being apologetic towards the Nazis/admiring Hitler? I don't get this feeling, but apparently some people do, and arguably that's a more muddled issue, so I was wondering.

I think that's ridiculous, and if someone thinks this then I'd wager they're not quite equipped to deal with morally ambiguous stories.

I mean, yes, Hitler was a Drifter - which just goes to show that the Drifters are not the "good guys" and the Black King is not a "bad guy". Which shouldn't be anything new, given that that none of the main Drifters are people you could call "good guys", and then there's Saint-Germain, a shameless turncoat, who is very much not a good guy, and is also a Drifter... hell, Oda Freaking Nobunaga is also a Drifter, and as history, numerous characters, and Nobunaga himself have noted and will continue to note, Nobunaga is also very much not a good guy. It was made very clear that his plans for post-revolution Orte are not particularly benevolent, either. And sure, the Ends are insane and are led by the Black King who is out to destroy mankind, but on the other hand the Black King is unifying the so-far oppressed races and lifting them up, giving them agriculture, economy, common language, etc. So he's only a bad guy when it comes to humans, otherwise he is still a savior.

Two, we've already seen the true face of Hitler's Orte, which I think should make it perfectly clear that we're not supposed to think that the Orte Empire is awesome and Hitler did nothing wrong. We've seen the elves reduced to oppressed serfs and the dwarves to slaves held in concentration camps. The only ones who got anything out of Hitler's reform are the humans. (And if you want to apply a real-life parallel, there were many people IRL who were pretty much OK with what Hitler was doing because it benefited them and they didn't care about what it did to other people whom they deemed inferior anyway.) So if anything this is not "Hitler was actually kinda nice" but more along the lines of "humans are assholes who only care about themselves." I mean, the fact that it's Saint-Germain who praises Hitler should be a dead giveaway. It's pretty much established that Orte is a horrible place that might have helped its human residents in the short run, but enslaved other races and eventually got bogged down in a never-ending war on all fronts that's slowly but surely leading to its collapse.

So basically there's a whole lot of moral ambiguity here, with no clear good side and bad side, and the story isn't particularly concerned with trying to preach either. But instead it has people like Toyo, who, despite their other shortcomings, have at least a strong sense of justice (as opposed to all the characters who don't give a rat's ass about silly things like that).

[The 48th Ronin]

Is Hannibal sane now?

Shit, Mitsuhide's here now. Another member for the Ends.

Nobu is salivating at those muskets. Yes, your wet dream is very close now.

[grecefar]

so it really was mitsuhide... maybe drifter?, it seems that all of the japanese are drifters.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by grecefar

so it really was mitsuhide... maybe drifter?, it seems that all of the japanese are drifters.

Well no, Hijikata Toshizou is an End, and whichever he might be, Minamoto no Yoshitsune is hanging out with the Ends, too. Given that Nobunaga is a Drifter, I think there's little doubt as to what side Mitsuhide is on.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Well no, Hijikata Toshizou is an End, and whichever he might be, Minamoto no Yoshitsune is hanging out with the Ends, too. Given that Nobunaga is a Drifter, I think there's little doubt as to what side Mitsuhide is on.

Well, he could be a Drifter too. Imagine the wacky hijinks when they have to work together !

[The 48th Ronin]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Well, he could be a Drifter too. Imagine the wacky hijinks when they have to work together !

Can they surpass the comedy duo of Hannibal & Scipio?

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Well, he could be a Drifter too. Imagine the wacky hijinks when they have to work together !

Oh my god I'd pay to see that.

[Kanon]

I think Mitsuhide is a Drifter too, given that he seems injured. Drifters seems to be taken to this world right before their deaths, whereas Ends are taken here after it (at least that was the case with Jeanne). Would explain why the Ends have superpowers and why their bodies are made of salt.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I think Mitsuhide is a Drifter too, given that he seems injured. Drifters seems to be taken to this world right before their deaths, whereas Ends are taken here after it (at least that was the case with Jeanne). Would explain why the Ends have superpowers and why their bodies are made of salt.

Historically, Mitsuhide's death is pretty certain. Since y'know, Toyotomi Hideyoshi killed him in revenge for what he did at Honnouji quickly enough to present his freaking severed head at Nobunaga's funeral.

[AntonKutovoi]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Historically, Mitsuhide's death is pretty certain. Since y'know, Toyotomi Hideyoshi killed him in revenge for what he did at Honnouji quickly enough to present his freaking severed head at Nobunaga's funeral.

Actually, no, it isn't. Mitsuhide's body was never found and theory about him being Tenkai is REALLY popular. Though I like the version where peasants kill him better

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

Actually, no, it isn't. Mitsuhide's body was never found and theory about him being Tenkai is REALLY popular. Though I like the version where peasants kill him better

Oh, wow, didn't know. Well, for such a legendary story there ought to be conspiracy theories going around .

[Stark700]

Episode 11:

LOL, that Saint-Germi guy is hilarious. Easily becoming one of my favorite characters in this series now.

Besides the comedy, we also get a bit of strategic battle talk. Shimazu kicked some ass as usual. Oda and Saint-Germi had some tense and humorous exchanges while we get more buildup for the final battles.

Can't wait to see Shimazu, Yoichi, etc get into action. They look fired up! Black King's intentions seems quite sinister at the same time though...

[mickbis]

Keep smiling you fool.. HA!

Nobunaga rekt Rasputin really hard

[AntonKutovoi]

Can anyone identify the first anime Saint-Germi referenced, when speaking of Nobunaga? The second one is Sengoku Basara (with Norio Wakamoto impression by Sugita) and the third one is Hyouge Mono. I think of Nobunaga the Fool, but kinda doubt it.

[Yamada II]

Episode 11

So the plan to take over the Orte capital by the Ends ended up being wrecked with the Drifters marching in with their elven dwarven army which now has a gay special forces team in it thanks to Count Saint Gay. Saint Germi probably spent all the state's money on his makeup instead of increasing his army to at least more than 500. And Nobunaga hands those 500 men those newly made muskets with one hell of a recoil for these newbies. That was pretty brutal how they defeated those Ends forces. Bullets from the front, arrows from above, and then to wrap things up, dwarves and a Toyoshisa charging at them. That's how you nekoing annihilate an army. These badasses are too much.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by AntonKutovoi

Can anyone identify the first anime Saint-Germi referenced, when speaking of Nobunaga? The second one is Sengoku Basara (with Norio Wakamoto impression by Sugita) and the third one is Hyouge Mono. I think of Nobunaga the Fool, but kinda doubt it.

The first one is Sengoku Basara too, specifically the Battle Heroes intro.
(Wait for it. Seriously, wait for it.)

Fitting, given how Oda Nobunaga in Sengoku Basara is basically "OK, let's take the Oda Nobunaga tropes... AND TURN THEM UP TO ELEVEN". Remember when SB was unabashed over the top fun?

Edit: ah, I give up on embedding videos. It never works for me.
Edit 2: made it work, yay!