Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 49 Discussion / Poll

[Skaddix]

You going to Ban Me or are you going to keep insulting and haranguing me with weak jokes.
If you ask me a Mod shouldn't be insulting posters with lame jokes and harassment

But you do you.

[Kuroi Hadou]

The funniest thing about all of this is you thinking RD is a moderator.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

But I also like how he went out here too, him basically being a one man army against Rustal's forces. Honestly, Gaelio may have won his fight, but he will never gain my respect. Something McGillis will always have.

At least there are things that you can be proud of McG: he ended up never betraying Tekkadan this entire season and even went out of his way to help Tekkadan multiple times (even though his plan was chaotic & his life was also repeatedly saved by Mika). And he genuinely want Almiria to be happy.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

The thing is, I feel that some parts of what you said are right, but I think many of the things that have happened didn't need to happen either. I saw nothing wrong with their desire to become Kings of Mars. I never saw it as "delusions of grandeur". I think it was actually quite doable if things hadn't fallen apart as they did in the third half.

The thing about Orga preparing to be the King of Mars is that they already counting their chickens before they hatch. McG promising something that’s still beyond his reach and has no guarantee of achieving, just like the empty promise that he said to his men in this very episode before he died. As you can remember, I already voiced this concern ever since Orga & McG shook hands. If I (and many others) can already felt bad things coming way back then, that means this show is doing a good job when it comes to foreshadowing what's to come and not just turn it to tragedy at the last minute.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Naze himself accepted this, and even died telling Orga to become the King of Mars and take care of his family.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Naze just wanted Orga to protect his family. Even if Naze agreed with the "King of Mars"-plan, that's because he didn't know the holes in McG's plans even before the "Muh Bael" fiasco.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I'm actually wondering if the message they are trying to convey and why it doesn't fit with me, is more of a cultural clash thing between the Japanese who are more about fitting in and moderation, where the West is more about standing out and having ambition and always striving for more?

I don't think that was the message. If if was, they would've painted Iok & Rustal in a more positive light but so far, it's the contrary. Iok has been painted as a popular clown who even received a moral beatdown from Rustal of all people, and Rustal itself is painted as the corrupt agent of status quo to the point that he slaughtered his own men for PR and allowed illegal arms-dealer like Nobliss roam free doing his deeds as long as he answered to him and status quo is preserved.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I guess it's possible, but even if that's what they wanted to do, I think they could have shown it in a better way then they did.

Indeed. The "Muh Bael" fiasco still left a bad taste in my mouth even though it's understandable given McG's psyche & tendency. Some opportunities are definitely missing here. But I don't think it ruins the entire season or show either.

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

That raises the question...

Macky/Bael showed great skill holding his own against the Ein Robobrain system which was shown to be on par with a Gundam with the limiter disengaged. However, I find it odd McGillis never kicked Bael into turbo mode. Like I said, he was holding his own against Gaelio solidly, at the cost of an arm or a leg the turbo mode would have been enough to put him over the top and kill Gaelio and Rustal right then and there would it not?

There are two possibilities:

1) Mika, McG & Gali's AV-System are different from each other. Mika operate on whiskers that will make the Gundam eyes turn glowing red and claim the body parts of the pilot when it goes berserk. Gali relied on Type E (Ein's brain) to take over his body and the Gundam. Meanwhile, we don't know the specs of McG's system and how it works. Given the above fact, it's possible that McG was already berserk-ing with Bael all this time. Kimavid's eyes don't turn red when it goes berserk, so it's possible that Bael has been doing it too.

2) McG didn't go turbo/berserk/overclock because he simply didn't know how to do it with his unique AV-system.

I found the former more likely than the latter.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

You going to Ban Me or are you going to keep insulting and haranguing me with weak jokes.
If you ask me a Mod shouldn't be insulting posters with lame jokes and harassment

But you do you.

He's not a mod. I am. If the only thing you are going to do is repeat the same negative points over and over with no interest in discussion, find another place to post. Negative commentary is fine, as long as it is conducive toward discussion. Complaining over and over again and not giving a shit what others think? Go somewhere else and spare everyone your "opinions". This isn't a blog, spare us your whining.

[Azurial]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

At least there are things that you can be proud of McG: he ended up never betraying Tekkadan this entire season and even went out of his way to help Tekkadan multiple times (even though his plan was chaotic & his life was also repeatedly saved by Mika). And he genuinely want Almiria to be happy.

The thing about Orga preparing to be the King of Mars is that they already counting their chickens before they hatch. McG promising something that’s still beyond his reach and has no guarantee of achieving, just like the empty promise that he said to his men in this very episode before he died. As you can remember, I already voiced this concern ever since Orga & McG shook hands. If I (and many others) can already felt bad things coming way back then, that means this show is doing a good job when it comes to foreshadowing what's to come and not just turn it to tragedy at the last minute.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Naze just wanted Orga to protect his family. Even if Naze agreed with the "King of Mars"-plan, that's because he didn't know the holes in McG's plans even before the "Muh Bael" fiasco.

I don't think that was the message. If if was, they would've painted Iok & Rustal in a more positive light but so far, it's the contrary. Iok has been painted as a popular clown who even received a moral beatdown from Rustal of all people, and Rustal itself is painted as the corrupt agent of status quo to the point that he slaughtered his own men for PR and allowed illegal arms-dealer like Nobliss roam free doing his deeds as long as he answered to him and status quo is preserved.

Indeed. The "Muh Bael" fiasco still left a bad taste in my mouth even though it's understandable given McG's psyche & tendency. Some opportunities are definitely missing here. But I don't think it ruins the entire season or show either.

There are two possibilities:

1) Mika, McG & Gali's AV-System are different from each other. Mika operate on whiskers that will make the Gundam eyes turn glowing red and claim the body parts of the pilot when it goes berserk. Gali relied on Type E (Ein's brain) to take over his body and the Gundam. Meanwhile, we don't know the specs of McG's system and how it works. Given the above fact, it's possible that McG was already berserk-ing with Bael all this time. Kimavid's eyes don't turn red when it goes berserk, so it's possible that Bael has been doing it too.

2) McG didn't go turbo/berserk/overclock because he simply didn't know how to do it with his unique AV-system.

I found the former more likely than the latter.

Kimaris eyes turns red too just like Barbatos if you look closer when Gaelio use Type E and is also hard to tell if Bael is in "Exam mode" or "Berserk mode" whatever is called XD cause Bael eyes is red but one things we know is one heck of a fast Gundam faster than Kimaris even. But overall I think Bael has more potential but McG didnt use it to fully

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Azurial

Kimaris eyes turns red too just like Barbatos if you look closer when Gaelio use Type E and is also hard to tell if Bael is in "Exam mode" or "Berserk mode" whatever is called XD cause Bael eyes is red but one things we know is one heck of a fast Gundam faster than Kimaris even. But overall I think Bael has more potential but McG didnt use it to fully

Oh, I must've missed that. Did it also leave a red trail like Barbie? If so, I guess both scenarios are equally likely. The problem is, which one?

[Rising Dragon]

It did, yeah.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

It did, yeah.

Yeah, that's my miss.

So....Bael was either already berserk-ing all this time, or it wasn't because McG didn't know how to do it, or his unique AV-system simply can't do it. Which one do you think more likely?

[Wing Kigu]

Gaelio is using Eins second brain because he doesn't have the Alaya-Vijnana, it's not the same thing as using the stock Gundam overclock mode, it's Ein taking control of the suits functions giving him the reaction time he needs to hold his own against an AV combatant.

We've seen the Gundam Berzerk mode is enough to stomp Ein. The Berzerk mode I assume is stock in all Gundams for fighting mobile armors, McGillis knows this function exists and it's effects as he witnessed it used in Edmonton against Graze Ein and on mars against the rampaging mobile armor.

It didn't look like he was using it in the final battle, there was no blood, no intensity etc It would have been fairly obvious if he had the limiter turned off, he died because he was toying with Gaelio, slowly dismantling him, making speeches, having delusions of grandeur, and he got taken by surprise. And by the end, although he was critically injured he still had use of all his limbs.

He was blinded and died by his own arrogance. If he had the system engaged he would have Rekt Gaelio/Ein.

[Rising Dragon]

It's pretty clear that Gaelio DOES have the Alaya-Vijnana System, actually, else it'd have no need to attach to him when he activates. And the first time he clearly reacted to the connection.

What's different is that it's also using Ein's brain to bypass the part that'd be dangerous to Gaelio, so that his Gundam doesn't start assimilating him like Barbatos did to Mikazuki. And IIRC the chief mechanic stated that due to this, Gaelio can bring out the full output of the Kimaris, like Mikazuki was able to with the Barbatos, at none of the cost.

That said I don't think he was toying with him. McGillis was fighting a lot more recklessly but we do need to remember, McGillis knows how Gaelio fights. He conquered him in battle once before, and in their previous fight he got the upper hand on him again, and would've won had it not been for the injury Almiria inflicted upon him. I think what we saw was McGillis going all out. It just wasn't enough in the end.

[DMurphy]

Yeah, I agree that we saw McGillis going all out. He wasn't toying with Gaelio, he was genuinely trying to kill him. As far as the Gundams' berserk mode goes, I'm not sure McG even can activate it -- Akihiro and Shino never have, so it seems like it's limited to Mika, whose bond with his Gundam is particularly special.

What took him down wasn't that he wasn't fighting properly, or even that Gaelio on his own is a better pilot -- I mean, he might be, we don't really have a clear metric on that -- but that Gaelio and Ein working in concert with each other outmatched McGillis.

It was a rather poetic way for McGillis to lose, both in the sense that he's brought down by a system he had a hand in creating, and in the sense that he, someone who proclaims himself to have no friends (although the truth of that claim is extremely dubious), gets brought down by two friends working together.

(Or -- I mean, Gaelio and Ein are, at this point, an extremely twisted friendship, but nevertheless.)

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

At least there are things that you can be proud of McG: he ended up never betraying Tekkadan this entire season and even went out of his way to help Tekkadan multiple times (even though his plan was chaotic & his life was also repeatedly saved by Mika). And he genuinely want Almiria to be happy.

While Gali has grown a bit here and there, in the end he's actually not that different that he was before. He just broods more. When we first see him, he's a naive whining brat. And he's STILL a naive, whining brat. He just whines about different things now.

The thing about Orga preparing to be the King of Mars is that they already counting their chickens before they hatch. McG promising something that’s still beyond his reach and has no guarantee of achieving, just like the empty promise that he said to his men in this very episode before he died. As you can remember, I already voiced this concern ever since Orga & McG shook hands. If I (and many others) can already felt bad things coming way back then, that means this show is doing a good job when it comes to foreshadowing what's to come and not just turn it to tragedy at the last minute.

I don't know, Orga and Macky's partnership did help each other out. The end game didn't work out, but them being partners was fine. I don't see it so much as "counting your chickens" but more of planning ahead. You don't just step into that kind of role without some kind of planning first. You have to set up that kind of position. For him to be counting this chickens early, I think would be he beginning to dismantle Tekkadan HQ and moving into Mars Gjallarhorn HQ or something like that. I think it was a plan that could have worked. And hey, it was a chance and they took it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Naze just wanted Orga to protect his family. Even if Naze agreed with the "King of Mars"-plan, that's because he didn't know the holes in McG's plans even before the "Muh Bael" fiasco.

Be that as it may, he still accepted it and was fine with it. Not everyone is going to know everything all the time. That's the way anything goes. Sometimes you just make a decision based on the info you are given at the time. I think if anyone had known about the Bael plan, they would have counseled Macky on having several back up plans in case that didn't work. It was the fact that nobody knew the plan until it was done that caused a major stumbling block.

[Wing Kigu]

Gaelio is above average at best, he has to activate Ein's brain in order to fight equally with Alaya-Vijnana fighters. We see that without it against Mikazuki/Barbatos he doesn't stand a chance.

From what we have seen, the berzerker mode can be engaged at will, Mika only used it when absolutely necessary. Mika used it against Graze ein so it doesn't necessarily have to be used in response to a mobile armor, and presumably Akihiro could have also used his against the rampaging mobile armor as well but was warned of the consequences by the engineer and talked out of it, Mika stepped up was willing to make the sacrifice.

I don't think Mika is special, the berzerker mode is a vital function in the Gundams ability to kill mobile armors.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

Gaelio is above average at best, he has to activate Ein's brain in order to fight equally with Alaya-Vijnana fighters. We see that without it against Mikazuki/Barbatos he doesn't stand a chance.

From what we have seen, the berzerker mode can be engaged at will, Mika only used it when absolutely necessary. Mika used it against Graze ein so it doesn't necessarily have to be used in response to a mobile armor, and presumably Akihiro could have also used his against the rampaging mobile armor as well but was warned of the consequences by the engineer and talked out of it, Mika stepped up was willing to make the sacrifice.

I don't think Mika is special, the berzerker mode is a vital function in the Gundams ability to kill mobile armors.

Akihiro was KO'd by his own limiter. he didn't have a say in the matter, whereas Mika was mostly unaffected by it aside from Barbatos not working at first



Personally I don't doubt that any AV equipped pilot can pull past the limiters and access the frames full power, I think its more a question of how much a person can pull based on their will/how connected they are

[Wing Kigu]

Well that was his do or die moment and for whatever reason he didn't use it. Who knows what it would have done. He maybe would have died instantly from a heart attack or if he was tough enough to survive it Bael could have turned red, had fire shooting out of his wings, and explode everything. No one can say, we'll never know.

It's Agnika Kaieru himself mobile suit, the king of killing mobile armors, we still never saw the full extent of it's powers.

It's such trolling, I know people who to this very episode held out hope that McGillis got this. He had a plan, something up his sleeve at the very least he would unleash Bael full power and take down Rustal. Nothing. He played right into Rustals plan. It was as we feared, absolutely no plan. No chance of victory. So he was completely delusional? I was expecting more.

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Just because things turn sad or into tragedy, doesn't mean it's unnecessary. If we all follow your standard, classic stories like Oedipus, Hamlet, Romeo & Juliet and tons other gangster movies are pointless stories which of course isn't true in the slightest.

Also, for people who can't accept tragedy & sad things happening to MCs, I recommend you to watch Gundam 0080: War in the Pocket. One of the best Gundam story out there. Yes, IBO is not the first to go down this path.

Except the problem is that 15+ episodes feel pointless now since all that build up is thrown out the window when "Muh BAEL" and following fiasco happened. While tragedy is not exactly my cup of tea, i had my fill of characters dying in several Gundam shows.....Zeta and Victory gets honorable mentions.

Here it just feels that the writers Okada are killing off characters for to finish the story with cheap shock factor and drama. It's also impossible to see the antagonist side in a sympathetic light as most of them are just corrupted adults or whiny brats who gets to survive because of dumb luck.

Btw what is the moral of the story after all the child abuse, pedophilia, political marriage and other disturbing things............."Don't try to change your shitty destiny because the writers Or Okada will make you FAIL". Guess i am in the wrong for actually wanting to see Tekkadan and Macgillis succeed.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Wing Kigu

Gaelio is above average at best, he has to activate Ein's brain in order to fight equally with Alaya-Vijnana fighters. We see that without it against Mikazuki/Barbatos he doesn't stand a chance.

From what we have seen, the berzerker mode can be engaged at will, Mika only used it when absolutely necessary. Mika used it against Graze ein so it doesn't necessarily have to be used in response to a mobile armor, and presumably Akihiro could have also used his against the rampaging mobile armor as well but was warned of the consequences by the engineer and talked out of it, Mika stepped up was willing to make the sacrifice.

I don't think Mika is special, the berzerker mode is a vital function in the Gundams ability to kill mobile armors.

Did we watch the same show? Ever since Gaelio broke out the Kimaris he was able to fight Mikazuki on an even footing--and that was without the AV-System. He was Mikazuki's natural predator. It only really changed when Mikazuki had the Lupus Rex, which had the unfair advantage of a mobile armor weapon. Adding Ein wasn't there to balance the scales, it was there to tip them in Gaelio's favor.

[Wing Kigu]

^Nope he plainly says it himself. He gets knocked on his ass and says it: "You're right McGillis, I don't stand a chance against him but..." Then he activates Ein.

Even before he becomes Vidar, he gets his butt kicked in all his encounters, he really shows no exceptional piloting skills.
The way it's portrayed is Ein is the one doing all the fighting, Gali literally throwing his arms is the air saying use his body.
It's the same situation as Edmonton, robobrain Ein isn't something Mika can defeat without kicking off the limiters.

I'd go as far as to say without Ein Julieta would mop the floor with him easily.

[Rising Dragon]

At that point he probably didn't stand a chance--he did have the superior machine. Doesn't change the fact that throughout the show Gaelio has consistently fought on the same level as AV users without the AV himself. As I said, using Ein was just tipping the scales in his favor.

And getting his butt kicked? First time with Kimaris, he was only driven back because two Gundams ganged up on him. Second time, caught off-guard by equipment specifically designed to counter him when he had the upper hand. Final time? Mikazuki couldn't get the upper hand and needed someone to take the heat instead so he could go fight Ein.

You're in denial. Still.

[vic-vic]

I agree with Rising Dragon, at the end of season 1 Gaelio already shows that he CAN give Mika a hard fight. What he lacked, aside of AV-System, in his first deployments against Tekkadan it's determination and ferocity, now he had both in spades.

And I don't really get why people complain that season 2 is wasted potential? it's a very neat deconstruction of standard Gundam thropes. Even if your ideals are good and you have a great determination, it's efinetly NOT a guarantee of win against a corrupted reigime. Especialy, if said regime had a smart man to lead them, lor of firepower and connection. Sorry, in real life this would end for Tekkadan exaclty like this when GH is done playing nice - they sustained a horrendous loses, lost the moneys ad now on desperate run for their lives.

I doubt that a lot of named Tekkadan characters would survive next episode. Even Eugene is think they are done for...