Race issues: Privileges, Relations, Racism and other related stuff

[Archon_Wing]

The only reason the these fascists aren't prone to as much violence as they were is because people that opposed them fought hard enough that and they can no longer get away with it. They would be crushed if they tried. Preaching tolerance in this area is a slap in the face of the many that died to attain equality for their peers.

Numerous movements by a lot of groups were needed to marginalize the shit out of them and it was for the better.

Sorry, it is simply not possible to just extend to tolerance to anyone by default. If someone is a part of ISIS, then they should definitely be arrested, and take note I am also sick of the left's unwillingness to firmly take a stand against Islamofascism as well.

There is simply no place in civilized society for these people. No, I don't as of now, encourage people to seek out and hunt down Nazis Inglorious Basterds style. And I do believe they have 1st amendment rights. But rest assured the moment any of them attempt to impose their will on the groups of people they have been terrorizing for years, then yea, they should get what's coming to them.

Regardless, my main point was not to really incite violence, but rather to contest the notion that this outgrowth was caused by SJWs and liberalism or whatnot, but instead it's simply opportunistic scum that have come out of the woodworks. And this is different from Republicans, mind you, regardless of how they've latched on.

[Eisdrache]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They're rather different kinds of motivations. One being ludicrous and not really believable. A fig leaf for people who don't want to say their real reasons, but are too lazy to come up with a convincing lie.

The other's just being irresponsible.

Drain the swamp has been very real republican propaganda and a reason for their supporters to vote. Speaking of propaganda, we all know how much the republicans made up during their campaigns. For their voters however it doesn't matter. They will happily accept anything that goes against the democrats, the establishment, the swamp or even better all of them together. It is indeed irresponsible but democrats have ignored the issue altogether and strongly left the impression of not caring about their problems at all. And you're continuing that trend. Rather than repeating how stupid someone is that he voted republican the more important thing would be to look for the reason why these groups have flowed to Trump and give them the impression that politicians take them serious. Is someone who voted Trump with motivations like above a racist? You have yet to come up with a convincing argument.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But hey, you want me to admit that it's possible to not be racist and still support racist policies? I suppose it is. Especially in the kind of package deal you get with American politics. Maybe, even for those who actually cared about policies rather than labels, homophobia was the leading concern. Or, yes, maybe something else, I'm not sure what.

True, it was a mess. The last election cycle has been crazy even for American standards.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Though at some point, you've got to wonder what "being racist" means. Because it seems to me that you only want to count people who viscerally hate foreigners, or people of a different race. That it's the thought that counts, not the actions. And I'm not sure I agree with that.

What I want is for those who think that ~50% of the voters are racist to come up with a better argument than 'lol they voted Trump'. Like I said there is more than one reason to vote republican and sweeping generalizations flat out ignore that.

[kanoguti]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

The only reason the these fascists aren't prone to as much violence as they were is because people that opposed them fought hard enough that and they can no longer get away with it. They would be crushed if they tried. Preaching tolerance in this area is a slap in the face of the many that died to attain equality for their peers.

Numerous movements by a lot of groups were needed to marginalize the shit out of them and it was for the better.

Sorry, it is simply not possible to just extend to tolerance to anyone by default. If someone is a part of ISIS, then they should definitely be arrested, and take note I am also sick of the left's unwillingness to firmly take a stand against Islamofascism as well.

There is simply no place in civilized society for these people. No, I don't as of now, encourage people to seek out and hunt down Nazis Inglorious Basterds style. And I do believe they have 1st amendment rights. But rest assured the moment any of them attempt to impose their will on the groups of people they have been terrorizing for years, then yea, they should get what's coming to them.

Regardless, my main point was not to really incite violence, but rather to contest the notion that this outgrowth was caused by SJWs and liberalism or whatnot, but instead it's simply opportunistic scum that have come out of the woodworks. And this is different from Republicans, mind you, regardless of how they've latched on.

Thank you. Very well put together post, and I can understand your though process better now. You have changed my outlook

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

Drain the swamp has been very real republican propaganda and a reason for their supporters to vote. Speaking of propaganda, we all know how much the republicans made up during their campaigns. For their voters however it doesn't matter. They will happily accept anything that goes against the democrats, the establishment, the swamp or even better all of them together.

One or the other, Eisdrache. You can't expect me to accept that on the one hand they believed Trump's propaganda, that he would look out for the little guy, and on the other that they're not really, really stupid. Pick one.

It is indeed irresponsible but democrats have ignored the issue altogether and strongly left the impression of not caring about their problems at all. And you're continuing that trend. Rather than repeating how stupid someone is that he voted republican the more important thing would be to look for the reason why these groups have flowed to Trump and give them the impression that politicians take them serious.

It's not that I don't care about their problems. It's that I don't care for that they think of as solutions.

Unless their problem is that only the white Christian heterosexual male should stay unoppressed. In this case, yeah, I don't care.

Is someone who voted Trump with motivations like above a racist? You have yet to come up with a convincing argument.

Like I said, thought isn't the only thing that counts.

True, it was a mess. The last election cycle has been crazy even for American standards.



What I want is for those who think that ~50% of the voters are racist to come up with a better argument than 'lol they voted Trump'. Like I said there is more than one reason to vote republican and sweeping generalizations flat out ignore that.

You're so keen to defend them, you come up with good reasons to vote Trump. (Well, maybe the rich have good reasons, but they're not a large demographic.)

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

You're so keen to defend them, you come up with good reasons to vote Trump. (Well, maybe the rich have good reasons, but they're not a large demographic.)

Okay here's one and it has to do with Bengazi and military families, i know for a fact that several military families voted for trump because they believed that they couldn't let hillary control the miltary that there family members was a part of because it was widely believed at the time that hillary advised to let those soldiers die and couldn't let that happen to there family members and they believed it would if hillary got in power, there one of the reasons people voted for trump.

Oh and how about the promise of the abolishment of NAFTA or the the north american free trade agreement an agreement that many factory worker believed stole their jobs because it allowed for the factories to be relocated outside of the country or atleast that is what people believe.

People didn't vote for trump because they were racist i'm sure a very vocal minority were, they voted for him because at the time because he promised something that people believed he would deliver or just so they could make sure hillary couldn't win.

It is not an either or scenario where if you voted for trump you a racist and if you didn't your not, and i would like to remind that it wasn't just white people who voted for trump several blacks, hispanics, and asians(there are several videos online of people admitting to voting for trump) did as well. He wouldn't of won if only white racists voted for him.

[OH&S]

^Now say that again with grammar, punctuation and formatting.

Edit: Thank you.

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by shadow1296

It is not an either or scenario where if you voted for trump you a racist and if you didn't, and i would like to remind that it wasn't just white people who voted for trump several blacks, hispanics, and asians(there are several videos online of people admitting to voting for trump) did as well. He wouldn't of won if only white racists voted for him.

http://imgur.com/a8WjmMb

He would still win

[Serovectra]

Originally Posted by OH&S

^now say that again with grammar, punctuation and formatting.

Let's not stoop to that level. Unless you want to start listing the names of everyone on this forum with poor punctuation, grammar and formatting.

[Applehell]

So in the wake of Charlottesvile, Discord and GoDaddy has banned alt-right servers. Google has banned Daily Stormer. The mayor of Boston has disavowed alt-right from attending a rally that was to being held here in 5 days. Confederate monuments that were planned to be taken down have sped and those weren't are now going to join them. People identified as taking part in the incident have lost their jobs and some outright disowned by family members.

It's great to that this having a huge domino effect and serious consequences coming out of this tragedy. The Neo-Nazi has has basically doomed themselves they are regret not staying back in their holes.

EDIT: There is huge protest going on at Trump Tower right now, all live streamed:
https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/...type=3&theater
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01t18idFK4s

[OH&S]

Originally Posted by Serovectra

Let's not stoop to that level. Unless you want to start listing the names of everyone on this forum with poor punctuation, grammar and formatting.

TL;DR…

short response

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Serovectra]

I suspect it's not a strong point of theirs. I've come across some smart people in life that were less than adequate when typing on a keyboard. I assume the same applies to the written English language in general.

OT, so that's it for me.

[Applehell]

Also a Confederate statue in NC Durham just got toppled by protesters: https://twitter.com/virginiabridges/...34979633147904

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Applehell

So in the wake of Charlottesvile, Discord and GoDaddy has banned alt-right servers. Google has banned Daily Stormer. The mayor of Boston has disavowed alt-right from attending a rally that was to being held here in 5 days. Confederate monuments that were planned to be taken down have sped and those weren't are now going to join them. People identified as taking part in the incident have lost their jobs and some outright disowned by family members.

It's great to that this having a huge domino effect and serious consequences coming out of this tragedy. The Neo-Nazi has has basically doomed themselves they are regret not staying back in their holes.

EDIT: There is huge protest going on at Trump Tower right now, all live streamed:
https://www.facebook.com/cnn/videos/...type=3&theater
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01t18idFK4s

well they are getting what they asked for..., they think which because the president is a misogeny, racist, sexist and xenophoby, which now they can have freedom to do whatever they want, but they forget which actually having a president being like that still don't means which they get freedom and the law and norm still valid and they can get deep punished.

Originally Posted by OH&S

TL;DR…

short response

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

going a little off, well remember the rules forums don't say which your grammar must be perfect, it must be good enough for peoples to understood it and if he did it and you where able to understand then you can't go asking that at last on that way if you want to do, do it on private cuz this can make yourself endind get punished by not following forum rules, remember not everyone here is a perfect english/american speaker and the majority which not are, are trying they hard to come good as they can and are "learning, or sometimes they had some trouble and not where able to proper "text" like texting during a traveling in cell phone and things like that.

Originally Posted by Applehell

Also a Confederate statue in NC Durham just got toppled by protesters: https://twitter.com/virginiabridges/...34979633147904

well that was a little to afar, now the "not racist peoples" acted almost like the peoples they hated, this not was a righ thing to do, they where supposed to ask the local laws to remove it, not act like vandals exactly like they peoples they hate, this is just "fighting fire with fire" and generate more hate and violence.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

well that was a little to afar, now the "not racist peoples" acted almost like the peoples they hated, this not was a righ thing to do, they where supposed to ask the local laws to remove it, not act like vandals exactly like they peoples they hate, this is just "fighting fire with fire" and generate more hate and violence.

The state government in NC (which is currently run by Republications) currently passed a law last that made impossible to take down legally, so this is the only way. It's good thing as it's directed towards symbols of White Supremacy that never had any value in modern America and at least they aren't killing not people unlike a certain group. There is far better be honored rather than racists and traitors.

[Serovectra]

Moral of the story: If the law doesn't suit you; break it! Am I reading this correctly?

I honestly can't fathom how people can get so worked up over a statue. What does tearing it down illegally accomplish besides pissing off the white-nationalist group even more. Hiding the truth doesn't make it go away.

Traffic blocking and statue tumbling. What an inspiration to us all.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by Serovectra

Moral of the story: If the law doesn't suit you; break it! Am I reading this correctly?

I honestly can't fathom how people can get so worked up over a statue. What does tearing it down illegally accomplish besides pissing off the white-nationalist group even more. Hiding the truth doesn't make it go away.

Traffic blocking and statue tumbling. What an inspiration to us all.

the thing is which they where in places where make them looks like a "good simbol", while actually they not where, them or move them to a museum or something like that or ask local government to remove then, break then as long doing in a legaly way for me is fine, this is not "hidden truth" the truth still on books, it's just making sure which they don't be a "simbol" which indeed they where not supposed, at last on good one, because they represented, racists and separatists, which wanted to break USA apart, they not where really heroes, at last not for peoples which cared about american and liberty, because they where the ones fighting to break usa and keep the black peoples as slaves.

they don't wher a good exemple, they where part of a dark past in usa, which even with the statues removed or break they gonna still part of a dark and bad past.

[Ithekro]

The question is, are we seeing the end of the old "The South will rise again" school of thought, or is this the beginning of the Second Coming of the Confederate States of America?

[Serovectra]

Breaking statues doesn't change peoples opinion on the issue. They will still be a symbol to the people who want them to be. Literally the only thing this accomplished is inciting even more hate from extremist groups. This is a purely instigative act.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

the thing is which they where in places where make them looks like a "good simbol", while actually they not where, them or move them to a museum or something like that or ask local government to remove then, break then as long doing in a legaly way for me is fine, this is not "hidden truth" the truth still on books, it's just making sure which they don't be a "simbol" which indeed they where not supposed, at last on good one, because they represented, racists and separatists, which wanted to break USA apart, they not where really heroes, at last not for peoples which cared about american and liberty, because they where the ones fighting to break usa and keep the black peoples as slaves.

they don't wher a good exemple, they where part of a dark past in usa, which even with the statues removed or break they gonna still part of a dark and bad past.

That's not really what the civil war was about, yes it was a part of it but not until half way during the Civil War even Lincoln said if keeping slavery would have kept the union together he wouldn't have touched it. It was about states rights vs. federal rights several southerners believed the federal government was over extending its reach and that is why it seceded. The war was going to happen with or without slavery but outside the US slavery is what the war was about only.

The statues and flags were never meant to be symbols for white supremacy. They meant to honor men who fought for their homes(for those uninformed there were no civil war battles fought in the north all were fought in the south). Its just that these groups and popular culture has made them such. And because of that it is no question that they will either be legally removed or illegally destroyed.

[Toukairin]

Originally Posted by Serovectra

Breaking statues doesn't change peoples opinion on the issue. They will still be a symbol to the people who want them to be. Literally the only thing this accomplished is inciting even more hate from extremist groups. This is a purely instigative act.

Instigative? Some hogwash there.

Around 3 generations of Germans after WW2, I say that the German efforts to remove and outlaw all Nazi symbols worked pretty well in changing mentalities for a vast majority in the longer run. On the other hand, the situation in the US is a direct result of the federal government not having the balls to remove everything associated with the Confederacy for 152 years after 1865. A lack of quick and decisive response have led to this; that's the truth. Regardless, it's about time actions are taken to correct the mess.

As for anyone who wants to be openly associated with those groups in 2017, they can go screw themselves. The authorities should start being more aggressive on those groups as they already are against foreign terrorism. Amidst all this mess, I'm happy that people have stopped being silent about those groups.

edit:

Originally Posted by shadow1296

The statues and flags were never meant to be symbols for white supremacy. They meant to honor men who fought for their homes(for those uninformed there were no civil war battles fought in the north all were fought in the south). Its just that these groups and popular culture has made them such. And because of that it is no question that they will either be legally removed or illegally destroyed.

Dear, oh dear. I have to stop you there because you totally missed the biggest and bloodiest battle of all in the Civil War: Gettysburg. And the endgame of Gettysburg was an attempted attack by the South on Washington. Furthermore, those statues have been an attempt to whitewash the dark reality behind those men. For instance, one can now read that Lee was firm on slavery, and never believed for one second that black people could work to become equals with white people. It was mostly blatant during negotiations between him and Grant on prisoner exchanges.