Danganronpa 3: Despair Arc - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[SibylEnd]

I expected this, but I wasn't ready for this brutal execution, gotta give it to them, all the hope and despair shit is justified when the viewer can literally feel the hopelessness of the characters and situation.

Originally Posted by Gilly

I know, right? I don't think we've had such a brutal execution since Leon's. Actually, it may have topped Leon's. I couldn't even bear to finish watching, just closed the tab and read the summary (with screenshots) elsewhere. And f**k Izuru. He has infinite talents, but didn't even bother to help one single person. What's the point in having them, then?

Not surprised at Juzo's gay confirmation, but I'm definitely disappointed that he let Junko get away.

I feel that was always intentional, the heavy nihilism and extropianism(probably the wrong word) dycotomy that existed between both Chiaki and Hajime/Izuru was always my favourite part of the series. more so now that Chiaki has been presented as a character who originally confined herself to playing games on her own (who's a mary sue now?). So Chiaki can sort of see where Hajime is coming from.
Also the gay thing went over my head; this series always framed the idea of Juzo being gay as a joke, and now to see it not be a joke makes me feel bad for laughing along with it whenever they mentioned it. Now I can see why individuals feel so insecure about their sexual orientation.

Rant trying to make sense of chiaki and hajime: It seems the confidence issue was something both Chiaki and Hajime shared; which is something I deeply appreciate in DR3, sure there were shades of it in DR2 when you see her commuting to the same spot every single day or how she would differentiate herself from the group whenever the situation wasn't dangerous.

with Chiaki overcoming the confidence issue thanks to Hajime and Hajime losing his confidence when in the presence of Chiaki and hopes peak(although it's difficult to overcome a confidence issue that is routed in your individualality rather than confidence in a hobby). The confidence being the lynch-pin in all this, Izuru has all the confidence and abilities but no values, hajime has no confidence and abilities but is valued by Chiaki, Chiaki has grown confident and values her friends. In the sense that you have nothing if you have no confidence even when you have others or even the greatest of abilities. I can see why people call her a mary sue but I believe it serves a purpose in the sense that Chiaki represented an Ideal next to individuals dealing with their massive flaws and almost represented the wishes of the viewers(i.e. someone help hajime or save everyone from Nagito in CH-4). and it sort of goes into the idea that a perfect character(or someone who appears to be perfect) will highlight the flaws of any individual they interact with(what I liked about P4). And to see Chiaki die pretty much means that my hopes for a happy ending died with her.

Edit: I need to fix how I build my arguments; it's just a mess here.

[Dengar]

I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call her a Mary Sue. Since both as a person and as a character she is genuinely likable. The way she's basically "the heart of the class" really doesn't feel implausible.

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to call her a Mary Sue. Since both as a person and as a character she is genuinely likable. The way she's basically "the heart of the class" really doesn't feel implausible.

I feel the same way, I myself meant to say that she looked like a marry sue simply because she is generally such a reserved character, as such her flaws don't get much attention(or you could interpret her timidness as a flaw or whatever). while the writing does a good job highlighting her strong aspects and using her as a way to realise our good will/wishes for the rest of the cast(Which could be mistaken for wishfullfillment is what I was getting at in my previous comment). Edit: With the idea that Chiaki seems perfect being me refering to Hajimes view of everyone in hopes peak and by extension Chiaki being perfect, Nagito makes a point of saying that hajime doesn't belong with everyone else as he also shares the same views as hajime but instead accepts his position. i.e. that's not meant to be me saying Chiaki is literally perfect, just that Hajime views her as such, and with us playing as Hajime in DR2; of course that idea would be pushed onto us.

That and I was mostly paraphrasing whenever I was referring to her as such, I really don't like getting into the character-A needs flaws discussion trope. But yeah I feel she is framed to be an analogue for Hajime/Izuru that complements Hajimes character beautifully. Hajime to me is framed as insecure and incapable as fuck, by extension; Chiaki is presented as everything Hajime isn't and Hajime is presented as everything Chiaki isn't. Which is why I can buy into the idea that Chiaki sincerely valued Hajime; since their characters pretty much supported one another and her relationship with her classmates did a lot for Chiaki's established insecurities, rather than her being the oh so perfect character who just loves everything and everyone others staple her to be. they needed each other in a way, which extends to her classmates of course(Desperatly trying to avoid crossing into the shipping realm here)

so yeah I buy into the idea that she is genuinely likable as as well, I'm just having my imaginary argument with youtube commenters, ignore me please.

[Gan_HOPE326]

I never really thought of Chiaki as a Mary Sue. I mean, she's obviously meant to be a sympathetic character in DR2 already, she's obviously set up as "best waifu", much more than any single girl in DR1 (where for me Kyoko and Hina were on par really) . But this is Danganronpa, ALL characters are exaggerated and usually defined by being able to do one/two things very well. More than proper flaws, a lot of characters simply have quirks. Chiaki is certainly supposed to be attractive for the combination of sweetness/innocence and for her gaming hobby (which obviously hits a chord if you're, well, PLAYING DR2). But she's also portrayed as very shy - also lethargic - and in DR2 in the end her supposed "perfection" isn't even that inexplicable given that she's not even human. Here her role was certainly a bit weird - going from loner to heart and soul of the class - but it's hard to consider her a Mary Sue for it when we knew from the very beginning that she was due for some horrible death, or worse.

Also, let's face it, if there's a Mary Sue in this story it's freakin' Junko Enoshima . Just... is there a word for a Mary Sue that is actually evil and a villain and her super-convenient perfect talents are all in service of making life miserable for everyone else ?

[SibylEnd]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

Also, let's face it, if there's a Mary Sue in this story it's freakin' Junko Enoshima . Just... is there a word for a Mary Sue that is actually evil and a villain and her super-convenient perfect talents are all in service of making life miserable for everyone else ?

Freaking Junko, I'll refrain from expressing my full views on the character not unless I want to violate the character bashing rules. my abridged version is; Why do people actually like this girl? she just seems like a vain little girl who with good reason, thinks she can do whatever she wants but never cared for should she? I actually like Monaka thanks to Future Arc since it shows she's not self indulgent or arrogant enough to carry through her romanticizations of despair. Junko's basically in love with despair in the same sense that Nagito is in love with hope (while monaka was in love with Junko); I get it, Love makes you do crazy things I guess, so much so that both get sexually aroused by it, It's well written crazy but still isn't something I can come to understand why people would like it.

My closing statement regarding Chiaki is that there's a difference between being presented as a mary sue and being one. along with presenting a character as perfect and that presentation of perfection making them a mary sue. mary sues aren't even purely about perfection, it's about them doing nothing wrong relative to the narrative and not so much as them not doing general wrong.

[DMurphy]

Junko is -- an interesting case to talk about, if we're talking about whether she's a good character, because she tends not to be written consistently from installation to installation.

Danganronpa 1's Junko bears only a superficial resemblance to Danganronpa 3's Junko who in turn doesn't really resemble Danganronpa Zero's Junko who isn't at all like Danganronpa IF's Junko. They all don't really work as a coherent character, and that's very obviously not intentional -- it tends to be given a free pass and assumed to be intentional because Junko has her personality-switching gimmick, rather forgetting the fact that that is both very obviously a veneer she puts on to conceal her true nature, and the fact that even that does not carry over into every installation.

Usually, that's something I'd expect to be saying if these were all written by different people, but they're not, and so the conclusion I have to come to is that Junko was not meant to be this prolific within the series. While she is the big bad, I don't think she was ever intended to be the main antagonist (with the distinction being that one is the grand high villain in-story, and the other is the most prominent villain -- they do not have to be the same) of the entire franchise: That's Monokuma, who is functionally a different character from her at this point, at least from a storytelling perspective.

Instead, I'd speculate that Junko's popularity from the first game led to her inclusion in more and more things, and that's kind of revealed the cracks in the writers' ability to actually portray her, because as a character, she doesn't work well when an audience has prolonged or frequent exposure to her. She works best when she's glimpsed, and then exits.

[Gan_HOPE326]

I think the way Junko embodies the concept of Despair in its highest form - to genuinely feel despair at bad things and yet pursue them because that emotion is all that makes you feel alive, the only one you can still feel besides unending numbness - is a fascinating if disturbing idea, and that's what makes me interested in her. It's also implying that she actually DOES suffer at seeing all her own evil deeds - if she didn't, she wouldn't despair at them. Or perhaps she's so desensitised to them now she needs to kick up the evilness every time in the hope (...ha!) of finding something that will finally be again truly despairing for her.

Makes you wonder why she didn't just commit suicide years ago...

Anyway, yeah, that's the gist of it. My comment about her Mary-Sueness was more about her skill. In a different way she seems to bend reality at her will just like Nagito does - her mere presence is enough for stuff to suddenly go her way. Mostly because plot.

[Dengar]

Well, I really would chalk Enoshima's "inconsistency" to the fact that her being inconistent is kind of her character trait.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Well, I really would chalk Enoshima's "inconsistency" to the fact that her being inconistent is kind of her character trait.

Nnnno, I mean -- I said that people tend to give her a free pass because she has a personality-switching thing, but Junko as presented in the first game is not nearly as inconsistent as she initially seems. The latter parts of chapter six very overtly set up her 'inconsistency' as being an act (which is not even getting started on how she consistently played Monokuma for weeks), not her true personality, and moreover, not every installment presents her as actually having an inconsistent personality. Danganronpa Zero, for example, substitutes that with a kind of abrupt-topic-switching nature, where she flits between things like fashion, politics, food, etc with very little warning.

One of the big inconsistencies in how writers portray her is that when she turns up in later installments, her personality-switching and inconsistency is presented as being real. It's certainly not the only place where later parts of the franchise fall down in writing her, but it's part of it.

[stray]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

That's Monokuma, who is functionally a different character from her at this point, at least from a storytelling perspective.

That... seems like a weird thing to say given how much of an 'origin story' vibe we've had in Despair. If she seems inconsistent I would say its more on the surface though... her 'values' for lack of a better word are pretty consistent.

She works best when she's glimpsed, and then exits.

I dunno, maybe I'm a sadist deep down (my compatibility test for 77 came back Saionji FWIW) but I'm a big fan of Junko and am actually really happy with what we've been getting from Despair. To each their own I suppose.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by DMurphy

Nnnno, I mean -- I said that people tend to give her a free pass because she has a personality-switching thing, but Junko as presented in the first game is not nearly as inconsistent as she initially seems. The latter parts of chapter six very overtly set up her 'inconsistency' as being an act (which is not even getting started on how she consistently played Monokuma for weeks), not her true personality, and moreover, not every installment presents her as actually having an inconsistent personality. Danganronpa Zero, for example, substitutes that with a kind of abrupt-topic-switching nature, where she flits between things like fashion, politics, food, etc with very little warning.

One of the big inconsistencies in how writers portray her is that when she turns up in later installments, her personality-switching and inconsistency is presented as being real. It's certainly not the only place where later parts of the franchise fall down in writing her, but it's part of it.

I didn't really say anything about an inconsistent personality, though. I meant it more in the sense that she herself is inconsistent.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I didn't really say anything about an inconsistent personality, though. I meant it more in the sense that she herself is inconsistent.

Then I have to admit I don't really understand what you're getting at: A personality is who a person is, after all, and Junko's inconsistencies were all very much treated (in the first game, at least) as an act.

[Dengar]

A person is more than just their personality though.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by Dengar

A person is more than just their personality though.

Then, what inconsistencies are you talking about? I mean, her appearance changes, but that is really more of a minor thing that's meant to indicate a personality swap.

[Kanon]

I expected from the very start that Chiaki would die, but I didn't think her death would be so horrifying. It was heart-wrenching to see her reach the "goal" door (I'm sure we all knew what was going to happen if she opened), thinking she had managed to escape this nightmare and reunite with her friends, only for her to get brutally skewered.

RIP ;_;

[Guido]

This is two part episodes that follows from the Future arc.

No words can describe the tears I shed and sadness that I felt watching Nanami getting brutalized after going through that hell of a game that Junko sadistically put her through in order for the latter to perfect her despair video.

It was an even more emotional tearjerker to watch her struggling in her dying moments just to reach and help Izuru and desiring not to die in order to do more things and playing games again with Izuru/Hinata, and tears running on my cheeks seeing her dying for good and Izuru picking-up her hair accesory just as doing so triggered an emotional response from within Izuru that he could not comprehend and yet silently bursting in tears as if a part of him died.

Rest in Peace, Chiaki Nanami.
You left a small speck of hope slumbering within the Hinata, whose memories were deleted, and yet you did not mind at all trying to help again and to play games with him one more time, in spite of what despair did to you.

[DarkJak2050]

Alright, I know that I'm hella late for this. After nearly a year of Danganronpa 3 being waitlisted, I'm finally able to watch it. No, it's not that I put it off. It's because when I put Danganronpa 3 on my waitlist, there were already a lot of animes ahead of it. And I watch animes on a nightly basis. That should give you an idea of how many animes I have waitlisted.

As for this particular episode; well this basically sums it up for practically everyone here and myself...

Although, I did watch the first anime for Danganronpa. From what I can tell, the Timeline between with the first anime and Danganronpa 3 should be:

D3: Despair Arc
Danganronpa: The Animation
D3: Future Arc

So, looking back on that, somehow I'm a bit content with how the first anime ended.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by DarkJak2050

Alright, I know that I'm hella late for this. After nearly a year of Danganronpa 3 being waitlisted, I'm finally able to watch it. No, it's not that I put it off. It's because when I put Danganronpa 3 on my waitlist, there were already a lot of animes ahead of it. And I watch animes on a nightly basis. That should give you an idea of how many animes I have waitlisted.

As for this particular episode; well this basically sums it up for practically everyone here and myself...

Although, I did watch the first anime for Danganronpa. From what I can tell, the Timeline between with the first anime and Danganronpa 3 should be:

D3: Despair Arc
Danganronpa: The Animation
D3: Future Arc

So, looking back on that, somehow I'm a bit content with how the first anime ended.

Actually:
D3 Despair
Some mangas and spinoffs
Danganronpa + mangas and spinoffs
Some Mangas + spinoff games and so on
Danganronpa 2/ Super Danganronpa
D3 Future

[DarkJak2050]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Actually:
D3 Despair
Some mangas and spinoffs
Danganronpa + mangas and spinoffs
Some Mangas + spinoff games and so on
Danganronpa 2/ Super Danganronpa
D3 Future

Thanks, but I was only mentioning the 2 anime series. From how that looks though, it seems that I'm right on what order they're in.

Alright, it's been a few nights since I've seen this episode, so I had some time to get some things together to better explain my thoughts/reactions.

This isn't the first anime where I've seen something like this, no. I've been watching animes on a regular basis since I was in High School, which was 11 years ago. So I've seen some rough anime episodes.

Higurashi, Elfen Lied, Shiki, Another, Blood-C and Corpse Party to name some. Even Danganronpa 1 (which is why I watched this). But...

Spoiler for ...:

I'll have to say that this was the roughest one I've seen in years. And I rarely say something like that.

I don't understand it myself... As I mentioned before; I've seen some animes that can be gruesome; Hellsing (Ultimate, too), Akame ga Kill and Future Diary serving as other examples, yet I was okay with them.

Then, when I saw this episode, it hit me where it really hurts. I don't know why, but it did.

Just to be sure, I thought I was the only one who felt this way. So I saw reaction videos of this episode on YouTube, and I found out that I wasn't. One video I noticed the most was NicoB's. In the last 2 minutes of that, he just fell apart.

I don't know how much anime he's watched prior to that, but I don't blame him for falling apart the way he did.

It seems that this episode's going to stay with me for a while.

Alright, that's enough said. If... If you'll excuse me...

[FFTHEWINNER]

Finished Episode ten of despair arc. have to say first that i was pretty pissed off all day because a game i was playing for over 20 hours (pathfinder:Kingmaker) got regular save file loading issues and now i cant play it anymore because any progress i make keeps failing to load. add to that that i am having electricity problems(literally cut in the middle of watching this episode and had to watch the rest on my laptop,and it is still out) and you can understand what mood i was in when i started this episode,and the episode certainly didnt help my mood...

-so the first thing we see is junko outboxed the ultimate boxer,although i guess that was because a trillion guys were helping her. a little unbelievable,but not an issue. her using the photos against him to shame him and threaten him was a pretty damn good scene too. just what that a****** deserved.

-Gundham and Nekomaru came from a pretty random door in the path. how did they get to that area from that door exactly? >_>

-well,f***. my last hope for a chisa plot twist died out. what pure and utter crap. how is this written by the same guy who wrote the amazing DR1??!!

-i was atleast right about Junko,not Izuru,killing Chiaki to push the rest of the class into despair.

-although it is surprising that this happened before the group suicide.

-a few nice game references with the court and Monokuma and the punishment time CGs. would have preferred monokuma to talk though. also,Nanami was put in a place that resembles a typical dungeon crawler game,which was a nice touch.

-so the whole group,except tsumiki(and arguably Nagito),fell into despair by watching the Nanami video. this not only feels so wrong,but is a big plothole. take a look at this:
https://image.myanimelist.net/ui/OK6...NH0cUXDFmOWMZ4
this is a clear statement from the game about how they were converted,which is the exact opposite from here. Here,only Tsumiki(and arguably Nagito)were converted like this. the rest just watched a torturous brainwashing video. like,even Chiaki is more believable since her brain centers that recieve and interpret feelings were played with so she would receive pleasure from despair. even that didnt happen to the rest.

-that torture was brutal. it was even a little heavy for me. i quite enjoyed the student council and Chisa scenes,but i felt a bit uncomfortable here. i guess it was because of the emotional relationship we built with chiaki throughout DR2 and DR3.

-so we get a confirmation that Izuru's memories were deleted. that is surprising and a minor plothole,considering that the scientists listed the things they took from hajime and his memories werent one of them. also, Izuru had his first emotional reaction.

-Chiaki still being alive and able to move after all that didnt feel believable. The scene was pretty well done and sad though, so it achieved what it set out to do.

dont know what to think of this episode. the things it did well it did very well,but the things it didnt do well it did atrociously.

also,just for fun,how do you think the 77ers would have been converted if Junko converted them one by one like the original canon clearly states?
my thoughts:

-Mikan and Nagito: Like the anime,with a touch of appreciation for mikan before that like what she talked about in DR2

-Fuyuhiko and Peko: Sister's death

-Camera girl: confrontation with Fuyuhiko followed by Junko offering protection if she follows

-Gundam: Torturing his animals in front of him

-Teruteru: Using his mom in some way,probably kidnapping first to force him to follow then someone killing her in front of him

-Ultimate Imposter: Something to do with Ryota

that is half of them,will think of the other half sometime later. tell me your thoughts too!