(L) Shingeki no Bahamut ~Virgin Soul~ (S2)

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

So? Alessand still didn't kill Mugaro because he followed that order. (I wonder if he even knows about the order, or if he just has a vague understanding of Mugaro being a threat to the black knights' power -> good target to kill to prove himself for the black knight leader.) He killed the kid because he wanted to join the black knights. He didn't say "take me to the king, I killed the holy child!" He went to the black knights. Also, I'm pretty sure that while Charioce wouldn't be sad about Mugaro's death if he knew about it (and why would he, again? from his POV it's one less threat) Mugaro's importance has obviously moved way lower on his list of priorities since the activation of Dromos. He's long moved on to something much bigger.

Oh please, again, stop making excuses.
What does Alessand killing El wither ulterior motive has anything to do with Charioce ordered the kill?
It is Charioce saying it is okay to kill the boy that this can happen in the first place.
Or you a believer of the wretched idea that only the person who committed the murder directly is guilty and never the person who gives the order?
El no longer is Charioce's priority and he moved on to something else? So what?
Charioce didn't take El from his kill list, and his entire army is still entitled to kill El.
What Charioce think inside his mind completely does not matter unless he put it into words and change his order.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Oh please, again, stop making excuses.
What does Alessand killing El wither ulterior motive has anything to do with Charioce ordered the kill?
It is Charioce saying it is okay to kill the boy that this can happen in the first place.
Or you a believer of the wretched idea that only the person who committed the murder directly is guilty and never the person who gives the order?
El no longer is Charioce's priority and he moved on to something else? So what?
Charioce didn't take El from his kill list, and his entire army is still entitled to kill El.
What Charioce think inside his mind completely does not matter unless he put it into words and change his order.

allessander only killed mugaro because he know which charioce want him dead otherwise he could not have any reason to kill him in first place, because, he knew which killing this children could be so important which he could get a big promotion, otherwise he could not had risked like that if killing that children not was "that important" for the kingdom.

the guy was aware of how important for charioce is him to be killed, because in the beginner he told which he was for the children head all the times, everyone in the army and castle was aware of it.

[Mistyclear]

I'm slightly confused here on how Nina is to partially blame for Els's death, who ever said that has thrown me for a loop.... Also there's a kill order on every last of Nina and co not just El, actually in the last few episodes Nina was considered a bigger threat to them yes? After all even without El's help she overwhelmed the black knights and their magic thing, they sent another dragon at her because they understood that they themselves didn't have the means to deal with her, magics useless, arrows are useless, swords are probably useless (no ones gotten close enough to try), their golem things were also useless she took those out with relative ease (she only faired worse off in episode 13 because she was protecting Jeanne, then again she did take a head shot and didn't really react to it, except glaring), plus Charioce has a soft spot for her.... ya she's probably the black knights worst opponents considering El neutralizes them making them vulnerable but he himself doesn't attack afterwards, Nina breaks the magic then goes on a rampage anyway destroying a lot in the process. Also correct me if I'm wrong but while they were wary about Els power they more worried about him joining the Gods and causing war, which he did anyway, humans won though.
Also no single race in this series is innocent they've all done stuff, but then the first thing any of the races think about is protecting themselves over other race, just like countries in the real world, so they end up lashing out at the group they feel offended them, humans at gods and demons (latest episodes also have humans mad at certain humans), demons at humans and gods (then again these two never get along, the exception being when Bahamuts on a rampage and El and Azazel the latter shocked me considering how he acted in the first season) and angels at humans and demons.

[Skaddix]

Because Nina's Inability to go Dragon when needed and getting in the way has prevented the her friends putting Charoice 6 feet under.

[scififan]

Favaro, who voluntarily and be forced to find Amira's mother, indirectly helped to free Bahamut. Is he also guilty for what he is doing? Because his and Kaiser's involvement, the culprit who pulled the string behind the scene can stay in dark in the last season. Azazel figured out something was wrong in the last season, but he could not find a clue, until there were three episodes left.

[haseo0408]

Originally Posted by scififan

Favaro, who voluntarily and be forced to find Amira's mother, indirectly helped to free Bahamut. Is he also guilty for what he is doing? Because his and Kaiser's involvement, the culprit who pulled the string behind the scene can stay in dark in the last season. Azazel figured out something was wrong in the last season, but he could not find a clue, until there were three episodes left.

Favaro didn´t know at first what Amira really was, when he found out it was far too late to undo the journey and you can´t compare an inocent girl like Amira with a monster like Charioce!. The only person on Mystarsia that does not want Charioce dead is Nina.

[Renchan]

Originally Posted by haseo0408

Favaro didn´t know at first what Amira really was, when he found out it was far too late to undo the journey and you can´t compare an inocent girl like Amira with a monster like Charioce!. The only person on Mystarsia that does not want Charioce dead is Nina.

There were plenty who want Amira dead back then. Actually, most people who knows what she was, wants her dead.

[Skaddix]

Well sure killing Amira is for the greater good was necessary. Much like killing Charioce is.

Difference is Charoice chose to became a monster, no one forced, tricked or manipulated him into picking a War with the Gods, Enslaving Demons, Cracking Down on the Gen Pop, etc.

Amira on the other hand spent her whole life getting manipulated.

[Blueknight78]

looks like we are really entering on the "grey zone" age with all the "negative and do "anything" for the great good" is now the norm and probably peoples like charioce or even hittle will be start to see as "heroes" because they where doing things for the "great good" and being a scum and jerk is "good" and be good and honest is crap and idiot.

charioce currently is being really the big villian of this serie but at the same time the anime is trying hard to keep him in that "black(borderline grey)" zone for the "sake of the fans" where nina is his anchor for his "ultimate redemption", which i can still see this happening, he being "forgiven for his actions, since this already happened in recreators then the same thing can happening here, where the big scum of the anime will get a happy ending and everyone will cheer and be happy for him despise all the crap he did, because all he did was "for the great good".

[Skaddix]

Meh Favaro and Amira deserve the Happy Ending far more than Nina and Charioce...Ignore the greater stuff. Amira never tried or gave orders to kill Favaro's Friends.

[drawr]

I think Favaro forgot to ask why he got jailed. I still don't get that or why Charioce was such a dick to pretty much everyone. Jeanne has more to be mad about beyond Mugaro, to be honest.

[Mistyclear]

Originally Posted by drawr

I think Favaro forgot to ask why he got jailed. I still don't get that or why Charioce was such a dick to pretty much everyone. Jeanne has more to be mad about beyond Mugaro, to be honest.

True she does have many things to be angry over, however El was pretty much the only piece of joy she's had in the last 10 years and she loved him beyond all reason, as expected of a mother, also she's been trapped in guilt as well. In my opinion, for her any bad thing that happens to her personally she probably felt she deserved it , until El came along and proved to be the one thing that no matter what she didn't want to lose and wasn't willing to surrender, which is why the creators pissed me off when they did what they did, I mean seriously her one source of joy gone just like that, and not even by Charioce or the black knights but some wimpy wannabe whose a complete idiot and did it on a whim, he saw the boy walking down the hallway and he's just like oh hey if I can kill him they'll let me join the black knights, to which he didn't even join, because he wasn't willing to risk his life he was to frightened by that but didn't hesitate at all to kill an innocent boy who never did a damn thing to him and in fact was the child of his supposed idol to who then goes on a roaring rampage of revenge and dares to say it's not his fault, did he think she would just smile and forgive for the loss of her baby boy the person she loved most.... and this has turned into a rant about Alessand if you can't tell I hate the guy...I'm gonna walk away take some deep breaths to cool down.

[Kanon]

Welp, no twist whatsoever after all. Charioce's goal is to destroy Bahamut as everybody had guessed, and he wasn't even being manipulated by a third party (the ancient civilization). Unless Martinet intentionally planted that book in his hidden room in case his main plan failed so that whoever finds it would eventually resurrect Bahamut. That would be impressive, manipulating people even after his death.

Hated how they had Favaro basically try to convince us Charioce did nothing wrong. Charioce persecuted El for months/years, and Alessand would have never even thought of killing El if Charioce hadn't ordered his men to kill the holy child on sight. Sure, Alessand did it for selfish reasons and I fucking hate him for that, but Charioce is still responsible for making El a target in the first place (an order he never retracted). That's pretty much what Jeanne told Kaisar, and she's completely right. Although she's driven by revenge right now, her way of doing things could have been worse. She let the civilians evacuate and accepted humans into her ranks, turning this into a war against Charioce and his oppression rather than one against humanity.

As for the Nina situation, while he didn't explicitly give the order, he made it pretty clear to the leader of the Onyx knight that he was free to deal with her as he wished. I'm pretty sure he knew he wasn't going to give her a hug.

[Guardian Enzo]

The only one in the episode who made any sense was Jeanne, and it seems like we were supposed to think she was in the wrong because of it.

[zalem]

Meh, as I suspected nothing about his goal justifies his messed up behavior. I mean I didn't think anything could because I saw no legitimate reason for his vile treatment of demons. And I'm still skeptical about the war on the gods. Maybe if he approached them with his plan and they refused to help. Then again, I can't blame them for refusing (and that's assuming he even really told them anything concrete, if he didn't that just makes it worse). You have a weapon as strong as Bahamut and you are just going to hand it over to some random dude whose true goals you don't know anything about? Yeah, no. That sounds like a bad plan, so they tried to protect that power and keep it hidden. Understandable.

[Skaddix]

Yeah we all saw this coming the plan is still dumb\

1) What is the guarantee that Bahamut decides to follow Charoice besides plot contrivance. We have seen Bahamut before and he doesn't move...Maybe he chase if they used Favaro as bait (Amira connection and Bahamut remember he got sealed) but I see no reason he cares enough to chase Charoice.

2) Why construct your weapon so far from your target? Assuming Bahamut chases he is going to devastate the country side and the capital before Charoice fires a shot.

3) Why trust Marinet? I am mean forget how he got this information in the first place. But this is the guy he was basically the cause of the whole previous crisis? He is also know for being a master manipulator so why would you trust him? I mean I am sure it will work because these writers stan for Charoice Hard. But logically it makes no sense.


Why is Favaro making excuses for Charoice? Charoice put him in jail for hard labor for no good reason? And tortured him? Why would he be pro Charoice? Oh right we need to justify this disgusting ship. Not to say Favaro doesn't have a motive to let Charoice try this insanity, he can use it to save Amira but it doesn't appear he is spewing said justifications for that since this is post Nina trying to kill Char.

Also acting like Jeanne is only mad about EL? Did she not also spend time in prison? I mean sure Allessand wasn't directly told to kill El but Charoice has been trying to kill the kid for years. Plus his crimes of you know slaver. And has Jeanne not united the races like Kaiser wanted?

[SeaDoor]

I think the writers have a lot of explaining to do. With this episode I believe they seriously veered off the story line they had established to the point that to me no one's actions seem to make sense anymore. This is pushing an asspull with the only thing missing is for Amira to suddenly appear and ...

Right now, I am disappointed.

[Skaddix]

Oh Amira is definitely coming considering how Favaro has had an Amira Related Flashback every episode he has been back in.

[Incest Emblem]

Originally Posted by Skaddix

3) Why trust Marinet? I am mean forget how he got this information in the first place. But this is the guy he was basically the cause of the whole previous crisis? He is also know for being a master manipulator so why would you trust him? I mean I am sure it will work because these writers stan for Charoice Hard. But logically it makes no sense.

From the subtitles, it sounded rather like that what they found was not Martinet's notes. Rather, it was an ancient text that they found in Martinet's room. In other words, they are not trusting his word. They are trusting their ability to verify the age of the text, and they are trusting that the ancient writer is correct.

It is deeply disappointing, because it implies that the writers are going with the route of attempting to pass Charioce off as a tragic hero who sacrifices himself for peace. I would have preferred to see Martinet manipulate these arrogant and genocidal bastards from the grave and for their plan to blow up in their face, requiring the combined forces that Jeanne and Azazel pulled together to save them. I can think of no better punishment than to see him die, knowing that all those murders he conducted was merely to endanger the world sooner than necessary, and that his enemies had to save him from his foolishness.

[blakstealth]

I feel so drained and nonchalant at this point. It's about time Jeanne killed some people.