(L) Dragon Ball Super

[Hoodspirit]

Since you bring the stamina regen up, what if Goku learned to absorb free energy?
In the Buu saga, buu awakened from the energy that was set free as Goku and Vegeta fought each other.
The Genkidama is a technique that focuses on absorbing energy and he has been using it for a long time, but in this tournament it was the first time that energy entered his body and wasn't just used externally for an attack.
If he learned to make free energy enter his body, that would be pretty hax though.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Sixth

The only things that is bothering me is how the hell is Goku going to replenish his stamina by fighting people? Does this means Goku's regen more stamina points per seconds that he was exerting to fight against Kale? (Regen 5000 stamina point per second, spend 500 stamina to troll Kale and so on).

So, it is only 1 minute passed in this episode. This means the characters were instead fighting at light speed or their time concept is extremely different than our.

Yeah, that's kind of offensive towards them both.

"Show us our true potential Goku! You're not fighting seriously!"
"Well DUH. Right now I'm actually resting. I'm spending, like, 10% of my energy stopping you two. It's really quite the time waster."
*Caulifla ragetransforms into SSJ3*

[Mad Pierrot]

So this episode only lasted one minute?

Still, if Caulifla and Kale are out then their universe will be erased?

[Guernsey]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

So this episode only lasted one minute?

In Frieza time.

[Hoodspirit]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

Still, if Caulifla and Kale are out then their universe will be erased?

Universe 6 still has 2 Namekians, so no. Last time they were seen they fought Piccolo and Gohan.

[Idealist 99]

Originally Posted by Nvis

Makes sense Vegetto is the only one to beat Jiren.

Since it's 1 minute per episode, all the time needed for SSJ Blue Vegetto to knock out Jiren.


Unless Ultra Instinct SSJB Goku with Kaiokenx20 for 5 seconds can do it.

Nah, Goku already has Beerus and Whis whom he will never beat.
There are no need to bring more rivals that will remain out of Goku's reach, specially if Jiran is not the last rival Goku will have in Dragonball series.

[Kanon]

The episode was pretty exciting, and they managed to make Super Saiyan 3 look good for the first time in DBS.

Potara fusion being allowed opens up a whole can of worms. The whole thing could turn into a fusion fest, because what's stopping every Kaoishins from throwing their Potaras at their two strongest fighters?

I can't imagine how overjoyed Kale will be to fuse with Caulifla.

Originally Posted by Mister Twit

Damn, why would you have an episode preview right before the episode? That kind of took the fun out of it.

All the same a good episode, though. Is this really the first time there's been a straight canon SSJ2 battle? You'd think it would have happened before but iirc Goku died before he could spar with Vegeta or Gohan at SSJ2 level.

Goku and Vegeta fought against each other as SSJ2 in the Buu arc. Rather brief fight in the manga, but the anime masterfully extended it.

[Maverick]

Originally Posted by Kanon

The episode was pretty exciting, and they managed to make Super Saiyan 3 look good for the first time in DBS.

Potara fusion being allowed opens up a whole can of worms. The whole thing could turn into a fusion fest, because what's stopping every Kaoishins from throwing their Potaras at their two strongest fighters?

I can't imagine how overjoyed Kale will be to fuse with Caulifla.



Goku and Vegeta fought against each other as SSJ2 in the Buu arc. Rather brief fight in the manga, but the anime masterfully extended it.

Yep, was about to point that out, though, Vegeta cheated a little by being Majin.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Maverick

Yep, was about to point that out, though, Vegeta cheated a little by being Majin.

I thought actually the Majin effect was what allowed him to unlock SSJ2 there. Not sure if he had that before already.

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

I thought actually the Majin effect was what allowed him to unlock SSJ2 there. Not sure if he had that before already.

When Goku fought Yakon he briefly transformed into SS2. In this exact moment, Vegeta realized he couldn't compete with Goku. It gets worse when Vegeta realized that Goku had another Super Saiyan transformation. However, at least according to the video games, against the the little Majin Buu, Vegeta went SS2 on his own.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Nvis

I can already hear Beerus calling foul after seeing those Potara rings.

I really can't see how they'll explain this away without the two of them being disqualified for using items. Those were strictly prohibited.

Originally Posted by Mister Twit

All the same a good episode, though. Is this really the first time there's been a straight canon SSJ2 battle? You'd think it would have happened before but iirc Goku died before he could spar with Vegeta or Gohan at SSJ2 level.

Goku vs Majin Vegeta. No one witnessed it except Babidi and Dabura though.

Originally Posted by Maverick

Yep, was about to point that out, though, Vegeta cheated a little by being Majin.

I seem to recall it was implied/said somewhere that he had already unlocked it, but realized that Goku had already surpassed him with his quick glimpse of Goku's SSJ2 form against Yakon. And already having been surpassed is why he accepted the Majin power up.

I feel like the implication was when Gohan was fighting Dabura, and Vegeta implied he had already surpassed Gohan's power level from when he fought Cell (and thus why he was mad at Gohan for being even weaker than he was back then). But it's been a long time since I looked into that sort of stuff so my memory may be foggy.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot

When Goku fought Yakon he briefly transformed into SS2. In this exact moment, Vegeta realized he couldn't compete with Goku. It gets worse when Vegeta realized that Goku had another Super Saiyan transformation. However, at least according to the video games, against the the little Majin Buu, Vegeta went SS2 on his own.

Vegeta going SSJ2 against Kid Buu is in the manga.

It's an old debate, but I always thought Vegeta already had SSJ2 before going Majin. In fact, Vegeta's inner thoughts regarding Goku going SSJ2 against Yakon implied he could do it too. There were other hints like him being unimpressed with Gohan's SSJ2 during the tournament or calling Dabura a small fry.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by GDB

I feel like the implication was when Gohan was fighting Dabura, and Vegeta implied he had already surpassed Gohan's power level from when he fought Cell (and thus why he was mad at Gohan for being even weaker than he was back then). But it's been a long time since I looked into that sort of stuff so my memory may be foggy.

It's just never really clarified. I've re-read the manga enough times to basically remember it by heart, but they just don't dwell on it. In fact, the very concept of "Super Saiyan 2" is never outlined so clearly until the scene in which Goku goes SSJ3 against Buu. It's a vague continuum until then of "super saiyans that have gone beyond the limit"; in a sense the Ultra Super Saiyan Vegeta and Trunks did against Semi-Perfect Cell fell on that line too. Once the battle against Kid Buu rolls around, Vegeta has clearly achieved SSJ2, but at that time you have to remember that:

1) he's been Majin already, so his body may just have muscle memory of what he needed to do. After all, usually, once a transformation is unlocked, by whatever means, it only gets easier;
2) Vegeta is dead for half the fight, and being dead, has access to more ki and stamina. So he may be able to go a bit beyond his normal limits. I imagine being dead for them means always being at their absolute peak condition without physical impediments. When he's resurrected he finds himself out of wind, can't transform and is beaten up quite badly.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326

It's just never really clarified. I've re-read the manga enough times to basically remember it by heart, but they just don't dwell on it. In fact, the very concept of "Super Saiyan 2" is never outlined so clearly until the scene in which Goku goes SSJ3 against Buu. It's a vague continuum until then of "super saiyans that have gone beyond the limit"; in a sense the Ultra Super Saiyan Vegeta and Trunks did against Semi-Perfect Cell fell on that line too. Once the battle against Kid Buu rolls around, Vegeta has clearly achieved SSJ2, but at that time you have to remember that:

1) he's been Majin already, so his body may just have muscle memory of what he needed to do. After all, usually, once a transformation is unlocked, by whatever means, it only gets easier;
2) Vegeta is dead for half the fight, and being dead, has access to more ki and stamina. So he may be able to go a bit beyond his normal limits. I imagine being dead for them means always being at their absolute peak condition without physical impediments. When he's resurrected he finds himself out of wind, can't transform and is beaten up quite badly.

Firstly, at the start of the arc, Vegeta was not at Gohan's level as he can't go SSJ2 yet. It was after seeing Goku's fight and realised he can go SSJ2, thats why he decide to let Babbidi control him. In order to break his limit.
2) behind death may give u more 'stamina' but not Ki. Its not clealy explain wat SSJ3 burn which is unlimited when ur dead. Rem when Goku uses SSJ3 his time on earth was cut too. Just like SSB Vegito.

[vietthai96]

Well fusion is good but if fused warrior get knock out of the ring it will qualified as two so........

I think SSJ3 burn too much Ki that why Goku time on Earth being cut short, because he have no
real body because he is dead so SSJ3 burn his Ki that subtain his soul on Earth instead. After he get his body SSJ3 burn stamina instead =.=

[Ramero]

I hope that we will get Vegito + Ultra Instinct for this and maybe we could get Vegito without Potarra.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by azenable

Firstly, at the start of the arc, Vegeta was not at Gohan's level as he can't go SSJ2 yet. It was after seeing Goku's fight and realised he can go SSJ2, thats why he decide to let Babbidi control him. In order to break his limit.

Not too sure about that. Normally in DBZ-verse, if one can "see" how weak the other one is, the former one must be the stronger one . Unless Vegeta was bluffing and he actually couldn't catch how fast Gohan and Dabura were moving..but we are really stretching things in here. I would give Vegeta the benefit of the doubt there, assuming he was already at ss2, but he knew he was nowhere like goku's ss2 level

[Kazu-kun]

Vegita let himself be controlled in order to get to ss2. He couldn't do it on his own.

That been said, Gohan's ss2 back then was shit because he wasn't training properly. On the other hand, Vegita was constantly training, so I think his ss1 was stronger than Gohan's ss2. That's why he was sure he could kick Dabura's ass easily.

[xeviouses]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Vegita let himself be controlled in order to get to ss2. He couldn't do it on his own.

That been said, Gohan's ss2 back then was shit because he wasn't training properly. On the other hand, Vegita was constantly training, so I think his ss1 was stronger than Gohan's ss2. That's why he was sure he could kick Dabura's ass easily.

Which falls in line with what Toriyama said: SSJ2 and SSJ3 are just powered up versions of SSJ, supposedly it's possible to train SSJ up to match the powered up versions without the drawbacks.

And we're kinda seeing it in SSJ Blue.

So Vegeta being stronger than SSj2 Gohan can be possible.

[B214]

I don't remember where but i think it was mentioned before in some guide book that Vegeta unlocked the Super Saiyan 2 even before he became Majin Vegeta. He just wasn't at Goku's level and used Babidi's power to increase his power to Goku's level.