High School DxD Light Novel - Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings

[Krudelu]

@Lucidrago & @DragonOsman
I posted it up in my wall of text post. It's part of me proving that DxD's lightning is comparable to real lightning. It's in volume 8 life 2, which basically takes place in between volumes 2-3. While it may be a side story, nothing at those points contradict it.

@Lucidrago And if you want to say that it's an outlier, you're going to have to provide evidence (LN quotes) that it's an outlier at least for that specific point of the series (at least before volume 5 and considering base Issei).

And your response overall just tells me that you didn't reread the post when I already told you that I already addressed the feat, which should tell you what I think about the feat in DxD's standards. Come back again when you read the entire post.

@Dragonosman here you go

Spoiler for Volume 10 Life 3:

[…….I know. I've already been told about Crocell’s Sacred Gear ability from Governor-Azazel. –Also an ability which uses sight has a weakness which is very easy to exploit!]

Even though she’s under the gravity, Rossweisse-san activates a magic-circle with her trembling hands!

FLASH! A flash lightens the surroundings.

[You are too naïve, sister! Mirror!]

A mirror appears from the magic-circle which is in Crocell’s hand, and he tries to block the light.

[Due to the characteristics of my ability, I have powers to cover those weaknesses. That’s why I have summoned a mirror.]

Crocell smirks.

Rossweisse-san’s attack was seen through…?

No, that isn’t it! Rossweisse-san made the magic-circle under her foot glow stronger! The flash which was reflected by the mirror…..hits Balam! That instant, Rossweisse-san and Balam glowed, and the light envelops the surroundings. When the light stopped, the one under Crocell’s gravity was Balam! Rossweisse-san was at Balam’s location now instead!

“Terrific! A magic to swap each others' locations! Having the mirror reflect that magic was just a requirement for its activation! It’s a swap done where she already read through the opponents next step!”

Another reason why I'm still holding to this is because there's multiple ways to interpret this. Also, need more confirmation on this. I only said that it still holds water that is if this feat is a legit reacting to light feat.

[KnightShade]

^ Yeah dont hold your breath.

Sairourge being able to react to Dulios lightning is one thing(which he can use in a continous bombardment like he did in v24) but I'm more concerned with Dulios' BB, which has feats of withstanding blows from partial deification/cardinal crimson. Dulio can take a punch.

While you could argue that sairourge has the edge in physical power, the fight comes down to whether or not it's a big enough edge to over come zenith tempest.

[Krudelu]

^The debate went from Sairaorg vs Dulio to debate towards the lightning timing feat since someone is questioning the said feat when all I did is prove why Sairaorg dodging lightning makes sense when I was covering specific aspects though it still doesn't decide the outcome.

But yeah, not holding my breath on this one

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Krudelu

Okay, here are some information to provide at the moment for the debate

Sairaorg's Touki
Regarding if Sairaorg's Touki can neutralize the damage from holy water, I'm not sure

However, back in Volume 10, he was able to fend off Xenovia's holy wave with his Touki and came out of it unscratched.

Volume 10 Life 4


While this may not be from a holy water, this is a feat tanking a holy wave attack from Durandal (tho not as strong as the current one) so you guys might want to take this into account.



Dulio's Thunderclouds that shoots lightning
At this point, characters that can keep up with Issei should not have trouble being able to reacting to lightning. This means that Sairaorg, who is one of the characters that can keep up with Issei and other characters that can keep up with lightning timers, should be able to react to lightning in one way or another.

So how to prove that Sairaorg have the capability to do so?
A: Powerscale

While this particular Issei feat may have been talked about multiple times, I might as well bring it over for the sake of evidence and powerscaling purposes.

For lightning reaction feat, even base Issei back at volume 9 was already capable of reacting to lightning (even though barely)

Volume 9 Life 2


While Issei may not have completely dodged it but he was still able to avoid complete direct hit from the lightning. And it's feasible to consider that the lightning that Rossweisse shot has the speed of lightning given that it have the same properties as real lightning.

How is this feat relevant?
A: Base Sairaorg > Base Issei

Not only that, he was able to fight on par with Triana Issei (pre-CCQ)


Also, he was able to keep up with Kiba and Xenovia

Volume 10 Life 4


For the record, Kiba is faster than Issei, who have the ability to react to lightning.


For the sake of proving that Kiba should be at least in the same ballpark as lightning timers, here's a proof of one of his earlier opponents, Furcas, being able to react to lighning.

Volume 10 life 3




To talk about his speed while in Balance Breaker

Now let's move on to another relevant speed feat: Triana Issei was able to blitz Kushida Abbadon

First, let's look at Akeno VS Kushida. Kusida was able to react to Akeno's multiple lightning bolts by being able to open up more Holes on time

Volume 10 life 4


Now let's look at Issei VS Kushida

Volume 10 Pawn

Remember that the narrator here is Rias and even Rias herself was unable to see Issei's blitz when she was watching the match!! And let's not forget that she can also keep up with Akeno's lightning.

Now to CCQ Issei VS BB Sairaorg


Sairaorg was able to keep up with CCQ Issei that used Star Sonic Booster, which is potentially more superior to his Knight Triana.

Conclusion
Despite using evidences from earlier volumes, Sairaorg in base should be able to react to lightning in one way or another especially in Balance Breaker given how he was able to act against the same people who kept up with other lightning timers


Anyway, this is it for some information provided for now. For now, I tackled Sairaorg's Touki and Sairaorg potentially dealing with Dulio's thunderclouds. Will provide more on other aspects when I can.

Though I'll provide information little by little for this debate. After all, collecting information is important to determine the matchup.


@Femt0 No one wins due to their abilities being focused more on support

There's your post. Why would it matter that Sairaorg is able to react to lightning? Did you think it was debatable that he could? Is shooting lightning faster than firing off any other attack? Was anyone questioning whether Sairaorg had the ability to react to attacks which is a basic thing for any combatant? That's why people aim for openings and blind spots. It's just not a matter of dodging someone's attack because anyone can do that. You tried to use the lightning of Zenith Tempest and the fact that Sairaorg reacting to it as a marketable feat. And then people use the speed of lightning hoping that it makes their point sound legitimate. When it really doesn't because of the nature of this series. You were basically saying that Sairaorg can react to attacks which isn't that impressive for someone who's a combatant.

Dulio has the advantage in long-range and AOE attacks. And Dulio has the higher-ranked Longinus. That's really not as easy a match for Sairaorg. And Dulio's an angel which would make him more durable than a human like Cao Cao.

I have no idea what that was in Volume 23. How was that Dulio's BB considering he didn't use Zenith Tempest at all? Power of light? That's something that every angel has. Just tossing aside his Longinus that can kill gods and going into a melee battle just kind of shows that Ishibumi doesn't know what he's doing sometimes. Ishibumi probably can't come up with a good fight with Issei where Issei's opponent isn't a close combat fighter.

[DragonOsman]

You keep ignoring the main reason why Krudelu brought up that feat and even the part where he explained the impressiveness of the feat. Try again after you've read those things.

@Darksider: Yeah, I might be remembering wrong about the Sitri peerage. And yeah, BorN isn't really canon. But Azazel used a Fafnir Artificial Sacred Gear in the LNs as well and he used its Balance Breaker (I'll have to reread to see if it mentions or shows its ability).

@Krudelu: For Volume 8 Life.2, are you talking about the part where Ise was hit by lightning from Rasse? If so, does that count? Ise didn't even try to dodge that since he was just standing there and may have been caught off-guard since he couldn't have expected Rasse to do that.

[Lucidrago]

Why is the feat so impressive considering that nothing about the speed of lightning was implied when said characters reacted to it and nothing proves it's more difficult to react to than any other attack? I can say the same about any other attack because nothing proves that those attacks aren't as fast as lightning. Becomes kind of hard to use that as a feat.

But you guys keep trying to paint it as a feat and really keep ignoring everything I say. It was never a debatable topic that even needed to be brought up. We know that Sairaorg can react and dodge attacks.

And now I don't know how lightning works apparently.

[DragonOsman]

Since when does talking about the impressiveness of a feat absolutely have to mean the person is saying it's impressive? Did you read Krudelu's post where he talked about it? And yeah, you can react to and dodge lightning attacks like any other attack, it still requires a certain level of reaction and movement speed to do so because the speed of lightning created from Demonic Power or magic in DxD is the same as that of real lightning.

[vietthai96]

UHHHH You can google search about:"how lighting work" Lucid

Well in order to know if a lighting in fiction fantasy story have the same speed as real lighting, we need feats and calculation

[DragonOsman]

He knows how it works. He was being sarcastic.

[Darksider555]

Are the Sacred Beasts of the Five Principal Clans actual beasts that are handed down though the generation or are they indpendent avatar type Sacred Gears? There was a contradiction in volume 23 so I want to see if I misread it.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Darksider555

Are the Sacred Beasts of the Five Principal Clans actual beasts that are handed down though the generation or are they indpendent avatar type Sacred Gears? There was a contradiction in volume 23 so I want to see if I misread it.

When I glanced at your post at first I thought it said 'Sacred Breasts.'

[Darksider555]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

When I glanced at your post at first I thought it said 'Sacred Breasts.'

Isn't that what the Heavenly Breasts are?

I wonder if the possessors of the Sacred Beasts have techniques like Nakiri where they transform into a humanoid version of their beast?

[Lucidrago]

(Imagine Suzaku growing wings and turning into a giant fiery bird)

No thank you.

They basically summon their Sacred Beasts and control them.

[Darksider555]

I don't know it could be pretty hot.

Get it?! Hot!

I'll see myself out...

[aw454wtr]

Rather than suzaku, makes more sense if ravel can transform herself to a giant fire bird (or giant yakitori)

[Lucidrago]

(Bans @Darksider from High School DxD forums for life.)

While she most likely can in the case of coating herself in fire in the shape of a Yaki- I mean bird.

Ishibumi really only focuses on Issei, Asia, Xenovia, and Kiba advancing and getting stronger and are really the only ones who get to show off. While Casper and Koneko are late bloomers. Rias POD and Akeno's Holy Lightning just look less impressive every volume. Because you know.....Sacred Gears. Even when they got power-ups it kind of didn't matter. Extinguish Star. Long ass charging time and very slow-moving. Effective in team battles but not so much in one-on-one. Then someone at Strada's level or higher could most likely block it. And it completely exhausts Rias. Crimson Extinct Dragonar? Can't use it without Issei. Invade the Princess (okay that just sounds sexual)? Can't use it without Gasper. Rias is screwed if she gets into a one-on-one. Akeno only has her Holy Lightning Dragons.

The only way you're getting much stronger in this series in such a short time is through an explosive power-up, a new weapon, or just with assist from a Sacred Gear.

Ishibumi thinks Rossweisse and Ravel are fine probably. Ravel is a cute little ruthless birdy-chan. And Rossweisse's a 100-yen Valkyrie but she's worth a million yen in my opinion.

He doesn't know what to do with Irina.

And if I said what Rias' and Akeno's main purpose in this series was then all hell will break loose on this forum.

[Krudelu]

@Lucidrago I don't know why you're looking at the quote where I'm proving why Sairaorg dodging lightning make sense when the wall of text I'm having you look at is this post, which is post #3531

Read posts carefully regardless of whether it's a wall of text or not. Also read the entire post whether it's a response to you or not since part of the post may address your point.

And when I talked about feats, I look at it at multiple angles. Not just in within the series standards.

And there's a reason why I did prove Sairaorg dodging lightning make sense in full details even though he didn't show it. You can keep saying that reacting to lightning feats in DxD is common so certain character should be able to do so but if you're not providing proof, to people that may not know whether they are part of this forum or a guest, that claim alone without providing proof would only sound like bullshit and wank.

With proof, people won't easily try to question the claim and it will make the claim more believable

And feats (in vs debate terms) are actions performed by various characters that are used to show their power. It doesn't matter if it's within the series' standards or not.

Try again after you read the post


@DragonOsman Ok, let's take a look at the entire quote

Volume 8 Life 2

I wasn’t going to move even an inch, and I heard something flying this way. When I looked…..there was a blue-scaled baby dragon floating in the air. Sprite Dragon. When on earth did it come here?

BUZZ BUZZ

A blue lightning starts running through the baby dragon’s body.

…….Eh? Don’t tell me that its…….

SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK SHOCK

Without any time to dodge it, strong electric voltage runs through my body!

Aggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggh!!


……..My whole body is paralysed….. If this was a cartoon, I’m positive that my skeleton would have showed up…….

“U-Umm, Ise-san…..? Are you okay?”

……Asia, whom I was hugging, seems okay…. What the fuck……

“Sprite Dragon only gives electric damage to those who it acknowledges as its enemies. So it must have thought that the girl isn’t its enemy.”

Satooji-san who is burnt black beside me explains it to me. You also received quite a bit of damage from it! Wait, from the explanation you just gave me then, its certain that it sees me and you as its enemies! Kiba was also a bit burnt. He’s putting on a smile but I can sense that he wants to kill that dragon.

1. There's already an indicator that the attack might be coming at him

2. He wasn't able to describe how lightning is coming at him unlike volume 9. Instead, the attack didn't gave him time to dodge indicating that his reaction speed at that point isn't as good as it is now. If lightning is just as easy as Lucidrago make it sound like, Issei at this point should still not have difficulty reacting to it given that he should be able to see how the attack is coming to him. But given the quote, this proves that Issei doesn't have the speed to do so at that point.

3. There's no suggestion at that point of that series that indicates that it's an outlier

So yeah, this scene still holds water until at least volume 5 post training (or volume 9 at max).v

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Funny thing is that in the same day I posted the wall of text to address someone's multiple claims, I'm supposed to talk about Dulio's speed next to determine if the match is going to be a blitz or not and then after that advance on to the next aspect to talk about.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally Posted by vietthai96

Well in order to know if a lighting in fiction fantasy story have the same speed as real lighting, we need feats and calculation

I already covered what indicates that it's comparable to real lightning and I already provided the numbers regarding how fast is lightning with source.

Though it may be that you're being sarcastic on this one as well

[Darksider555]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

(Bans @Darksider from High School DxD forums for life.)

While she most likely can in the case of coating herself in fire in the shape of a Yaki- I mean bird.

Ishibumi really only focuses on Issei, Asia, Xenovia, and Kiba advancing and getting stronger and are really the only ones who get to show off. While Casper and Koneko are late bloomers. Rias POD and Akeno's Holy Lightning just look less impressive every volume. Because you know.....Sacred Gears. Even when they got power-ups it kind of didn't matter. Extinguish Star. Long ass charging time and very slow-moving. Effective in team battles but not so much in one-on-one. Then someone at Strada's level or higher could most likely block it. And it completely exhausts Rias. Crimson Extinct Dragonar? Can't use it without Issei. Invade the Princess (okay that just sounds sexual)? Can't use it without Gasper. Rias is screwed if she gets into a one-on-one. Akeno only has her Holy Lightning Dragons.

The only way you're getting much stronger in this series in such a short time is through an explosive power-up, a new weapon, or just with assist from a Sacred Gear.

Ishibumi thinks Rossweisse and Ravel are fine probably. Ravel is a cute little ruthless birdy-chan. And Rossweisse's a 100-yen Valkyrie but she's worth a million yen in my opinion.

He doesn't know what to do with Irina.

And if I said what Rias' and Akeno's main purpose in this series was then all hell will break loose on this forum.

Sacred Gears have a better scale rate than demonic powers. Issei & Kiba started of as the weaker members of Rias's peerage but when they reached Balance Breaker, they began outpacing the rest. Same with Gasper & Asia. While Rias & Akeno haven't gotten any weaker, their growth rate is slower than Issei's & Kiba's.

Rias's problem as King is that she is too much of a glass cannon, same with Akeno. While both of them possess great offensive power, their defence is lacking.

Rossweisse has her [Rook] defensive barrier & her sealing techniques which make her formidable. Not to mention her general utility in Rating games & battlegrounds.

Ravel has good attack power with her Phoenix flames & her immortality makes her almost impossible to get rid of. She just have to increase her demonic power.

Xenovia has the most power ups besides Issei & Kiba. If she can increase her techiniques & unleash more of her holy swords aura, she could be one of the more powerful members of the Gremory Household.

Irina is always behind in terms of weapons. While we have seen her fight, she didn't display any unique abilities besides being a high level Angel. Hopefully she gets more focus.

Koneko has a lot of potential as a nekomata if Kuroka's abilities are any indication & Gasper has a Demon God inside him.

[Lucidrago]

Their problem is not being glass cannons. A glass cannon is something that has high power output but really can't handle it like Issei in DxD G at first. A glass cannon will shatter just from the high output.

Everyone without armor is basically a glass cannon in this series. Going by your definition.

Nothing proves they are glass cannons. They just don't get to show off much. They don't have some crazy defense but that doesn't make them glass cannons.

Would you call Strada a glass cannon? How about Cao Cao? They're merely humans who will not fare well if they take a powerful attack to their bodies directly and they have nothing that can increase their defense like Nero's Sacred Gear or armor. They largely have to rely on their OP weapons to block attacks or either avoid them. Rias and Akeno would have more durability than those two due to being devils.

[KnightShade]

Cao cao is definitely a glass cannon lol wut. He even says he’ll die from attacks like isseis and valis if he takes them head on.

A glass cannon is simply one with high offense but low defense. No one said anything about people with no armors being glass cannons so stop strawmaning. Rias having more durability than a human doesnt make her any less of glass cannon. Her defense is low relative to most named characters.