Index Novel Sales Figures and Discussion

[LG-MAX 2.o]

ndex III will only serve to increase Railgun sales, Mikoto is all that matters to investors, this is just common sense, why do you think it took Index so much to win a new season?

The series was hyper, DVD / BD sold super well, related goods too, Kamachi at that time was considered a talented writing (today is considered mediocre by many people), the book sold more than 150,000 units by volume, but even so nothing was announced, the reason?

They probably did not want to invest in something that Mikoto did not come up with often. But now with sales falling to every volume, negative reviews increasing, that was the last card used. Let's hope it all works out.

[KiharaRonin]

A lot of what is stated in the post above this is absolute BS!

[julioalqae]

Originally Posted by KiharaRonin

A lot of what is stated in the post above this is absolute BS!

I just stop take lg max 2.0 spitefullness and grudge to this series (and kamachi in general) seriously a long time ago, i knew you want this series to fail..,we already get it so stop that bs.

[Natsurin]

"This is just common sense", says the one who completely stopped replying once I called out to his bullshit. Just because you're saying it again elsewhere doesn't make it any more valid, you know?

[LG-MAX 2.o]

I do not understand the hostility, I expressed my opinion and based on facts that I saw, why not try to counteract with arguments that deny what I said without having to offend? All this "aiaiaia, he is hater, baka baka baka".

It seems childlike and counterproductive.

[KiharaRonin]

It is your opinion, all of it was. You have the right to express it as we all do, but these "facts" you saw (minus the sales being less, though you exaggerated) are also opinions. You can express them but not as facts.
It'd be like if I said "Index will die at the end of the series" (not even my opinion just an example, so pretend it is) and acted as though this was a fact. Its not, its an opinion.

[julioalqae]

No..., its not you being hater or whats not, no one called you that .. many of us knew you used to love this series and kind of burn out along the way and somehow change to hostility..thats fine thats your choice, the spitefullness wasnt as bad as the first time you did it. In time you use more "civilized" wording. The problem is you constantly do this with your say "opinions" as a exaggerated fact in different time and different thread to prove the your ego narrative of "looks i am right!! This series will be doomed" over and over agains if you have a chance. We get it...so the bs "opinion as fact" that you spread out constantly got old fast. we already aware the sales of ln has been going down, but your "opinion" along this index 3 as a fact is bs.

[KiharaRonin]

The sales dip isn't even rmthat bad to be honest.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by KiharaRonin

It is your opinion, all of it was. You have the right to express it as we all do, but these "facts" you saw (minus the sales being less, though you exaggerated) are also opinions. You can express them but not as facts.
It'd be like if I said "Index will die at the end of the series" (not even my opinion just an example, so pretend it is) and acted as though this was a fact. Its not, its an opinion.

Your example is not an opinion though. It's a prediction. But a prediction is also not a fact.

Also it's completely off. What LG-MAX 2.o is actually doing is a "psycho-analysis from the bench" for the author, editor and investors. And that is indeed an opinion, which should not be mislabeled as "fact".

I personally don't put any stock on any such "psycho-analysis from the bench", escpacially not if the one doing it doesn't know the target of the analysis in person.

Moreover we will NEVER know the correct answer. Unless Miki or any of the others will come out saying "this is what I was thinking the whole time", it will remain as opinion/speculation.

[KiharaRonin]

Wow, thanks for the brilliant corrections!

[dniv]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

ndex III will only serve to increase Railgun sales, Mikoto is all that matters to investors, this is just common sense, why do you think it took Index so much to win a new season?

The series was hyper, DVD / BD sold super well, related goods too, Kamachi at that time was considered a talented writing (today is considered mediocre by many people), the book sold more than 150,000 units by volume, but even so nothing was announced, the reason?

They probably did not want to invest in something that Mikoto did not come up with often. But now with sales falling to every volume, negative reviews increasing, that was the last card used. Let's hope it all works out.

Out of curiosity, what evidence do you have for this: "Kamachi at that time was considered a talented writing (today is considered mediocre by many people)" (the part in parentheses)?

At the very least, the people who prefer OT to NT or who don't like the new developments probably dislike the amount of extra abstraction that the series has acquired since the beginning of NT plus the increase in sandboxiness. It's fair since it's a preference. I prefer NT, of course, and disagree with the opinion that OT is better. But in what capacity do you think people think Kamachi is considered to be a mediocre writer? I don't think he's mediocre at all. He plans extremely complex situations that span many individual books and arcs and weaves them all together pretty masterfully. Sure, he has certain weaknesses in how he handles certain types of characters or situations, and he tends to use metaphors in a very abstract way that may not be everyone's preference, but I'd argue that he has his own style that allows him to express what he wants to say perfectly capably even if it limits him in other ways. So why do you think that he's worse, what is it in particular that you dislike about it? I'm just curious.

[LG-MAX 2.o]

Originally Posted by dniv

Out of curiosity, what evidence do you have for this: "Kamachi at that time was considered a talented writing (today is considered mediocre by many people)" (the part in parentheses)?

At the very least, the people who prefer OT to NT or who don't like the new developments probably dislike the amount of extra abstraction that the series has acquired since the beginning of NT plus the increase in sandboxiness. It's fair since it's a preference. I prefer NT, of course, and disagree with the opinion that OT is better. But in what capacity do you think people think Kamachi is considered to be a mediocre writer? I don't think he's mediocre at all. He plans extremely complex situations that span many individual books and arcs and weaves them all together pretty masterfully. Sure, he has certain weaknesses in how he handles certain types of characters or situations, and he tends to use metaphors in a very abstract way that may not be everyone's preference, but I'd argue that he has his own style that allows him to express what he wants to say perfectly capably even if it limits him in other ways. So why do you think that he's worse, what is it in particular that you dislike about it? I'm just curious.

The big drop in sales, the various negative reviews on different websites and the fact that in the past right here on this forum there were several people who stopped commenting do not serve as a reference to what I said before?

Of course, you may like the NT much more than OT, just as an American can think of the USA as the best country in the world, but when you use a parameter to measure the quality of something that in the case of a country would be the Human Development Index and see the numbers, you think opinion and fact are different things. I'll give you an example.

Opinion - "I regret having started reading Index for the crap this series has become."

or "You find the series incredible".

Fact - Sales decrease with each volume, if they decrease is because people do not buy anymore, whatever the reason, it is fact that the purchase of the volumes no longer satisfies so many people.

You can come with as many excuses as you want, such as: "The series has several volumes" or "it is sold on the same day as other popular series", "Who does not like it is hater or noob", etc.

But that does not change the fact of the popularity drop in research and sales.

[KiharaRonin]

What negative reviews!? Japanese fans seem to still love the series and the reviews seem good. Eastern fans are loving each new story development.
Some people stop posting on this forum because they go to other sites (people on the Discord used to talk about this a lot) or just stopped talking.
Yes there's the sales drop but its not that bad and as me, and many others have mentioned, there are many reasons for this and the series quality is probably only a small factor.
People keep hyping up how great Kamachi is and how he's coming up with crazy awesome ideas and creative writing. Yet, you're saying many see him as "mediocre", what!? That's bs, some may see that but that's a minority.
All of this is stuff you believe and are exaggerating and imposing onto a larger scale to make your opinion seem fact with little to no proof!

[BladeMancer]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

The big drop in sales, the various negative reviews on different websites and the fact that in the past right here on this forum there were several people who stopped commenting do not serve as a reference to what I said before?

Of course, you may like the NT much more than OT, just as an American can think of the USA as the best country in the world, but when you use a parameter to measure the quality of something that in the case of a country would be the Human Development Index and see the numbers, you think opinion and fact are different things. I'll give you an example.

Opinion - "I regret having started reading Index for the crap this series has become."

or "You find the series incredible".

Fact - Sales decrease with each volume, if they decrease is because people do not buy anymore, whatever the reason, it is fact that the purchase of the volumes no longer satisfies so many people.

You can come with as many excuses as you want, such as: "The series has several volumes" or "it is sold on the same day as other popular series", "Who does not like it is hater or noob", etc.

But that does not change the fact of the popularity drop in research and sales.

The only source you have on your claim is the decreasing volume sales. Nothing else, if anything if your opinion of a volume is swayed by the number of copies it sells you shouldn't post in To-aru threads at all. Many people rated NT 18 highly, but you hated it and I bet its precisely because of that sales excuse. Where are you getting negative reviews from also? Your ass? Or are you just attributing it to "muh sales are decreasing"?
Index is long, very long so not a lot of new readers can get into it. There was also the 10th anniversary HO fiasco which coincidentally coincided with the time the sales started dropping rapidly. There is also the fact that it does release on the same day as other popular novels, that divides attention between the two volumes and affect sales, this is standard business not a dumb excuse.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by LG-MAX 2.o

The big drop in sales, the various negative reviews on different websites and the fact that in the past right here on this forum there were several people who stopped commenting do not serve as a reference to what I said before?

Of course, you may like the NT much more than OT, just as an American can think of the USA as the best country in the world, but when you use a parameter to measure the quality of something that in the case of a country would be the Human Development Index and see the numbers, you think opinion and fact are different things. I'll give you an example.

Opinion - "I regret having started reading Index for the crap this series has become."

or "You find the series incredible".

Fact - Sales decrease with each volume, if they decrease is because people do not buy anymore, whatever the reason, it is fact that the purchase of the volumes no longer satisfies so many people.

You can come with as many excuses as you want, such as: "The series has several volumes" or "it is sold on the same day as other popular series", "Who does not like it is hater or noob", etc.

But that does not change the fact of the popularity drop in research and sales.

Fair enough. I disagree, but at the very least I understand your position. I think it's fairer to say that the writing style has become such that it appeals to fewer people, but that to the people it appeals to, it's even better than before. That's my take on it. After all, lots of amazing things aren't very popular, they satisfy the people who love that sort of thing most.

And you are right that people have stopped commenting over the years so it's clear that interest has dropped since the series went in directions that didn't appeal to everyone like some of the people only care about some of the characters and not the other ones so when their preferred characters got less focus they became discouraged. But in the end, that's just a matter of preference. I don't really think that says much about how good the series is... or rather I guess it does, but it's irrelevant. Since in the end, how good a series is, the only part of that which matters is how good it is for the person who you individually are, and how it affects you and how you enjoy it when you read it. Sure, it's nice when something is popular and makes more money and has more budget to do cool things and when you have more people to share your interests with, but I'd argue that in the end what matters most is that those of us who are really satisfied with the series as it is, get to enjoy it. I don't think it's perfect, but at the very least, I very much enjoy it as it is.

So I guess, my point is that the facts don't matter that much as long as the series can keep on going and does well enough to get its anime and to have the time and space to be developed all the way to its eventual conclusion. But your position makes sense. There's nothing wrong with criticizing something you don't like. But it's possible to not like something because of your own personal preferences and for that something to still be amazing to other people, and that's what primarily matters to those other people, I guess, is my point.

Edit: Also, I know you were throwing out a random example opinion, but I don't think America is the greatest country in the world, or anything even close to that

[KiharaRonin]

And again, the sales drop isn't that bad and it has reasons aside from quality which is again, most likely not a major reason.

[tsunade666]

going from 200+k to 50k is BAD. there are lots of reasons for the drop but it can't be denied that the series is in terrible decline.

but. pointing it again and again and just being bitter about it is just being silly. just learn to let it go and start reading other stories.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

going from 200+k to 50k is BAD. there are lots of reasons for the drop but it can't be denied that the series is in terrible decline.

but. pointing it again and again and just being bitter about it is just being silly. just learn to let it go and start reading other stories.

Terrible decline is a bit much. I think the quality has definitely gotten worse, but his ideas, characters, and situations have comparatively gotten better making up for the decline in writing quality imo. It's all about taste.

[Sacredus]

Sorry but no. Great ideas, characters and situations can't compensate bad writing. You can have good action book with meh characters, without any over top situations but you never get good book with just cool characters, over top actions and crazy ideas.

I dropped reading Index at 10 volume of NT. Story to this point was kinda meh (except 8 and 9 Vol's) and Touma is just... bad main character and I didn't enjoy reading story about him anymore. I though he will change after Othinus arc, but sadly not happened, and on top of that Othinus that quickly become my favorite female character in this series got reduced to 12 cm fairy joke.

[tsunade666]

Originally Posted by dniv

Terrible decline is a bit much. I think the quality has definitely gotten worse, but his ideas, characters, and situations have comparatively gotten better making up for the decline in writing quality imo. It's all about taste.

I'm talking about sales. this thread is about sales.

if you ask any sales analyst. having your sales goes down beyond 50% is bad. and it keeps on decreasing. 200+ k to 50+k is BAD.

sales aside. 50k is still successful in terms of sales but ita not the supposedly level of where index is used to be. in general level of light novel, it sold many . but. it you accept that reasoning. it just meant that index level is just that level now.