Shin High School DxD Volume 2 Discussion

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

That's talking about DxD L. Vali literally calls it the armor that can defeat Gods when talking to Strada.



Issei didn't watch all of Vali's matches. For all we know that was the first time he saw Vali fight.



Issei says the same thing about Divine Dividing and it never costs him anything to actually use.



Vali was puking blood and bile through his mask and was hurled into the dirt. He takes so much damage he can't control JD and Bikou says he came to save Vali.



Vali would have had to use it to stand a chance, there's no indication from either one it would be decisive.

Vali never used DxD L in the tournament before facing Crom. His improvement in EJOD is just further proof that he can beat God class opponents in that form.

Considering Vali is Issei's strongest rival, why wouldn't he see Vali's past matches? He's seen Sona's matches, Rias, Cao Cao, Sairaorg but not Vali's? That doesn't make sense.

Considering even JD didn't consumes Vali's life force but DxD L did shows the cost of using the form.

Vali wasn't worried at all. Albion insisted he didn't need to use JD but Vali got too excited.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by XFire

That's talking about DxD L. Vali literally calls it the armor that can defeat Gods when talking to Strada.



Issei didn't watch all of Vali's matches. For all we know that was the first time he saw Vali fight.



Issei says the same thing about Divine Dividing and it never costs him anything to actually use.



Vali was puking blood and bile through his mask and was hurled into the dirt. He takes so much damage he can't control JD and Bikou says he came to save Vali.



Vali would have had to use it to stand a chance, there's no indication from either one it would be decisive.

EJOD can defeat gods. Vali said it in Volume 16 to Sun Wukong.

Seems pretty illogical to me that Issei wouldn't watch some of his main rival's matches. Doesn't mean he saw all of them but I doubt Vali's match against Rias was the first time he saw him fight in the tournament.

Issei only used Dividing Gear only twice after Volume 4. He used it in Volume 5 when fighting against Saji. And in Volume 6 when using Juggernaut Drive. Those are the only times he used Dividing Gear before he gained the Wyverns. It's not like he was using Dividing Gear all the time. And shaving off a little of his lifeforce would mean almost nothing at the moment when you can live thousands of years like Issei. So those few times he would use Dividing Gear would mean absolutely nothing at the moment.

Vali seemed to be fine. The reason why Albion didn't want him to go Juggernaut Drive was because of the possibility of Issei going Juggernaut Drive. And because Vali could only control Juggernaut Drive for a little while before the curse overtook him, it would be disastrous if Issei managed to awaken Juggernaut Drive.

Again stop twisting things in the story just to make a point.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Vali never used DxD L in the tournament before facing Crom. His improvement in EJOD is just further proof that he can beat God class opponents in that form.

Bull. He literally calls it the armor that can defeat gods, it's the armor referred to whenever it talks about him beating them, and Strada straight up styles over EJOD so unless you think the dude is HD class that falls apart quick.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Considering Vali is Issei's strongest rival, why wouldn't he see Vali's past matches? He's seen Sona's matches, Rias, Cao Cao, Sairaorg but not Vali's? That doesn't make sense.

Because he was busy? He never mentions seeing any of Vali's matches.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Considering even JD didn't consumes Vali's life force but DxD L did shows the cost of using the form.

Except it never has any negative effect on him. It's as damaging as DD is for Issei at most.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Vali wasn't worried at all. Albion insisted he didn't need to use JD but Vali got too excited.

Albion literally said Vali would lose control, and Vali's response was basically "YOLO"

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

EJOD can defeat gods. Vali said it in Volume 16 to Sun Wukong.

He says he can reach them, and then Wukong laughs in his face and says he can't beat any of them, which Vali acknowledges.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Seems pretty illogical to me that Issei wouldn't watch some of his main rival's matches. Doesn't mean he saw all of them but I doubt Vali's match against Rias was the first time he saw him fight in the tournament.

It's almost like Issei had his own stuff to take care of during the tournament.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Issei only used Dividing Gear only twice after Volume 4. He used it in Volume 5 when fighting against Saji. And in Volume 6 when using Juggernaut Drive. Those are the only times he used Dividing Gear before he gained the Wyverns. It's not like he was using Dividing Gear all the time. And shaving off a little of his lifeforce would mean almost nothing at the moment when you can live thousands of years like Issei. So those few times he would use Dividing Gear would mean absolutely nothing at the moment.

So you admit it's a negligible downside that doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. K.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Vali seemed to be fine. The reason why Albion didn't want him to go Juggernaut Drive was because of the possibility of Issei going Juggernaut Drive. And because Vali could only control Juggernaut Drive for a little while before the curse overtook him, it would be disastrous if Issei managed to awaken Juggernaut Drive.

No, Albion literally says Vali will be "at the mercy of his power". It had nothing to do with Issei, Vali was too banged up to control it.

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Again stop twisting things in the story just to make a point.

You saying that to anyone is the height of irony. The number of times you tried to twist Vali's failures and Issei's successes around has got to be in the triple digits by now.

[cyberdemon]

Interesting to see Akeno practicing to become the songstress character in Oppai Dragon when Issei just reincarnated an actual songstress. Interested to see where that could lead between Ingvild and her.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

Bull. He literally calls it the armor that can defeat gods, it's the armor referred to whenever it talks about him beating them, and Strada straight up styles over EJOD so unless you think the dude is HD class that falls apart quick.



Because he was busy? He never mentions seeing any of Vali's matches.



Except it never has any negative effect on him. It's as damaging as DD is for Issei at most.



Albion literally said Vali would lose control, and Vali's response was basically "YOLO"



He says he can reach them, and then Wukong laughs in his face and says he can't beat any of them, which Vali acknowledges.



It's almost like Issei had his own stuff to take care of during the tournament.



So you admit it's a negligible downside that doesn't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. K.



No, Albion literally says Vali will be "at the mercy of his power". It had nothing to do with Issei, Vali was too banged up to control it.



You saying that to anyone is the height of irony. The number of times you tried to twist Vali's failures and Issei's successes around has got to be in the triple digits by now.

EJOD is stated to reach God class while DxD L can beat them. It just means DxD L stronger than majority of gods. This doesn't mean EJOD can't beat gods either. Remember that God class has a broad scope. For example, Odin is stronger than Loki despite Odin not being in the top 10. Does this mean Loki is below God class? Of course not. Apollon is stronger than Artemis but Artemis is still God class. Strada is just stronger than the average God class.

He's too busy to see any of the matches of his biggest rival but not too busy to see the matches of his other rivals? That makes zero sense. If Kiba was able to see some of Vali's matches then obviously Issei would've seen some as well.

Losing his life force is an effect that doesn't just recover on it's own like stamina.

Albion said that because Vali was getting too excited. He obviously didn't need to use JD considering as soon as he left, the bracelet that Azazel gave Issei wore off.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

EJOD is stated to reach God class while DxD L can beat them. It just means DxD L stronger than majority of gods. This doesn't mean EJOD can't beat gods either. Remember that God class has a broad scope. For example, Odin is stronger than Loki despite Odin not being in the top 10. Does this mean Loki is below God class? Of course not. Apollon is stronger than Artemis but Artemis is still God class. Strada is just stronger than the average God class.

EJOD explicitly cannot defeat gods. Period. DxD is the only referred to as being able to do so.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

He's too busy to see any of the matches of his biggest rival but not too busy to see the matches of his other rivals? That makes zero sense. If Kiba was able to see some of Vali's matches then obviously Issei would've seen some as well.

No, he wouldn't. In the first place, burden of proof is on you to prove that he has seen any of these matches as you are the one making the claim that he has.

Second, your claim directly contradicts all the surrounding evidence like the way everyone refers to DxD and everyone's knowledge of its capabilities.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Losing his life force is an effect that doesn't just recover on it's own like stamina.

It's the same cost Issei pays for using DD, which has had such a major impact on him, right?

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Albion said that because Vali was getting too excited. He obviously didn't need to use JD considering as soon as he left, the bracelet that Azazel gave Issei wore off.

Albion said that Vali would be at the mercy of his power.

Not "this is unnecessary"

Not "he's almost out of power"

He said "you can't control it so stop"

End of story.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

EJOD explicitly cannot defeat gods. Period. DxD is the only referred to as being able to do so.



No, he wouldn't. In the first place, burden of proof is on you to prove that he has seen any of these matches as you are the one making the claim that he has.

Second, your claim directly contradicts all the surrounding evidence like the way everyone refers to DxD and everyone's knowledge of its capabilities.



It's the same cost Issei pays for using DD, which has had such a major impact on him, right?



Albion said that Vali would be at the mercy of his power.

Not "this is unnecessary"

Not "he's almost out of power"

He said "you can't control it so stop"

End of story.

Of course EJOD couldn't beat gods. At that point in time, Vali couldn't maintain his EJOD for long since it consumed too much of his stamina. This is something Sun Wukong explained to Vali. That's why I said the improments he made by volume 24 supports my argument. This is similar to how Issei couldn't fight God class opponents prior to volume 25 because of the 10 second time limit.

How does it contradicts anything? Just because they heard of DxD L doesn't mean they know It's capabilities. This is why Issei was surprised at how strong DxD L was when he first saw it. In Rias case, she was shocked when she sensed the enormous aura coming from Vali's form. Hearing about something and actually witnessing it are 2 different things.

You mean besides having Koneko restore his life force.

Albion said that because if Vali went JD then Issei might also go JD. Albion said so himself. Vol. 4:

"Albion, do you think he’s worthy enough to show the Hakuryuukou’s [Supremacy DragonJuggernaut Drive] if it’s the current Hyoudou Issei?”

[Vali, it’s not a good choice in this place. If you recklessly enter Juggernaut Drive, Ddraig’s curse might be removed.]

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Of course EJOD couldn't beat gods. At that point in time, Vali couldn't maintain his EJOD for long since it consumed too much of his stamina. This is something Sun Wukong explained to Vali. That's why I said the improments he made by volume 24 supports my argument. This is similar to how Issei couldn't fight God class opponents prior to volume 25 because of the 10 second time limit.

Except that no improvements have been mentioned, and DxD L is referred to as the armor that can defeat Gods. Meaning the far inferior EJOD cannot.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

How does it contradicts anything? Just because they heard of DxD L doesn't mean they know It's capabilities. This is why Issei was surprised at how strong DxD L was when he first saw it. In Rias case, she was shocked when she sensed the enormous aura coming from Vali's form. Hearing about something and actually witnessing it are 2 different things.

What?

I was saying that the fact that everyone else did know its capabilities contradicted your idea that this was the first time it was used.

Did you forget what side of the argument you were on?

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

You mean besides having Koneko restore his life force.

That was because of Juggernaut Drive reducing his life span to literally 1% of what it was.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Albion said that because if Vali went JD then Issei might also go JD. Albion said so himself. Vol. 4:

"Albion, do you think he’s worthy enough to show the Hakuryuukou’s [Supremacy DragonJuggernaut Drive] if it’s the current Hyoudou Issei?”

[Vali, it’s not a good choice in this place. If you recklessly enter Juggernaut Drive, Ddraig’s curse might be removed.]

Immediately followed by...

[Don't act rashly, Vali! Do you want to be at the mercy of my power!?]

Vali didn't have the strength to control JD anymore. In literally the same volume Albion nearly attacked Ddraig on instinct and now he's pulling back from the fight. He wouldn't do that if Vali could keep control.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

Except that no improvements have been mentioned, and DxD L is referred to as the armor that can defeat Gods. Meaning the far inferior EJOD cannot.



What?

I was saying that the fact that everyone else did know its capabilities contradicted your idea that this was the first time it was used.

Did you forget what side of the argument you were on?



That was because of Juggernaut Drive reducing his life span to literally 1% of what it was.



Immediately followed by...

[Don't act rashly, Vali! Do you want to be at the mercy of my power!?]

Vali didn't have the strength to control JD anymore. In literally the same volume Albion nearly attacked Ddraig on instinct and now he's pulling back from the fight. He wouldn't do that if Vali could keep control.

Improvements was actually shown in Volume 24. In the past he couldn't maintain EJOD for long because of stamina consumption but that problem is solved as shown when he fought Crom and Strada in EJOD without that issue anymore. Again, this is similar to the same problem Issei had with his 10 second time limit in P DxD.

No, they was aware that Vali had DxD L but they never saw it in action. Hence why Issei said in volume 24 that it was his first time seeing it and it surprised him at how powerful it was. Again, hearing about something and actually witnessing it are 2 different things.

Okay but he still survived it so according to you that shouldn't matter.

Albion said that because if Vali stated in JD too long than he would lose control.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Improvements was actually shown in Volume 24. In the past he couldn't maintain EJOD for long because of stamina consumption but that problem is solved as shown when he fought Crom and Strada in EJOD without that issue anymore. Again, this is similar to the same problem Issei had with his 10 second time limit in P DxD.

Yeah, no. EJOD was not active for a significant period of time before Strada swatted it, and it was useless against Crom. There's zero indication the problem has been solved in anyway, especially when it was present in his fight against Azi Dahaka earlier.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

No, they was aware that Vali had DxD L but they never saw it in action. Hence why Issei said in volume 24 that it was his first time seeing it and it surprised him at how powerful it was. Again, hearing about something and actually witnessing it are 2 different things.

Hey, look, more unsubstantiated claims that contradict the context and evidence of the actual scenario.

Vali's DxD armor is referred to as the armor that can defeat gods. EJOD is at least two classes beneath it, so that qualifier does not extend to it as well. There is at least one reference to Vali instantly overwhel.ing a God, so logically that can only be DxD.

EJOD was shown in the Azi fight to exhaust itself almost instantly when dealing with a single wave of attacks while Azi was holding back.

EJOD is unable to even phase Strada, who later has an extended 1 v 1 duel with Arthur, meaning either your scaling is off or both of them are above God class (lol)

Everyone in the tournament knows about DxD, down to the color of the armor. This includes Strada, who was in isolation before the tournament.There's zero reason for Vali to spread that information around, much less to other factions, so logically he was actually seen using it.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Okay but he still survived it so according to you that shouldn't matter.

No, it reduced his life span to a fraction after a single use, required constant medical treatment, and Issei never used the ability again.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Albion said that because if Vali stated in JD too long than he would lose control.

That's the base reality of him using JD, if that were why then Albion would never let him use it.

[amtro]

Still no preview for vol 3?

[Beelzebub sama]

Shin DxD volume 3 release date is postponed to Aug 20
(https://fantasiabunko.jp)

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

Yeah, no. EJOD was not active for a significant period of time before Strada swatted it, and it was useless against Crom. There's zero indication the problem has been solved in anyway, especially when it was present in his fight against Azi Dahaka earlier.



Hey, look, more unsubstantiated claims that contradict the context and evidence of the actual scenario.

Vali's DxD armor is referred to as the armor that can defeat gods. EJOD is at least two classes beneath it, so that qualifier does not extend to it as well. There is at least one reference to Vali instantly overwhel.ing a God, so logically that can only be DxD.

EJOD was shown in the Azi fight to exhaust itself almost instantly when dealing with a single wave of attacks while Azi was holding back.

EJOD is unable to even phase Strada, who later has an extended 1 v 1 duel with Arthur, meaning either your scaling is off or both of them are above God class (lol)

Everyone in the tournament knows about DxD, down to the color of the armor. This includes Strada, who was in isolation before the tournament.There's zero reason for Vali to spread that information around, much less to other factions, so logically he was actually seen using it.



No, it reduced his life span to a fraction after a single use, required constant medical treatment, and Issei never used the ability again.



That's the base reality of him using JD, if that were why then Albion would never let him use it.

There's a huge indication of It's improvement. In the past when he used EJOD against Pluto and Azi, he used "Compression Divider" once and suddenly reverted back to BxB exhuasted. Both times he became exhuasted after a few seconds in the seconds. Against Strada he was already in EJOD and didn't receive any damage. Against Crom, he used "Compression Divider" and wasn't exhausted in the slightest like he use to be.

You assume EJOD is 2 classes below DxD L despite statements and feats show otherwise? EJOD was specially stated to be God class. DxD L is Heavenly Dragon class based on showings. EJOD easily one shot Pluto who was an Ultimate Class Grim Reaper.

Strada being stronger than EJOD doesn't change the fact EJOD is God Class. Again, Strada is stronger than the average God. His fight against Arthur was just a contest of swordsman but Arthur wasn't getting any better than Vali.

Azi was holding back? You talk as if Azi launched a weak series of attacks which wasn't the case. He fired a large amount of forbidden spells and attacks at Vali at once as he was intending to kill Vali then and there but Vali negated it all.

The only person who actually seen Vali in that form before the tournament were members of his team but that doesn't mean no else was aware of it. Vali himself told Issei about his form in the recovery room in Volume 20 so again, Issei knew about it but he never saw it.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

There's a huge indication of It's improvement. In the past when he used EJOD against Pluto and Azi, he used "Compression Divider" once and suddenly reverted back to BxB exhuasted. Both times he became exhuasted after a few seconds in the seconds. Against Strada he was already in EJOD and didn't receive any damage. Against Crom, he used "Compression Divider" and wasn't exhausted in the slightest like he use to be.

Yeah, no. Strada literally bitchslapped him out of EJOD back into base.

And if sustaining a form longer is an indication of a power up then I guess DxD G is now stronger than Ophis

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

You assume EJOD is 2 classes below DxD L despite statements and feats show otherwise? EJOD was specially stated to be God class. DxD L is Heavenly Dragon class based on showings. EJOD easily one shot Pluto who was an Ultimate Class Grim Reaper.

Buddy, I'm being generous by only putting it two classes below. EJOD explicitly can't defeat a single God in combat, something Diehauser (who you insist is Maou-class) is explicitly capable of.

By "feats" Pluto is roughly equal to Azazel...who got his ass handed to him by Cao Cao.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Strada being stronger than EJOD doesn't change the fact EJOD is God Class. Again, Strada is stronger than the average God. His fight against Arthur was just a contest of swordsman but Arthur wasn't getting any better than Vali.

As repeatedly stated, EJOD is explicitly NOT God-class. Vali literally acknowledges that there's no way to defeat a God using that form.

Strada is not God-class, either, unless you have proof to the contrary. If he were he'd have wiped the floor with everyone besides DxD Vali instantly.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Azi was holding back? You talk as if Azi launched a weak series of attacks which wasn't the case. He fired a large amount of forbidden spells and attacks at Vali at once as he was intending to kill Vali then and there but Vali negated it all.

He fired a single wave of attacks and explicitly stopped to try and provoke more of a fight out of the exhausted Vali.

He literally floats over the kneeling Vali and dares him to use Reduce.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

The only person who actually seen Vali in that form before the tournament were members of his team but that doesn't mean no else was aware of it. Vali himself told Issei about his form in the recovery room in Volume 20 so again, Issei knew about it but he never saw it.

Vali didn't have it in Volume 20, what are you on about?

And telling his rival doesn't equal him running around screaming about his trump card to everyone. And yet everyone knows about it anyway, because he's blatantly used it before.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by XFire

Yeah, no. Strada literally bitchslapped him out of EJOD back into base.

And if sustaining a form longer is an indication of a power up then I guess DxD G is now stronger than Ophis



Buddy, I'm being generous by only putting it two classes below. EJOD explicitly can't defeat a single God in combat, something Diehauser (who you insist is Maou-class) is explicitly capable of.

By "feats" Pluto is roughly equal to Azazel...who got his ass handed to him by Cao Cao.



As repeatedly stated, EJOD is explicitly NOT God-class. Vali literally acknowledges that there's no way to defeat a God using that form.

Strada is not God-class, either, unless you have proof to the contrary. If he were he'd have wiped the floor with everyone besides DxD Vali instantly.



He fired a single wave of attacks and explicitly stopped to try and provoke more of a fight out of the exhausted Vali.

He literally floats over the kneeling Vali and dares him to use Reduce.



Vali didn't have it in Volume 20, what are you on about?

And telling his rival doesn't equal him running around screaming about his trump card to everyone. And yet everyone knows about it anyway, because he's blatantly used it before.

Okay but Vali wasn't hurt at all. You do know Vali can also instantly recreate his armor.

It's funny you say that considering I've seen you say that DxD L was only superior to P DxD because of the time limit despite statements flat out saying DxD L was superior overall. Now you say that the time limit isn't a factor of the same example? That's showing hypocrisy buddy.

Diehuaser was stated to be Maou class from multiple sources. God class is a broad scope. He likely just beat the non battle type gods who are generally the weaker bunch of gods.

And Cao Cao flat out admitted he couldn't beat EJOD Vali.

The form is stated to reach gods but It's not God class? That doesn't make sense unless the form itself had a massive drawback which at the time it did which was the heavy stamina consumption.

No, Azi fired a regular wave of attacks against BxB in the early stages of their fight. This was when Azi was just using basic magic attacks that Vali could deal with in BxB but got serious when he wanted to push Vali and launched a wave of powerful forbidden spells from every direction that would've disintegrated Vali if he didn't use EJOD.

Strada is not God class? You once argue that he was stronger than Apollon but now saying he's not God class? Also what do you mean he would wipe the floor with anyone except EJOD Vali? Are you forgetting Fenrir? He would lose to a serious Fenrir as well.

My mistake, I meant volume 21 when he and Vali was recovering and Ophis was with them. Also Issei could've told his friends about Vali's form. No one really seen Sairaorg's Breakdown of the Beast until DX4 but Issei still knew about it based off rumors.

[The Infinite Dream]

Having the power output to reach gods doesnt make the form god class. CxC also has the power output that can reach gods yet it isnt considered god class Longinous Smasher, Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames, Nyuutron Beam Cannon all of those skills can reach even gods.

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

Having the power output to reach gods doesnt make the form god class. CxC also has the power output that can reach gods yet it isnt considered god class Longinous Smasher, Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames, Nyuutron Beam Cannon all of those skills can reach even gods.

The thing is CxC was never stated to reach the power of gods. Issei even admitted that his CxC was a joke compared to Vali's EJOD. Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames is more of hax than raw power and Nyuutron Beam Canon is absorbing power from an outside source.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Okay but Vali wasn't hurt at all. You do know Vali can also instantly recreate his armor.

His armor was shattered by a single punch. He got smacked right out of it.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

It's funny you say that considering I've seen you say that DxD L was only superior to P DxD because of the time limit despite statements flat out saying DxD L was superior overall. Now you say that the time limit isn't a factor of the same example? That's showing hypocrisy buddy.

I do love it when someone tries to trap me with past arguments only to make a fool of themselves by forgetting the entire argument they're referencing.

The comparison between DXD G and L was based on all the various factors each one comes with. Sustainability is obviously one of them.

EJOD is not being compared to anything, it's being judged as fitting into a class. Or rather not doing so in this case. It flat out can't beat any of them at all, end of story.

A time limit is not a factor of whether you are in a class for the duration. But if you're comparing two combatants of roughly equal power, then the fact that one will only last three minutes is a factor.

This is not a complicated concept.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Diehuaser was stated to be Maou class from multiple sources. God class is a broad scope. He likely just beat the non battle type gods who are generally the weaker bunch of gods.

If you want to believe that, sure. Except that Vali explicitly can't beat any of them period with EJOD. So you know, nothing changes.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

And Cao Cao flat out admitted he couldn't beat EJOD Vali.

And? You're losing the thread here buddy.

Your statement was that Vali had a god-class feat because he beat Pluto. Who was equal to Azazel, who in turn is below Cao Cao. Congrats, you've successfully proved that EJOD is....Maou class at best.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

The form is stated to reach gods but It's not God class? That doesn't make sense unless the form itself had a massive drawback which at the time it did which was the heavy stamina consumption.

Issei was dealing attacks well out of his weight class from the beginning but was never considered at the class he could hurt, because he could only do so through major attacks and couldn't match someone at said class.

CxC Issei wasn't Maou-class until well after he beat Elucid. Being able to damage someone of a certain class doesn't put you in that class. If anything, the fact that Vali can't beat a God period with EJOD despite Issei being able to punch out of his weight class implies the gap is even bigger than I'm allowing for.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

No, Azi fired a regular wave of attacks against BxB in the early stages of their fight. This was when Azi was just using basic magic attacks that Vali could deal with in BxB but got serious when he wanted to push Vali and launched a wave of powerful forbidden spells from every direction that would've disintegrated Vali if he didn't use EJOD.

He fired a single round of attacks and then stopped and literally floated over Vali's head saying "Use Reduce I dare you"

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

Strada is not God class? You once argue that he was stronger than Apollon but now saying he's not God class? Also what do you mean he would wipe the floor with anyone except EJOD Vali? Are you forgetting Fenrir? He would lose to a serious Fenrir as well.

The hell are you on about? I argued he was a bigger threat (and I was right since he did better than Apollon did against Xenovia) not that he was above him in terms of class. As you seem to be forgetting, there's a difference.

Originally Posted by Blazor 98

My mistake, I meant volume 21 when he and Vali was recovering and Ophis was with them. Also Issei could've told his friends about Vali's form. No one really seen Sairaorg's Breakdown of the Beast until DX4 but Issei still knew about it based off rumors.

Hey look, more unsubstantiated theories pulled from nowhere to contradict the evidence. What's next, Issei put up posters all over the stadium saying "Vali has a super mode that can beat up gods"?

[Brawlre]

Reaching god is god class their essentially the same thing let’s be serious

[XFire]

Actually, forget it. Snapping at people joining the debate clearly means I've gotten too heated, so I'm stepping back from this one. We've gone in circles enough that neither is going to change the others opinion anyway.