(CR) Granbelm

[Uribatake]

Originally Posted by Faux Mecha

it was the ending credits then BAM! sh*t hits the fan at light speed.

That abruptly interrupted ED was the show's scariest moment yet. It made me think my video card had crapped out on me for a second.

[akumaten]

Spoiler for After credits:

Anna's star is going to be a black hole

Shit's gonna get real next episode

[Endscape]

That speech Shingetsu gave Anna was the most condescending thing I've seen in any anime to date.

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by Endscape

That speech Shingetsu gave Anna was the most condescending thing I've seen in any anime to date.

Because is was and show Shingetsu issue...she have her reasons to hate magic, anna is one but her aptituted...when the fight vs Mangetsu start...will be very intersting

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Endscape

That speech Shingetsu gave Anna was the most condescending thing I've seen in any anime to date.

I don't think it was condescending. It's the truth and why Shingetsu probably hates magic. Much like other series that deal with it, it is something that you're either inherently good at or bad and much of your potential determine from birth. Your hard capped and if you try achieve more beyond you limits you just end up harming yourself. Shingetsu had been helping Anna in the background because wanted to see her happy, but all did was enable towards a lie hurt her much more in the end. The big fear is that using the Fugo stone to acquire more power is gonna huge consequences on her.

That said, I don't think she intend to be condescending, but she need to be strict in her mind.

It's interesting if you contrast her situation with Mangetsu. Mangetsu was born with all the talent strength Anna sought but no matter how effort she puts she will never approach her level. Mangetsu like Shingetsu could probably easily perform that spell too. Magic in this series in is inherently unequal, relegated to chosen ones who themselves are further stratified by talent. When consider that in the context Shingetsu's relationship with Anna, if gives Shingetsu view and goal more weight. It's not just magic is dangerous it's society develops around that is the problem. At least Nene didn't hold her loss against Mangetsu thankfully.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Applehell

I don't think it was condescending. It's the truth and why Shingetsu probably hates magic.

Firstly, it was yet another lie from Shingetsu, since we know she isn't planning on carrying on Anna's dream, she's planning on destroying it.

Even if it was true, was that really the time to tell her?

While she's trying to wrap her head around the fact that she's wasted her life on an impossible dream and her family members were lying to her, you tell her that "Hey, all that pointless effort was useful to me, the person who has been lying to you all along, so you should just quit and protect the house full of people who also lied to you?"

Seriously?

[Applehell]

She planning on get rid of magic for precisely this kind of situation. What good has magic done for Anna other than make her feel lesser to her grandmother, mother and her foster sister because she untalented mage born in a mage family?

Even Shingetsu wins decides to bring magic back for Anna, leading to return of wars and such then what?

And people that lied to you didn't do out of maliciousness regardless of how badly they might gone about it. She needs to also recognize that we know Shingetsu feels plenty guilty about it. It doesn't justify what Anna did which is far worse. How she gonna explain that to her sister?

I can easily understand Shingetsu point of view here and including helping Anna as a child even in hindsight it was mistake but i get why she did it. I also get Anna's feelings, but she got take time and reflect here. Not put herself at risk. She has much more of her life ahead of her.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Applehell

She planning on get rid of magic for precisely this kind of situation. What good has magic done for Anna other than make her feel lesser to her grandmother, mother and her foster sister because she is a non-mage born in a mage family?

Magic didn't make Anna feel less than anyone, what made her feel less was the way her family treated her.

Even Shingetsu wins decides to bring magic back for Anna, leading to return of wars and such then what?

She doesn't need to do all that, but she also didn't need to lie to Anna again.

She needs to also recognize that we know Shingetsu feels plenty guilty about it.

Why on Earth should she care about Shingetsu's feelings at this point?

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Magic didn't make Anna feel less than anyone, what made her feel less was the way her family treated her.

Except nobody compared to her grandmother or mother she did. Because she looked up to them and wanted to be like them. Nobody in her family ever showed they would care about her less if she had magic or not. I mean Shingetsu was meant to be a stand-in for her as means she wouldn't have carry the family burden.

The mistake was enabling her, but Shingetsu did that out of good intentions. Shingetsu could have easily been snooty and treated her like crap becasue of her much worse at magic than her. She did the opposite and had unforeseen effects that she wouldn't understand child until much later as a adolescent.

Her mother however was against her participating in Granbelm from start it seems.

She doesn't need to do all that, but she also didn't need to lie to Anna again.

She really didn't lie to Anna again. Anna has no idea what Shingetsu even plans to do nor does she care. She doesn't want accept the reality of her situation and has go off the deep end. Hell the next fight isn't even gonna about her wining Granbelm anymore, but revenge.

Why on Earth should she care about Shingetsu's feelings at this point?

Because she cares about he no matter how much she hates her. You bet yourself she not gonna let her die something like that because she being self-destructive. Not if she can help it anyway.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Applehell

Except nobody compared to her grandmother or mother she did. Because she looked up to them and wanted to be like them. Nobody in her family ever showed they would care about her less if she had magic or not. I mean Shingetsu was meant to be a stand-in for her as means she wouldn't have carry the family burden.

I never said anyone compared her to her mother or grandmother. People compared her to Shingetsu.

Look at what happened this episode. Anna makes it to the final five of Granbelm and asks for a little more help to win. Not only does her mother refuse that(understandable enough given the situation) she can't even spare her a "Well done!".

She then tells her Shingetsu did better with less and that she can't possibly win. Great job sparing her feelings, Mom!

The mistake was enabling her, but Shingetsu did that out of good intentions. Shingetsu could have easily been snooty and treated her like crap becasue of her much worse at magic than her. She did the opposite and had unforeseen effects that she wouldn't understand child until much later as a adolescent.

Except Shingetsu was dismissive of her because of her poor magic. Every time she spoke to Anna before, it was the same refrain

She really didn't lie to Anna again. Anna has no idea what Shingetsu even plans to do nor does she care. She doesn't want accept the reality of her situation and has go off the deep end. Hell the next fight isn't even gonna about her wining Granbelm anymore, but revenge.

She did lie. I highly doubt Anna was working hard all this while so she could turn around and destroy magic. Anna not knowing what Shingetsu plans to do doesn't make it not a lie.

What is she planning on telling Anna if she did win and erase magic after that speech?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Endscape

She did lie. I highly doubt Anna was working hard all this while so she could turn around and destroy magic. Anna not knowing what Shingetsu plans to do doesn't make it not a lie.

What is she planning on telling Anna if she did win and erase magic after that speech?

Maybe she plans to short-circuit that problem by erasing the very memory of magic and everything related.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Look at what happened this episode. Anna makes it to the final five of Granbelm and asks for a little more help to win. Not only does her mother refuse that(understandable enough given the situation) she can't even spare her a "Well done!".

She then tells her Shingetsu did better with less and that she can't possibly win. Great job sparing her feelings, Mom!

I don't follow what you and Applehell are debating about, but just want to comment on that part.

yeah, the mom should have at least be happy her daughter managed to make it that far. Although to be fair to the mom.. we did not exactly know how Anna made it that far. She made it on her own strength, or maybe she made it that far only with the help of her two "apprentices"?

We can estimate power levels on the first few episodes. Kuon vs Anna, we see Kuon having an easy time hitting Aconite Gris multiple times with super speed + easily destroy the clones. Kuon vs. Suishou... Setsgets Baika get beaten up in two encounters.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Maybe she plans to short-circuit that problem by erasing the very memory of magic and everything related.

Sounds like something she'd do.

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

yeah, the mom should have at least be happy her daughter managed to make it that far. Although to be fair to the mom.. we did not exactly know how Anna made it that far. She made it on her own strength, or maybe she made it that far only with the help of her two "apprentices"?

No matter how it was done, she still managed to get that far. Her mother could have at least not thrown Shingetsu in her face.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Endscape

I never said anyone compared her to her mother or grandmother. People compared her to Shingetsu.

Looking at her flashbacks, I don't see that happening at all. In fact it seems like Shingetsu was playing the naive student while Anna was teaching her about magic. Anna didn't seem to have found about Shingetsu being much more talented than her until later. Shingetsu was never intended to became the head of the family, she was brought primarily to support Anna.

Look at what happened this episode. Anna makes it to the final five of Granbelm and asks for a little more help to win. Not only does her mother refuse that(understandable enough given the situation) she can't even spare her a "Well done!".

Her mother could have handled of better, I agree but you're way to rosy on Anna. There no way anything she would have said would have matter much. Remember what Anna did to Rosa after she lost? Kicked her out the house like garbage and cut of all contact with her. Anna at this point this full of arrogance and it's not surprising that Susihou doesn't have much loyalty to her. It's not as she purely a victim here.

She then tells her Shingetsu did better with less and that she can't possibly win. Great job sparing her feelings, Mom!

I don't remember he mom speaking like that. Just that magic neither herself nor her grandmother could perform wasn't done by her. Even Shingetsu is superior to her (Anna's mom). It's not proof she can win despite what she thought.

Except Shingetsu was dismissive of her because of her poor magic. Every time she spoke to Anna before, it was the same refrain

In Granbelm when they were already fighting each other, not during their youth, Even if you claim Shingetsu was speaking from arrogance (which she isn't, she just doesn't mince words) Anna is plenty full of herself that not like ever mattered to her.

She did lie. I highly doubt Anna was working hard all this while so she could turn around and destroy magic. Anna not knowing what Shingetsu plans to do doesn't make it not a lie.

What is she planning on telling Anna if she did win and erase magic after that speech?

We don't know what Anna actually wants, but I doubt any of her actions at end was becasue she caught some false. They were done out of desperation. Literally nothing Shingetsu says matters becasue she too much pride to see it any other way.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Maybe she plans to short-circuit that problem by erasing the very memory of magic and everything related.

I think she just plans to erase itself. So there nothing to fight over. Shingetsu is probably fine with Anna hating her as long she fine so not after reconciliation.

I'm also odd that other angle to story isn't being considered, that Shingetsu was literally brought into Anna's family to act as stand-in with no future want of her own in Granbelm. Shingetsu should not have to play second fiddle to Anna, but she resigned herself to that role.

[Kanon]

I don't blame Shingetsu, she was just a naive kid who wanted to make Anna happy. She was harsh in this episode because that was the only way to convey the truth to Anna.

Anna's mother, on the other hand, is shit. She knew all along her daughter didn't perform the magic and she had no talent, yet instead of explaining that to her, she let her live a lie. Given what Shingetsu said to her, it seems like she (the mother) was the one who insisted on not telling Anna anything.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Applehell

Looking at her flashbacks, I don't see that happening at all.

We literally see her mother and her apprentice comparing them this episode. I don't think that just started now.

Shingetsu was never intended to became the head of the family, she was brought primarily to support Anna.

Perhaps they should have told Anna this instead of letting her think Shingetsu was here to replace her. This is a magical family after all.

Her mother could have handled of better, I agree but you're way to rosy on Anna. There no way anything she would have said would have matter much. Remember what Anna did to Rosa after she lost? Kicked her out the house like garbage and cut of all contact with her. Anna at this point this full of arrogance and it's not surprising that Susihou doesn't have much loyalty to her. It's not as she purely a victim here.

I'm not going to defend Anna's actions with Rosa or anything, but it has nothing to do with how her mother is treating her.

I don't remember he mom speaking like that. Just that magic neither herself nor her grandmother could perform wasn't done by her. Even Shingetsu is superior to her (Anna's mom). It's not proof she can win despite what she thought.

That's literally what her mom said.

She's already in the final competition, even if you're not going to give her the magic stone, you can at least cheer her on, even if she has no chance. Don't just tell her straight up she can't win like that.

In Granbelm when they were already fighting each other, not during their youth, Even if you claim Shingetsu was speaking from arrogance (which she isn't, she just doesn't mince words) Anna is plenty full of herself that not like ever mattered to her.

For someone who claims she's trying to avoid hurting her feelings, Shingetsu sure likes saying things that hurt Anna. Can she just not comprehend human emotion?

We don't know what Anna actually wants, but I doubt any of her actions at end was becasue she caught some false. They were done out of desperation. Literally nothing Shingetsu says matters becasue she too much pride to see it any other way.

We can be quite sure Anna isn't trying to destroy magic. I never said what Anna did at the end had anything to do with Shingetsu lying to her again, just that it was a really crappy thing to do after she just got done revealing a lifelong lie to her.

Originally Posted by Kanon

I don't blame Shingetsu, she was just a naive kid who wanted to make Anna happy. She was harsh in this episode because that was the only way to convey the truth to Anna.

I think she got the message when Shingetsu revealed she was the one helping her though. Did she need to rub it in by making the whole thing about her at the end?

Anna's mother, on the other hand, is shit. She knew all along her daughter didn't perform the magic and she had no talent, yet instead of explaining that to her, she let her live a lie. Given what Shingetsu said to her, it seems like she (the mother) was the one who insisted on not telling Anna anything.

Amen.

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I don't blame Shingetsu, she was just a naive kid who wanted to make Anna happy. She was harsh in this episode because that was the only way to convey the truth to Anna.

Anna's mother, on the other hand, is shit. She knew all along her daughter didn't perform the magic and she had no talent, yet instead of explaining that to her, she let her live a lie. Given what Shingetsu said to her, it seems like she (the mother) was the one who insisted on not telling Anna anything.

Yeah, it's "whole road to hell is paved with good intentions" theme. I can't blame Shingestsu for trying support Anna in her own way.

Originally Posted by Endscape

We literally see her mother and her apprentice comparing them this episode. I don't think that just started now.



Perhaps they should have told Anna this instead of letting her think Shingetsu was here to replace her. This is a magical family after all.

In this episode yes. We don't see it in the past. In fact Anna's attitude her back story makes no sense if thought Shingetsu was going to replace her then. She also would have known Shingetsu was helping her. Again their childhood show Anna teach Shingetsu magic which also makes no sense if she thinks Shingetsu was superior to her.

I'm not going to defend Anna's actions with Rosa or anything, but it has nothing to do with how her mother is treating her.

The point is highlight her own pride is as much of driving force here. Especially if that how treats people with less talent than her.

That's literally what her mom said.

She's already in the final competition, even if you're not going to give her the magic stone, you can at least cheer her on, even if she has no chance. Don't just tell her straight up she can't win like that.

Right and as I said her mother could have done better.

For someone who claims she's trying to avoid hurting her feelings, Shingetsu sure likes saying things that hurt Anna. Can she just not comprehend human emotion

We talking about same person who has been going around screaming and even smacking people. How much Shingetsu actually hurting her and not her own pride?. Should Shingetsu continue lying to her? Shingetsu isn't telling her she can't beat her to be nasty, since that not like her at all. She gains nothing form Anna's suffering or rage. You look at it a bit from her perspective.

We can be quite sure Anna isn't trying to destroy magic. I never said what Anna did at the end had anything to do with Shingetsu lying to her again, just that it was a really crappy thing to do after she just got done revealing a lifelong lie to her.

The point is it that nothing Shingetsu to do with her actions at the end which might just involve murder. it's a moot point. Ir should blame Shingetsu for what Anna did?

Beside Anna's wish to become the witch which seems to what well happen if Shingetsu wins Granbelm, so that forfilling her desires for her anyway as she said.

I think she got the message when Shingetsu revealed she was the one helping her though. Did she need to rub it in by making the whole thing about her at the end?

I think that's just how you're interpreting it. Since when Shingetsu been the type to rub things in people's faces?

My overall thought here is that nobody in this situation is clean. Anna's own pride is just as partly to blame.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Applehell

In this episode yes. We don't see it in the past. In fact Anna's attitude her back story makes no sense if thought Shingetsu was going to replace her then. She also would have known Shingetsu was helping her. Again their childhood show Anna teach Shingetsu magic which also makes no sense if she thinks Shingetsu was superior to her.

We have no idea how people treated Anna in the past. We can only extrapolate from how they treat her now.

The point is highlight her own pride is as much of driving force here. Especially if that how treats people with less talent than her.

Again, that has nothing to do with how her mom treats her.

We talking about same person who has been going around screaming and even smacking people. How much Shingetsu actually hurting her and not her own pride?. Should Shingetsu continue lying to her? Shingetsu isn't telling her she can't beat her to be nasty, since that not like her at all. She gains nothing form Anna's suffering or rage. You look at it a bit from her perspective.

As I said, for someone who lied to her for years to spare her feelings, it's odd Shingetsu is going around saying stuff that can only hurt her more every time she sees her, especially since she could just say nothing. I can only assume Shingetsu simply can't get people's feelings at this point.

The point is it that nothing Shingetsu to do with her actions at the end which might just involve murder. it's a moot point. Ir should blame Shingetsu for what Anna did?

Never said that.

Beside Anna's wish to become the witch which seems to what well happen if Shingetsu wins Granbelm, so that forfilling her desires for her anyway as she said.

Semantics.

Anna wasn't working hard her whole life just to throw the prize away after getting it, it is silly to make it seem that simply becoming Princeps only to get rid of magic entirely is somehow analogous to what Anna wants.

I think that's just how you're interpreting it. Since when Shingetsu been the type to rub things in people's faces?

How else can I interpret it?

If she had simply told Anna that she wasn't suited to be a mage and that she should quit, that'd be harsh but fine.

But telling the person who wasted her whole life because of a lie you perpetuated, that watching their pointless hard work was beneficial to you, right when they're at their lowest because they found out about said lie? And then telling them they should "protect" the house full of people that lied to them?

How can that be anything but rubbing it in?

[Applehell]

Originally Posted by Endscape

How else can I interpret it?

If she had simply told Anna that she wasn't suited to be a mage and that she should quit, that'd be harsh but fine.

But telling the person who wasted her whole life because of a lie you perpetuated, that watching their pointless hard work was beneficial to you, right when they're at their lowest because they found out about said lie? And then telling them they should "protect" the house full of people that lied to them?

How can that be anything but rubbing it in?

Shingetsu has more or less been saying she should quit becasue she is not suited for it. Look other than participating in the lie which why she brought for anyway.

I don't feel Shingetsu did much wrong here.

She didn't even what to meet with Anna again due to bad blood between them and gave her space. She only came to see her because her younger sister begged her to do something about her Anna's behavior. However Anna herself has insulted her, tried physically assaulted her at school and almost murder her with axe unprompted. Frankly Shingetsu has the patience of a saint to sit through all that as most would never want to speak to someone who had don't that.

Yes can you argue what Shingetsu said might have been harsh too, but on the otherhand Anna's disposition also might have necessitated given how much Granbelm was consuming her. For all of Shingetsu's faults she never think of harming Anna like she has.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Applehell

Shingetsu has more or less been saying she should quit becasue she is not suited for it. Look other than participating in the lie which why she brought for anyway.

And if that was all she had said, I wouldn't have had any issues.

However Anna herself has insulted her, tried physically assaulted her at school and almost murder her with axe unprompted. Frankly Shingetsu has the patience of a saint to sit through all that as most would never want to speak to someone who had don't that.

You have a point there, but Anna probably would have better off if she hadn't said anything at all.