2019-10-13, 03:04 | Link #122 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: somewhere in Asia
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I think people are overestimates China economic attraction, I mean, they are big for sure, and i'd agree that it's impossible to ignore them 4-5 years ago, but now, not really, The shift away from china began 2-3 years ago. Many companies left CHina from rising cost, and those who still stay are those who either have very big factories or those that make billions in China. Remember, the whole 2025 initiative of China that start this trade war is because they know they are losing the foreign investors. And China's method of ultilising nationalism to rouse the people didn't help it one bit. Let's be honest, there was the time where China using nationalism to boycott Korea and Japan products before, and experts keep claiming that the blows is unbearable, but at the end of the days, they are still perfectly fine.
On the other side, China is in a lot of problem currently, the Hong Kong is just the most eye-catching one, there is still an entire issues with their real estates and economy with rising cost. |
2019-10-13, 08:24 | Link #123 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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There are two sides to China's economic influence. One is its effective low-wage production that has been exploited by Western manufacturers. The other is the size of its ever-expanding middle class. The allure of a market of over a billion people has always been a primary motivation for Western firms. That motivation will persist.
While companies like Nike care about the cost of making shoes in China, the NBA cares about the size of its fanbase in that country.
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2019-10-13, 10:24 | Link #124 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: somewhere in Asia
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size of consumer is indeed important, but i don't think it is nearly as touchy as production is. The motivation will persist, i agree, but what i want to talk about is that is not as solid as people think. The wholet theme of trade war was because of the diffences in deficit between US and China, and i mentioned the Korea and Japan example above, China have a streak of ultilising nationalism to boycott products from certain country, and many people call it serious blow, but at the end of the day, said country is still fine. Of course, I won't deny most western firm will choose profit over it, but China is not so vital to the point of global conomy will collapse without it
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2019-10-13, 19:58 | Link #125 | |
ARCAM Spriggan agent
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SCMP has something new:
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2019-10-13, 21:11 | Link #126 |
Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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The excessive vandalism of public property by the rioters is not justified; it's far removed from the original protesters' cause. There is reason to support the protesters who merely want to stop their liberties from being diminished and voice for their concerns, but any implication that the rioters are in the right is a mistaken thought.
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2019-10-14, 12:05 | Link #129 | |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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Trump promised Xi not to take any action with respect to Hong Kong
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/polit...sts/index.html Quote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-e...ce-11570912439
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2019-10-14, 17:29 | Link #130 | |
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Last edited by Eisdrache; 2019-10-14 at 17:50. |
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2019-10-14, 17:55 | Link #132 |
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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What a loaded question. If I say no you'll call my a hypocrite and if I say yes you'll call me a criminal. Here's a slightly more detailed answer:
If a) my rights are threatened by a vastly stronger power, b) none of my allies were willing to help me, c) said power uses law enforcement to beat me up regardless of whether I provoke them or don't, d) peaceful diplomacy had literally no effect, then yes I'd consider that as a last avenue. |
2019-10-14, 18:01 | Link #133 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: A city with a small mountain in the middle
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Back in the days of the Troubles in Northern Ireland, cops were targeted in kinds of attacks. At the height of violences in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, police units were targeted with bombing against police stations for years. In a different time, I would not shown any understanding as to why insurgents did it. But now, I clearly understand why. When cops are are perceived as an occupying force that protects oppressors than as a force that serves the people with respect to the rule of law, that is what happens. The HK government f***ed themselves because the chief executive is a stubborn c***. Now the whole mess and the blood that accompanies it are on her hands. Last edited by Toukairin; 2019-10-15 at 14:40. |
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2019-10-15, 00:20 | Link #134 | |
ARCAM Spriggan agent
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HKPF has this out:
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2019-10-15, 14:29 | Link #136 | |
大佐
Join Date: Jun 2013
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And in the end violence and terrorism achieves nothing. Just look at the legacy of the RAF in Germany. The fight for true freedom is not a sprint, it's a long grueling marathon. And the less violent it is - from both sides - the more stable will its legacy be. And to be very frank, I don't even consider this radical minority protestors for freedom, liberty and democracy. These couple of people are just using (and poisoning) the movement as an excuse to let out their frustration and live out violence fantasies they under normal circumstances couldn't.
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2019-10-15, 18:52 | Link #137 | |
ARCAM Spriggan agent
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AP has this article on the blowback the NBA is facing:
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2019-10-15, 19:25 | Link #138 | |
Operation sneaky sneaks
IT Support
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Hic et ubique
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Further to this, this well-written piece at SCMP shows that violence is most certainly not the way to accomplish things, least of all when the rioters' goals are anarchy and destruction. To quote the article:
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2019-10-16, 16:44 | Link #139 | |
Part-time misanthrope
Join Date: Mar 2007
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With all due respect to Gandhi's accomplishments, it would not achieve anything of substance in today's China. A non-violent approach is indeed preferable but how long is one willing to suffer the abuse? Ten years? Thirty years? Fifty? Especially in the face of China's control growing stronger as time goes on. Let's face it, China is absolutely willing to use violence anywhere, anytime, and they are the far stronger player. A non-violent process from their side is just a delusional pipe dream. You can see how far this delusion has spread when people in this very thread are believing with heart and soul that the police in Hong Kong is just peacefully defending themselves. Today's parents are going to be so happy to tell their children that they can look forward to another generation of oppression so that maybe their grand-children can live free. To make this clear - I sympathize with peaceful protest, whether it is in Hong Kong or any other place. But the reality is that a long marathon for a stable future are nice words, especially from a place that doesn't have to deal with it, but it's a mockery for those who are suffering right now. |
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2019-10-16, 17:45 | Link #140 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: A city with a small mountain in the middle
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And let's put some closure on the Gandhi stuff here. India would have not gained their independence if it wasn't for a severely weakened British Empire being ripped to shreds by the Germans and by the Japanese a few years before 1947. But when the Empire was strong, I cannot count how many times rebellions, peaceful or not, were crushed by British and loyalist Indian troops. As for China, they are already use their full strength to use violent and illegal means aiming a cultural genocide in Xinjiang. Where's the f***ing police in that region? They are clearly complicit. Like Eisdrache pointed out, some people are severely deluded when they say that cops have to protect themselves. F***ing BS! If the HKPF cares that much about the well-being of their city, I would be expecting mutinies and protests by now just as there have been in other professional layers over there. As I already pointed in a previous post, when cops are perceived as an occupying force (or also as a group that works in hand with the occupying force), you can expect the angry people to be waging war against them. After everything that has been done by the HKPF and left unpunished, the government screwed everything up from the start. Blood will remain on their hands, and there will be a special place in hell for Carrie Lam and the other people who are responsible for the original mess. Last edited by Toukairin; 2019-10-16 at 18:42. |
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