2019-12-13, 10:34 | Link #1361 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2019-12-13, 11:04 | Link #1362 |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: A city with a small mountain in the middle
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In the British constitution, the armed forces of the United Kingdom are under direct command of the Queen (or any reigning monarch). Hence the Prime Minister has no say about deploying troops anywhere and especially on British soil without consulting the Queen first. Since the Royal Family has very deep ties with Scotland, any Prime Minister can stick the mere idea up the bollocks.
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2019-12-13, 11:28 | Link #1363 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 42
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Your post summarises what fake news is all about, taking bits and pieces out of context and using it to make a case. |
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2019-12-13, 11:30 | Link #1364 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Germany
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a) Brexit stood down in all Tory seats giving them basically a coalition because the Brexit Party voters there only had the Tories left to vote if they wanted to do Brexit and not Farage and his goons b) Lab and Libdems ate each other votes up, in several counties if either party had abstained then the Cons would have lost. Sometimes they were in first place with only 100+ or even less votes. c) Corbyn was soooooooooooooo much more disliked than Johnson which caused several Lab voters to stay home which made defending seats easier for Tories as well as taking over the Midlands or the "red wall" from the Labs. Ofc there are other stuff like Tories simple message of getting Brexit done and Lab overpromising and wanting too much change at once or ofc the large money donation Tories got from the 1% of the UK, but in the end tactical voting failed and the remain parties were stealing each other votes whereas Tories stood as sole Brexit party in many seats, making this an easy battle for them. Tories: 364 seats from 13 million votes Labour: 203 seats from 10 million votes SNP: 48 seats from 1.2 million votes Lib Dems: 11 seats from 3.7 million votes See? The amount of votes and seats doesn't add up, so you cannot say people decided they wanted Brexit, you can say they decided they didn't wanted Corbyn and his fence-sitting. Johnson cannot refuse forever and he knows that and everyone in the UK knows that. It will try to delay it but he cannot ignore Scotland's demand forever, because sooner or later he would be seen as an "Overlord" ignoring the democratic will of Scotland and that would be bad for the Union. I dunno when he gonna give Sturgeon her 2nd Indyref but it will happen sometime in the future.
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2019-12-13, 11:53 | Link #1365 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 42
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He won't, and the sole reason is, because she is a woman. If Sturgeon was man, Johnson would have given him what he asks for ages ago. So unless we get another male SNP FM, we won't get another referendum, if the Tories stay in power, down south.
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2019-12-13, 12:03 | Link #1366 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
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It's going to be very confusing for the British people next year where Brexit has finally happened but the media will still be talking about it, and speculating whether or not there's going to be a no deal at the end of the year. (quite likely IMO ) Perhaps the government will start a new "prepare for Brexit" campaign?
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2019-12-13, 15:21 | Link #1367 |
AS Oji-kun
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
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The situation with respect to Scotland is complex. Overall, Scotland has a net "balance of payments" deficit with the rest of the UK. Including or excluding a share of North Sea oil revenues has only a small effect.
Moreover, if I were the Tories, I'd be happy to see Scotland depart. Scotland has voted for the SNP and the LibDems more often in recent elections than for the Tories. A UK without Scotland would be much more likely to return Conservative majorities. I found the results for Northern Ireland much more intriguing. For the first time ever, a majority of constituencies were won by nationalist parties, seven by Sinn Fein and two by the Social Democratic and Labour Party. (Sinn Fein's MPs refuse to sit at Westminster.) The remaining eight seats were won the Democratic Unionists who provided the margin to support Teresa May's government last year. Like Scotland, Northern Ireland voted Remain, while the DUP (reluctantly?) supported Brexit. Expect pressure to build for reuniting with the Republic, especially since Johnson's plan to draw a line in the Irish Sea is not well-regarded in Northern Ireland.
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2019-12-13, 23:56 | Link #1369 |
formerly ogon bat
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mexico
Age: 53
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I think it is time for some good old british humor:
https://www.deviantart.com/jollyjack...tion-823360214 |
2019-12-14, 02:27 | Link #1370 | |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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2019-12-14, 03:59 | Link #1371 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Though now the fun lies in Scotland and Northern Island, as both reject Tories AND reject Brexit. And as was pointed out by others, if the Tories let them go, they would win elections for pretty much forever more. Britain is clearly more conservative than the other kingdoms and wanted different things.
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2019-12-14, 21:08 | Link #1373 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Regardless, the Brexit voters won fair and square within the rules. The same way ancient Athens once voted for a greedy invasion of a peaceful neighbour for their resources. The thing with democracy is that the people don't always vote for nice things. The issue now is, what to do now? And the Scottish people appear to know what to do about it.
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2019-12-14, 23:37 | Link #1375 |
Licensed Hunter-a-holic
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35
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We can crunch the numbers down all day, but in the end, it doesn't matter now does it? Boris got his majority, he'll sign the deal the EU feeds him, tell his supporters he got Brexit done (however that may take shape), stick the border in the sea, and life will go on. Probably for the worse for people in the UK, but it is what it is.
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2019-12-15, 01:18 | Link #1376 | |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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Last edited by Guardian Enzo; 2019-12-15 at 01:39. |
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2019-12-15, 06:27 | Link #1377 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Adding the losing parties votes together and saying there very mixed up messengers is proof that the people didn't want Brexit is kind of pushing it to be honest. Labour especially was anything but clear on Brexit, often using vague wording and pushing other issues to the front over Brexit.
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2019-12-15, 06:54 | Link #1378 |
Seishu's Ace
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kyoto, Japan
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But they did (at last) officially back a second referendum.
The vote at the Euro elections, where the Brexit Party went off, split 50-50 between remain and leave parties. The vote this time split 50-50 (slightly in favor of remain/referendum parties, but we'll let that go). The point is that that saying the election results prove "the UK wants Brexit" is an unsupportable statement not corroborated by the actual results.
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2019-12-15, 13:30 | Link #1380 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
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If we say that there were 3 options on the table, namely "get Brexit done" (Tories + UKIP + Brexit Party), "2nd referendum" (Labour) and "Remain" (the other parties) then I think it would be fair to say that Brexit won a "plurality" of the vote (which is typically called a "relative majority" in the UK):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plurality_(voting) So it's not an absolute majority but a relative majority. btw, I'd suggest that by the same argument that the SNP (who got 45% of the vote in Scotland) can't genuinely claim to have popular support for a 2nd independence referendum. All the other parties were against it (AFAIK) and there was no third option on the table. |
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