Syosetsuka ni Narou Discussion Thread

[wuhugm]

^In Renkinjutsushika no Benkyou de Isogashii node Jamashinaide Kudasai too
Coz here, divine punishment is real
Many professions require one to make some vows
Criminals still exist but they are basically outside of society, thus corruption is basically 0
Nice system

[Ultimateninjax]

Does anyone know the name of a novel on syosetu about a guy who's playing a rts like game and gets transported to isekai with his entire country of op monsters. I think the first arc is him saving an elf country. Need the japanese name or ncode number.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Random thought...

In many fantasy/isekai stories, humans are the individually weakest so should see fewer human dominated worlds.

Follow-on thought...

Imagine your typical hero summoning ritual, except it's by a bunch of elves (or whatever) and they're super disappointed at getting a mere human (or humans) from the big expensive ritual...

[DBAV]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Random thought...

In many fantasy/isekai stories, humans are the individually weakest so should see fewer human dominated worlds.

Follow-on thought...

Imagine your typical hero summoning ritual, except it's by a bunch of elves (or whatever) and they're super disappointed at getting a mere human (or humans) from the big expensive ritual...

Most authors paint humans as cockroaches weak but they are everywhere while other species are usually rare so it makes sense for most kingdoms to be human, though your idea is interesting, I don't remember any novel about other species supremacy.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by DBAV

Most authors paint humans as cockroaches weak but they are everywhere while other species are usually rare so it makes sense for most kingdoms to be human, though your idea is interesting, I don't remember any novel about other species supremacy.

Many series have magic users = nobles. If elves (or similar) have better intrinsic magic, wouldn't the same happen? I seem to remember "slave harem" having elf nobles being common but I can't remember the details.

Thing for population is what matters is the net growth rate. Historical fertility rates were around 5-6 children per woman. But child mortality rates were very high too - of those 5-6 children only 2.5-3 would survive to adulthood. From year 500 to 1500 (Medieval period), the world population approximately doubled.

So let's imagine a world starting with 1m human children and 1m elven children. Let's say the human population doubles to 2m in 1000 years. What would the elves do? Let's say an average elf lives 4x as long, has 4 children per woman in their lifetime but nearly all survive to adults due to better lifestyle/magic/etc. Let's say elf women typically have 1 child every 50 years (until the 4th child after which they have no more). That means after 200 years you have 0.5m elf women having 4 children each = 2m. But the 2nd generation will also start to have kids after 50 years. Meaning, if 2nd generation are born after 50 years and start to have their own children after another 50 years then 3rd gen will appear after 100 years and if we assume 50% female then after 50 years you'll have 0.5m babies (0.25m female).

To summarise:
Year 0: 1m 1st gen
Year 50: 1m 1st gen + 0.5m 2nd gen
Year 100: 1m 1st gen + 1m 2nd gen + 0.25m 3rd gen
Year 150: 1m 1st gen + 1.5m 2nd gen + 0.75m 3rd gen + 0.125m 4th gen
Year 200: 1m 1st gen + 2m 2nd gen + 1.5m 3rd gen + 0.625m 4th gen + 0.0625 5th gen
After this the 1st gen is "effectively" dead but rest of population is already about 4.2m

I think you'd agree that a child ever 50 years is a very slow birth rate. But if almost all survive and average adult has 4 children total, then the population is going to grow very very quickly - basically like modern Earth.

It's not because we're cockroaches that humans have taken over the world. It's mainly because our youth mortality rate dropped from about 50% to about 3% (about 0.3% in advanced countries).

[DBAV]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Many series have magic users = nobles. If elves (or similar) have better intrinsic magic, wouldn't the same happen? I seem to remember "slave harem" having elf nobles being common but I can't remember the details.

Thing for population is what matters is the net growth rate. Historical fertility rates were around 5-6 children per woman. But child mortality rates were very high too - of those 5-6 children only 2.5-3 would survive to adulthood. From year 500 to 1500 (Medieval period), the world population approximately doubled.

So let's imagine a world starting with 1m human children and 1m elven children. Let's say the human population doubles to 2m in 1000 years. What would the elves do? Let's say an average elf lives 4x as long, has 4 children per woman in their lifetime but nearly all survive to adults due to better lifestyle/magic/etc. Let's say elf women typically have 1 child every 50 years (until the 4th child after which they have no more). That means after 200 years you have 0.5m elf women having 4 children each = 2m. But the 2nd generation will also start to have kids after 50 years. Meaning, if 2nd generation are born after 50 years and start to have their own children after another 50 years then 3rd gen will appear after 100 years and if we assume 50% female then after 50 years you'll have 0.5m babies (0.25m female).

To summarise:
Year 0: 1m 1st gen
Year 50: 1m 1st gen + 0.5m 2nd gen
Year 100: 1m 1st gen + 1m 2nd gen + 0.25m 3rd gen
Year 150: 1m 1st gen + 1.5m 2nd gen + 0.75m 3rd gen + 0.125m 4th gen
Year 200: 1m 1st gen + 2m 2nd gen + 1.5m 3rd gen + 0.625m 4th gen + 0.0625 5th gen
After this the 1st gen is "effectively" dead but rest of population is already about 4.2m

I think you'd agree that a child ever 50 years is a very slow birth rate. But if almost all survive and average adult has 4 children total, then the population is going to grow very very quickly - basically like modern Earth.

It's not because we're cockroaches that humans have taken over the world. It's mainly because our youth mortality rate dropped from about 50% to about 3% (about 0.3% in advanced countries).

I was talking about another species claiming supremacy, try to conquer the world and oppressing humans and other species.

Even using those numbers, most novels have elves for example being sexually active much later than humans and their birthrate is a joke (like a kid every 500 years) so a few hundred years after humans build a kingdom and achieve some kind of stability they are going to outgrow most species.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by DBAV

I was talking about another species claiming supremacy, try to conquer the world and oppressing humans and other species.

I know and I agree with you. I was basically suggesting it's quite likely that elves could easily dominate if we make certain assumptions.

If anything, humans NOT dominating should be far more common than is typically shown, if we assume that humans are the weakest species, or close to.

In generic fantasy, the "demons" often have elf-like ears. Could easily consider scenario where one group of elves decide to take a hostile stance towards humans and culturally become the "demons" and the other elves decide to retreat into the forest (and avoid humans).

Even using those numbers, most novels have elves for example being sexually active much later than humans and their birthrate is a joke (like a kid every 500 years) so a few hundred years after humans build a kingdom and achieve some kind of stability they are going to outgrow most species.

Pretty dumb. The numbers I sketched out for elves previously would make giant pandas look like rabbits. Natural selection would never produce such a species and it's hard to imagine a god designing a species that simply will never grow much in terms of population counts.

If elves have modern Earth level child mortality rates then about the only thing that could reasonably keep their population down is frequent wars with the humans.

[Rasty]

^ Magic can decrease the mortality rate and 5 children are far from the max if population growth is stimulated. In history population growth was mostly constrained by the food supply, even diseases were often caused by malnutrition, magic should decently up the food supply (and decrease the spread of epidemics).

There is also another problem you failed to include. If the 1M people clash with the 1M elves bloodily and you get 50k dead on both sides, the human side will much faster recoup the losses (losing males doesn't significantly affect the population growth-size), and in a few years fight again, but elves can't. Even if their population growth rate was the same (which it usually isn't), just the longer replenishment rate would be fatal. Humans could just grind them slowly to dust.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

If elves have modern Earth level child mortality rates then about the only thing that could reasonably keep their population down is frequent wars with the humans.

There are also societal factors. Most elves, starting from Lord of the Rings, have societies where childbirth is not necessary due to living in forests that don't inspire people to procreate much, even with their originally low fertility rates.

[wuhugm]

In Santairiku Eiyuuki, Elves are the ruling class of the world
Still with low birth, but there they have amazing spirit magic
So the more pure the elves, the higher status they have

Isekai Rant #? :

- Regarding skills and skill copy/steal

Skill system in isekai stories is the norm now
And we often have MC who can copy those skills from man and monsters
Problem is, for monsters, those skills usually related to their physiology, like Dragon Breath or Slime Division
But MC copies those skills no problem
Did his body change to match the requirement to use those skills? Doesn't seem like it

[Kyureki]

^ Most of the skill system ones I see, the MC just plain can't use the skills that require corresponding body parts/organs.

[XFire]

Has anyone here read Half-Elves Fall in Love (n2348dz)?

Does the MC ever become immortal or longer-lived? Him dying as a human seems kinda cruel to the girls.

[DBAV]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

In Santairiku Eiyuuki, Elves are the ruling class of the world
Still with low birth, but there they have amazing spirit magic
So the more pure the elves, the higher status they have

Isekai Rant #? :

- Regarding skills and skill copy/steal

Skill system in isekai stories is the norm now
And we often have MC who can copy those skills from man and monsters
Problem is, for monsters, those skills usually related to their physiology, like Dragon Breath or Slime Division
But MC copies those skills no problem
Did his body change to match the requirement to use those skills? Doesn't seem like it

Thanks for the info.

Regarding copy/steal and skill system
Most MC's can't use those skills so they give them to the proper pet or convert them to points, I'm reading level eater at the moment and the mc can't steal skills only points but that's the first time I've seen that system.
Are there novels with skill system that have limits? I mean MC receives the skill steal cheat, but he can only equip or posses a number of skills etc.. something like a relative cheat power.

[apr]

Originally Posted by DBAV

Are there novels with skill system that have limits? I mean MC receives the skill steal cheat, but he can only equip or posses a number of skills etc.. something like a relative cheat power.

The protagonist in ここではありふれた物語 has a kind of inventory limit on total skill levels that's bounded by his age in years, if I still remember it right.

Edit: And 自分が異世界に転移するなら has a Steal skill with slot limits (which can be bumped with exp points).

[Garn]

I don't know how there are authors who name a single city as "country" by calling it "capital" without even mentioning the existence of other populated areas of the supposed kingdom, even more so when the "capital" is besieged by an army of monsters or demons and when the MC travels to the neighboring country "capital" that is a couple of days or less away, and even so, a settlement affiliated with the kingdom is never mentioned, all the capitals of the surrounding countries are next to each other..

It's hard to remember the last novel I read that gave the feeling that the world was bigger than Europe or Australia

[erneiz_hyde]

Was there any fiction ever that came close to our actual reality? Aside from the one taking place in actual Earth? I don't think even Middle Earth was as big as our Earth. Even fiction taking place in space with multiple planets rarely ever give the sense of appropriate "vastness" in its world building. If you delve deep enough into fictional world building you will re-appreciate the vastness of our real Earth, and you will inevitably pick some compromises in building fictional worlds, and ultimately you will need to learn that that's just fine.

[Garn]

It is understandable, but what I say are the novels in which the kingdoms are only 1 city that are mentioned as capital of the same kingdom, equally vast and developed as a capital would be but with the only problem that there is no other city in that kingdom or even other settlements are mentioned. To this is added the fact that any other settlement that is mentioned is either the only capital city of a country or a free city that is commercial or linked to a dungeon.

The dimensions that are expressed do not exceed the cities that make up a single state (or similar designation) of any country

[wuhugm]

Finally found a nekomimi MC :

Nekomimi Shoujo ni Tenseishitara Naguri Tokka Deshita

[Kyureki]

Originally Posted by Garn

It is understandable, but what I say are the novels in which the kingdoms are only 1 city that are mentioned as capital of the same kingdom, equally vast and developed as a capital would be but with the only problem that there is no other city in that kingdom or even other settlements are mentioned. To this is added the fact that any other settlement that is mentioned is either the only capital city of a country or a free city that is commercial or linked to a dungeon.

The dimensions that are expressed do not exceed the cities that make up a single state (or similar designation) of any country

I feel that like the "yuusha vs maou" template, this is also influenced by Dragon Quest and its contemporaries. These games are always listing off "kingdoms" but there's always only ever the one city for each of them with the rest being wilderness or smaller settlements.

[bakato]

Originally Posted by wuhugm

In Santairiku Eiyuuki, Elves are the ruling class of the world
Still with low birth, but there they have amazing spirit magic
So the more pure the elves, the higher status they have

Isekai Rant #? :

- Regarding skills and skill copy/steal

Skill system in isekai stories is the norm now
And we often have MC who can copy those skills from man and monsters
Problem is, for monsters, those skills usually related to their physiology, like Dragon Breath or Slime Division
But MC copies those skills no problem
Did his body change to match the requirement to use those skills? Doesn't seem like it

The whole skill system is a mistake in my opinion. It's just so banal. There's nothing worse than reading a list of skills during a fight and what constitutes a skill can be ridiculous like breathing, sneezing, taking a shit etc. Whatever happened to the good old times when we had in-depth power systems like Nasuverse? Or at least realistic sword techniques like Rurouni Kenshin or Gamaran? It's stuff like these that filled you with wonder and made you think about what else might be possible.