Shin High School DxD Volume 4 Discussion

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

you never know, issei has beaten people way stronger trough cunning, riser, cao cao and more. when he has the back against the wall issei is perfectly capable of pulling the most ridiculous bullshit and still get away whit it, also its much better to fight the uber powerful god knowing about him than blindly rush him and get utterly annihilated.

beggars cant be choosers and they are not in the position to not use any potential resource to pull a win

It is not even comprable the power difference between issei vs Riser or Cao with those of Someone stronger a dragon god, when shiva is not even near to Great Red.

The strategy or know the weak point will not make you able to defeat Someone a lot of stronger than everyone if you are not even comparable to him.

[saucerKing]

okay... what did le fay do aside of defeating meredith? no im seriously asking, we got a lot of spoilers about ExE but im also interested in how the fight between them went down and why did she hate le fay so much, not to mention the exact powers of alphecca tyrant since if it was only mind control there would be evil issei and not non-perverted issei

edit:

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

It is not even comprable the power difference between issei vs Riser or Cao with those of Someone stronger a dragon god, when shiva is not even near to Great Red.

The strategy or know the weak point will not make you able to defeat Someone a lot of stronger than everyone if you are not even comparable to him.

well maybe great red power will go to issei familiar thus bringing him to dragon god level? also i do feel to remind you that when issei used his last trick on riser he was tired, injured and barely had the energy for a few boosts and whit cao cao he could barely stand and cao cao was perfectly fine.

also you are being too pessimistic on this, yes this guy killed great red and all but now at least they can dump trihexa on them, get all the ones fighting it back and then plan something, as far as we know its just him and some ULs so they could pull a win if they plan it very well, he has some weakness and they have luck.

[Le Fay]

Spoiler for VIP Meeting:

Maou Ajuka Beelzebub showed what was happening at the moment in his private research institution to the former Governor of Grigori Azazel, who was currently in isolation barrier, and reported.
What appeared before Azazel’s eyes was a phenomenon that occurred to Hyodou Issei’s body.
『Hey, Ise! Push master Rias’ nipples! 』
『No! T-this is something you can’t do until you get married! I-it’s extremely lewd! Listen, Xenovia! It’s not something high-school boys should do! 』
『What are you talking about this late! What is a boy, who was always enjoying everyone’s breasts that much, saying! How many times do you think you rubbed my breasts! 』
『That’s right, darling! Push them! Push! 』
『Ise-san! Please, push Rias one-sama’s breasts!』
『Uwaa! Irina and Asia are too leeeeeeewd! 』
『…I forcibly made Ise-sempai to put out his fingers. Now, Rias nee-sama, here, your breasts. 』
『I-I understand, Koneko. 』
『Stop this, Riaaaaaaas! I don’t want to push! I don’t want tooooo! 』
『Aaaan! 』
『He pushed them! How is this, Ravel!』
『……No good, x-sama. Ise-sama---lost his consciousness! 』
『Ara-ara. Rias, this…looks bad. 』
『You are right, Akeno. …To think he would lose his consciousness after pushing my breasts… As I thought, it looks like the only choice is to directly question the Longinus possessor who rewrote Ise’s concepts himself. 』
---the record was going on until the moment Hyoudou Isseis pushed Rias Gremory’s nipples.
Girls’ hard struggling in vain, it ended in an unbelievable way with Hyoudou Issei, whose nature itself was rewritten, fainting after pushing Rias Gremory’s breasts that he loved so much.
A change to the current Sekiryuutei who many times achieved miraculous power-ups through pushing Rias Gremory’s nipples.
Azazel, who was acquainted with Hyoudou Ise’s ability more than anyone else and was an authority in Sacred Gear research, had a sorrowful expression after seeing this result.
『…That Rias, she really became a good girl. Even when Ise used her breasts as s switch or a battery, or when he became unable to recognize oppai, or came to dislike oppai like now and has to be nursed, she accompanies him with devotion… 』
“……”
----I don’t even know how to comment this.
That’s what Ajuka thought in his mind.
Putting a hand at his forehead Azazel said across projection.
『…That being said, to reproduce this Ise from my UFO. How dare you… Geez, he picked up information even about such a play, that damn Hades……! 』
Ajuka said.
“In the DxD’s fights against the Leaders of Hell they were presented clearly before them. Miraculous deeds of Hyoudou Issei-kun. In the fight against Thanatos Gautama Buddha and Kannon came running, in the fight against Vidar he manifested Ddraig, the original Sekiryuutei. While fighting Nyx he delivered Invild Leviathan’s song to the battlefield and defeated the goddess of night, in Kyoto after bringing Erebus down he settled a decisive battle with Tartaros with overwhelming power due to Skithblathnir’s unexpected transformation… Numerous military gains and miracles he raised during fights with the Leaders of Hell made them feel a sense of impending crisis…so they thought what if on the contrary they could beat that.”
『Individual strength of DxD members’ is also reliable, but they recruited many miraculous-like existences. And they targeted the one who lacks common sense and whom you can’t predict or expect the most amongst them, Ise. Because he’s certainly the one who overturns predicaments the most. 』
Azazel said so.
This goes to the means he used to achieve all sorts of power-ups too, but like with his revival during Demonic Beast Riot, Dragon Deification during Evil Dragon War, achievements at Rating Games tournament and also during the fights with the Leaders of Hell Hyoudou Issei escaped predicaments with miracles that no one has seen before.
And if it’s Hades who came to see those, he probably thought.
---If only we could deal with just him.
While searching for a way to seal Hyoudou Issei, he probably found it instigating Kuou city. Azazel’s prank in the past---
A strength enough to allow for powerfully recreating a simple mischief is also troublesome and dangerous.
However, Hades and his allies found even it.
---[Alphecca Tyrant].
Azazel asked.
『The ability of the new [Alphecca Tyrant], as I thought, current possessor is subspieces, huh?』
Ajuka answered him with a nod.
“Yes. Grigori and my research institution investigated it, and it’s different from the ability manifested by a previous possessor. There are two aspects to the ability which previous possessor used. Being able to attack with a nail-like object made of holy aura, and also being able to brainwash opponents by making a group of people listen a conversation for several minutes with a certain fixed keyword inserted in it. Furthermore, there’s no limit on the numbers. A previous owner stood before the large crowd of people as s lecturer, satisfied requirements and dominated a single town.”
『…If this Sacred Gear were to appear much earlier, it would’ve been quite terrible.』
“Yes. I’m frightened by the thought of what could’ve happened if someone eloquent manifested it during the times of humanity’s great wars. However, it is said that the previous possessor couldn’t control supernatural beings.”
『So what about the current possessor’s ability?』
“Rewriting concepts of those who were struck by the nail made of holy aura. And it’s not meant for ordinary humans---“
『…And ability limited to Sacred Gear possessors, huh. That’s why it had an effect even on a Longinus possessor.』
That’s how Azazel continued after Ajuka.
At any rate, it seems like Azazel also could have imagined it to some extent.

Abilities of the previous [Alphecca Tyrant] and of the current [Alphecca Tyrant] are different----

Meredith Ordinton, the current possessor, is an ex-magician of Golden Dawn and, although not direct, she has a blood of authorized people of England’s royal family.
She was a child conceived between authorized person from royal family and a lover, and wasn’t acknowledged by royal family.
It looks like Meredith awakened to her Longinus’ powers in the recent years and by using it she controlled other Sacred Gear possessors.
Azazel said.
『According to information provided with a request from Pendragon House, there are several Sacred Gear possessors confirmed in [Alphecca Tyrant]’s surroundings that are controlled by Longinus’ ability.』
“It looks like she’s gathering Sacred Gear possessors with abilities allowing for manipulation of other people like illusions or control over mind and body. Using those powers she likely tricks inner circles of England into disorder.”
Azazel squinted.
『So the previous possessor had an ability to control ordinary people using words and the current one targets Sacred Gear possessors by stabbing with a nail, huh. So the thing they have in common is overwriting concepts of the target group. 』
“…Perhaps, control and holy nails, these are the fundamental characteristics of this Longinus and the rest depends on the user.”
Ajuka began to think that this time the ability might not be a subspecies.
『Because it’s a new Longinus there’s not enough information, huh. Ah, geez. If I was there, it would be the best research subject. Shit! What’s with this very interesting new species! 』
Azazel got excited, but immediately calmed down and cleaned his throat.
『…So, what’s going on in England at this moment? 』
“On the outside government seems to be functioning, but on the inside about half of the influential people are controlled by [Alphecca Tyrant]---in other words, by Meredith Ordinton.”
『It means that girl Meredith is brainwashing and controlling all of the influential people using illusion and manipulation-type Sacred Gears possessors. 』
The ability Meredith employs is, in a sense, much more villainous than the “getting control by making them listen to a keyword” which a previous possessor of [Alphecca Tyrant] used.
Being able to manipulate Sacred Gear possessors is enough of a threat in itself, but the fact it proved effective against Hyoudou Issei means that a possibility of it working on other Longinus possessors too is extremely high. This is exceedingly dangerous.
Majority of Longinus possessors of this era reached Balance Breaker. And amongst them there are those who surpassed even that.
If it can rewrite concepts of those people---it’s the worst.
If it’s possible to implant within Longinus possessors concepts like “Destroy the world” or “Kill various gods”…it might be possible to overturn in one go status quo between each mythology depending on the way it is used.
As far as anti-Sacred Gear or anti-Longinus goes, there’s no more terrifying than this.
In other words, in case of confronting Meredith Ordinton, exposing Sacred Gear possessors is dangerous. The more powerful they are, the more---
Ajuka said.
“Leaders of Hell made contact with Meredith Ordinton. Rather, they found someone able to break down Hyoudou Issei-kun’s power.”
『So it doesn’t seem unrelated to the incident with Nyx finding [Neries Kiere]. 』
“Probably because they’d been extensively searching for new Longinus and Longinus-class Sacred Gears.”
『What about Hades’ faction? Their stronghold was found? 』
Ajuka nodded at Azazel’s question.
A stereoscopic image was projected to Azazel through a magic circle.
It showed a world of ice.
“Yes, at the lowest strata of the Realm of the Dead---Cocytos’ inner part, there was a large scale research institution…but it’s already empty.”
Projection showed and ice valley and a research facility located in its interior.
Even more, it showed what was inside the facility, a huge floor in fraught with cultivation tanks.
“We also discovered a giant cultivation tank in which the mother of devils Lilith-sama was supposedly placed. Moreover, this research facility was somehow connected with Rizevim Livan Lucifer, it seems.”
Azazel made a sour face.
『Rizevim…in Cocytos! That bastard, doing such a thing in Cocytos… And that Hades being himself finding and using it. I wonder if the bunch of those who hate us has something that resonates and hails them together. 』
After pulling himself together Azazel asked Ajuka.
『So, what are Hades and the others’ current whereabouts? 』
Ajuka created the Earth’s model from a magic circle and, after spinning it, made a single point flicker with light. It was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland---the Great Britain.
Ajuka said.
“At present they are inside a personal space created deep under London. Hades as well as the army of Grim Reapers following him, Zoroaster Evil God Angra Mainyu, the mother of devils Lilith-sama and artificial transcendentals born from her---Balberith and Verrine.”
『As well as unidentified devils born from Lilith, I guess. In other words, remaining forces of the Leaders of Hell gathered in England. Ddraig and Albion’s impostors are related to Angra Mainyu, right? 』
Ajuka nodded.
“Yes, most likely, a technology that created Azi Dahaka was utilized. Because and aura of Evil Dragons was perceived from impostors.”
『Evil Dragon-type Two Heavenly Dragons, huh. Likely to match war potential, but…the fact that they are escorting that Meredith girl means they are bodyguards? 』
“Perhaps, they also have a goal of instigating the Two Heavenly Dragons and their possessors, however the Ddraig himself showed interest, but didn’t appear that angry.”
『…In all probability, they’ll say “Let me handle it”, both Ddraig and Vali. Maybe this is Hades and the others’ countermeasure for Two Heavenly Dragons anticipating that. And, how are countermeasures for the Leaders of Hell on our end?』
“We’ve already conveyed information to every mythology as well as to influential people in human world, and completed preparations for monitoring and enclosing the territory so that Hades and the rest won’t be able to escape England.”
『So unless something really big happens, Hades and his allies are not getting away from there. Do-or-die, huh. It should be a decisive battle against them. 』
“Yes, I have the same intentions.”
『What about situation in England’s inner circles? Those around Prime Minister and the royal family are safe? 』
“Their secret intelligence bureaus---people from MI6 and American CIA are cooperating and strengthening the guard. Every mythology also sent their capable agents, so there should be no immediate influence.”
『There are supernatural power users---Sacred Gear possessors in MI6 and CIA too, but this time the compatibility is the worst. 』
“We also can’t make an appearance that easily. And we are talking about DxD’s dispatch under such conditions, so we should be extremely meticulous.”
『DxD is full of Sacred Gear possessors with crazy abilities. If anyone besides Ise gets influenced by [Alphecca Tyrant], there’s a possibility of a crushing defeat. 』
“I intend to support them as much as possible, but at the actual place there’s no other way but to believe in their action.”
『Well, I wait for good news inside this isolation barrier. 』
『Yeah, Me too. 』
Suddenly, a crimson haired devil entered the conversation with this words---It was Sirzechs Lucifer. Probably, it was his time for rest during a fight with Trihexa.
Naturally, he also already knew about the circumstances.
While gulping down water from a container, Sirzechs said.
『If it’s Ise-kun, he’ll become Oppai Dragon once again. That’s what I believe. 』
At this words both Azazel and Ajuka smiled.
『That’s for sure. 』
“Yes, I know, Sirzechs. I believe in that too.”

[Anime-Oppai-Lover]

Originally Posted by Endscape

At worst they could maybe just drop Trihexa on the guy, and observe the battle to figure out what he can do.

Even if this doesn't work, there's another good reason to throw Trihexa into the ExE world.

It frees everyone fighting the monster because they know it will likely be killed by them.

[DragoMuseveni]

So finally caught up with the spoilers. GR death seemed a bit too easy for me , just to induce some drama . How will Ise gonna power up in the future to fight against someone on Regal or Melvazoa level .
Also they should had let Rizevim go to EXE world . Trihexa even with his regeneration skill would had died in a matter of hours
This is going to surpass even DBZ levels .

Or maybe Ise form in the Ex novels is a combination between him and GR remains when he defeats regal

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by DragoMuseveni

So finally caught up with the spoilers. GR death seemed a bit too easy for me , just to induce some drama . How will Ise gonna power up in the future to fight against someone on Regal or Melvazoa level .
Also they should had let Rizevim go to EXE world . Trihexa even with his regeneration skill would had died in a matter of hours
This is going to surpass even DBZ levels .

Or maybe Ise form in the Ex novels is a combination between him and GR remains when he defeats regal

Yeah and let Trihexa destroy a few countries while at it.

They had no idea how strong the beings in the other world were. What if sending Trihexa there was seen as an act of war?

Rizevim was a terrorist and there really wasn't any indication he could fully control Trihexa once it awakened. Would that have been worth it?

So Alphecca Tyrant is able to rewrite a Sacred Gear possessor's concept. That's really scary. Then again all of the Longinus are.

[Darksider555]

@Lucidrago
Rather wasn't you who said it had a ability related to mind control?
It's interesting to see that Ingvild's Longinus can control the strongest beings in DxDU, Dragons. While Meredith can control the potential of humans, the Sacred Gear users and influence the Ultimate Sacred Gears, the Longinus.

I assume that Meredith can also use Holy Aura from the nails as means of attack but that isn't as strong as the True Longinus or Incenerate Anthem.

[The Infinite Dream]

I wouldnt say great reds death was easy. Its just that great red doesnt fight. He has no experience to draw from so its not really shocking whether a beings who has slightly less power or a being who has more power is able to beat him if they're fighters with experience. There goes Valis Dream though to fight against him.

[godz]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

I wouldnt say great reds death was easy. Its just that great red doesnt fight. He has no experience to draw from so its not really shocking whether a beings who has slightly less power or a being who has more power is able to beat him if they're fighters with experience. There goes Valis Dream though to fight against him.

If great red doesn't fight, then what is your justification for Ophis not to throw it out? Not to mention that ophis has not shown fighting skills and was still number 1 in the top 10.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Darksider555

@Lucidrago
Rather wasn't you who said it had a ability related to mind control?
It's interesting to see that Ingvild's Longinus can control the strongest beings in DxDU, Dragons. While Meredith can control the potential of humans, the Sacred Gear users and influence the Ultimate Sacred Gears, the Longinus.

I assume that Meredith can also use Holy Aura from the nails as means of attack but that isn't as strong as the True Longinus or Incenerate Anthem.

No I was way off. But to be honest I don't remember most of my posts.

So I wonder if anything of significance happened between Issei and Le Fay.

[The Infinite Dream]

Ophis at least knows who to use her powers to fight as she has used them in the series to fight before even though she couldnt control them becauseshe got her powers drained. Great red on the other hand we've been given no information he even knows how to use his to fight. We do how ever know he isnt a part of the top 10 even though hes so strong because he doesnt fight. Pretty good indicator anyone remotely his level would be able to beat him if they have fighting experience.

[Marvix]

That's what i want to know!! Was there a proposal!! I dont need repeats of the fights spoilers!

[godz]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

Ophis at least knows who to use her powers to fight as she has used them in the series to fight before even though she couldnt control them becauseshe got her powers drained. Great red on the other hand we've been given no information he even knows how to use his to fight. We do how ever know he isnt a part of the top 10 even though hes so strong because he doesnt fight. Pretty good indicator anyone remotely his level would be able to beat him if they have fighting experience.

That makes ophis look stupid, at its best I can't make great red and associated with the khaos brigade to be able to kill great red and get its silence, now you tell me that ophis could alone? That has no logic

[The Infinite Dream]

When did i say ophis could beat him i said she knows how to use her powers to fight thats why shes on the top 10. Cearly there a distinct levels even between dragons gods the same as we've seen of people who are heavenly dragon level. Dont put words in my mouth. She might not actually be strong enough to beat him a lone even though he cant fight. Now if you put someone who is slightly lower or higher than him its a different story.

[godz]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

When did i say ophis could beat him i said she knows how to use her powers to fight thats why shes on the top 10. Cearly there a distinct levels even between dragons gods the same as we've seen of people who are heavenly dragon level. Dont put words in my mouth. She might not actually be strong enough to beat him a lone even though he cant fight. Now if you put someone who is slightly lower or higher than him its a different story.

You said in the previous post that someone with experience of fighting at the level of great red could kill him, because I show you the example of ophis who being not only in the top 10 but also at the level of great red could not kill him.

And ophis was the undisputed number 1 of the top 10, superior to shiva the current number 1

[The Infinite Dream]

Just because ophis is number 1 strongest doesnt mean she is at the same level as great red even being a dragon god. Why else would she need people to help her beat him. I said people remotely close to his level that means in the general range of it. That would exclude her as apparently she wasnt the same level otherwise she wouldnt seek help from outside sources. As we've seen before there are differences in the levels of power even in the same classifications.

[godz]

Originally Posted by The Infinite Dream

Just because ophis is number 1 strongest doesnt mean she is at the same level as great red even being a dragon god. Why else would she need people to help her beat him. I said people remotely close to his level that means in the general range of it. That would exclude her as apparently she wasnt the same level otherwise she wouldnt seek help from outside sources. As we've seen before there are differences in the levels of power even in the same classifications.

So you affirm that ophis was weaker than great red? if you're right this looks more fucked for the DxD group.

[The Infinite Dream]

Yes ive never said she was stronger than him to begin with. If she was stronger or at least the same level she would have taken back the dimensional gap a long time ago.

[godz]

do you think that crom cruach dies before regalzeva? if regalzeva decides to appear in front of the hyodou mansion we could see the end of kuoh.

[Malbolge]

Spoiler for various spoilers:

Meredith cursed Issei after Vali's RG. Issei, Rossweisse and Le Fay were discussing Issei and Le Fay's magical contract. Since It happen when he was Middle-class, and now Issei's being promoted, they want to revise it. Issei in an elevator encounters Meredith, she asked "Sekiryuutei, do you like your present self?" Then she attacks him with a holy nail, they rush in and see Meredith with the Fake Ddraig. Le Fay notices that it was Meredith that attacked Issei before both Meredith and Fake Ddraig escaped.

In Irina's house in Europe, Sairaorg and Vali instantly realized that something's wrong with Issei. Vali notices because his aura, wavelength and physical appearance seems different.

Crom has sent Bova to train in Dragon Mountain. Its a legendary place that even Ddraig and Albion doubted its existence. The only way there is through a Dragon Gate. Ddraig and Albion when they were alive never used a Dragon Gate themselves, so they couldnt go there. Issei and Vali are interested in going there

Verrine lost because she doesnt know how to properly maintain stamina. She fought through instinct, but lacks experience

Zeno begged Sairaorg not to kill Balberith after Sairaorg defeated Balberith

Le Fay and Issei had a BBQ after renegotiating their contract.

The Dimension Gap is filled with UL, Spirits, and Gods, plus Regalzeva, and the Atrocity Fanatic. They also invaded FxF simply because they passed by it by accident and saw a "New World" and thought lets go invade it.