Shin High School DxD Volume 4 Discussion

[godz]

Angels deserve power up, I say they may no longer have God but they need to increase their strength.
the fallen, however, as Azazel says, have already resigned themselves to extinction.

[Gundam Meister]

So with the info on the spoilers how many characters will Ishibumi needs to power up to above Great Red/Ophis tier for Team DxD to stand a chance against the Invaders

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by Gundam Meister

So with the info on the spoilers how many characters will Ishibumi needs to power up to above Great Red/Ophis tier for Team DxD to stand a chance against the Invaders

Ise, Vali, Balberith

Others will get strong enough to take on Great Red level opponents when they are fighting together.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Gundam Meister

So with the info on the spoilers how many characters will Ishibumi needs to power up to above Great Red/Ophis tier for Team DxD to stand a chance against the Invaders

Surely Issei and Vali will be above that level, with Balberith who can reach the level.
If ishibumi has a logic or coherence, only them have the potential to become It. But The team DxD is not fondamental for the invasion, the longinus users and super devils are necessary to have a sperance like Kanzaki said.

The major part of Team DxD is ultimate/high class, with a few exceptions. Considering that except for the longinus users and arthur, only a few can reach the maou class that is the limit.

Probably the gods will fight together.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by OmegaWeaponZ

You seem to have misunderstood my example of a king and vassals to have been literal. Dukes for example, will also have vassals, generally less powerful lords in a specific area. Those vassals will also have their own knights(if they're large enough), so the idea of a vassal's vassals applies in this example too.

Currently, while Issei is a "Special Class" he is still not "Maou class", so while he is of a high position, correct me if I'm wrong, but has it been explicitly stated that Special class is above Ultimate, and not just namesake to show the uniqueness of his current scenario? Being a Transcendental has no bearing either, since that is a class purely to indicate individual strength.

While you're right that all this will eventually become moot, the point of this discussion is to discuss the implications of the peerage set up at this point in time of the story. With the "breakdown" of DxD, I would look at all implications when speculating about future plot lines (Though that's just me, and I doubt Ishibumi could go very dark with the story... I hope.)

The definition of special class is this: the “Special-class Devil” is a new class without any precedents, is awarded to those who have appropriate abilities, both social and political influence.
In shin 3, when Ajuka mentioned the promotion for issei, the majority of the political devils thought that the ultimate classe was not enough for him.
Issei and Vali are not normal devils, for their power, influence and popolarity who is not adapt for an ultimate class. A their actions or word can change the world. For this reason they invented a new class, over to that, that acknowledge they like Special, different from every other devil, It is clearly that only the maous are over them.

If it was not different, they would have been promoted in ultimate class.

For the peerage, there will be forever a bond between the king and the servant who is now indipendent. But except for the RG, he has not more rules or order to follow obligatorily from the king. But is not a problem, because there are alway a lot of others authorities who have control on him (Agares, Grand King, maous). This should be a good point for the argument about the lost of power

[godz]

if we take dxd EX as a reference, we know that the war has been going on for 30 years and because of it the rating game is suspended ... therefore the current issei and vali may not yet reach the Great Red level.

[Malbolge]

Originally Posted by godz

if we take dxd EX as a reference, we know that the war has been going on for 30 years and because of it the rating game is suspended ... therefore the current issei and vali may not yet reach the Great Red level.

The future as seen in EX is already unreliable due to butterfly effect shenanigans. The invasion right now is not supposed to be happening.

Issei obtaining AxA when and how he did was stated to be a direct consequence of the events of EX. The timeline has accelerated.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by godz

if we take dxd EX as a reference, we know that the war has been going on for 30 years and because of it the rating game is suspended ... therefore the current issei and vali may not yet reach the Great Red level.

we know only that it will starts in 30 years from now, its name is “the malevolent god war” and is occurring. being a war, is not something that you finish in a few months.
Even because if Vali and Issei are not over dragon God level, with the arrive of all the gods of ExE, they would be destroyed.

[AzazelDxD]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

I think Bennia will be on the Shin Volume 5 cover and Ravel will be on the DX6 cover. Because I believe that Ravel may have some minor importance in DX6 if Ishibumi puts Ruval vs Typhon in there.

I think that Tannin may be on Diehauser's team in his match against Iasei. As I could see Tannin asking to be on Diehauser's team solely for that match so he could see Bova's progress. And I think Bova and Ouryuu will defeat him together.

I think we're going to see a confrontation in the match between Diehauser and Roygun.

Bennia has 2 images in color. The people knows her appearance. She can wait a little more.

Now that you are mentioning Belial Rating Game... Probably the best is one ROYGUN cover to SHIN 5.

Anyway.. Miyama is sick now apparently.. Maybe is one bad idea..

[n0m@n]

Well, the death of Great Red was really unexpected this volume. But the appearance of invaders from ExE this early wasn't. Like people said, they were supposed to appear first 30 years from the current timeline if we go with EX story. We had the the discussion about it on DxD skype group chat years ago when EX came out.

We all know that Ishibumi is a otaku and one of the series he's very fond of and which he had used as a homage/parody was dragon ball. The whole EX story was a nod to how Future Trunks came to the current timeline and how the current timeline of Dragon Ball changed drastically than the Future Trunks timeline because of it. The chapter where Ajuka talks with Azazel and others does mention how no matter how minimal you keep the history as it supposed to be due to that time altering incident, you can't make it as if nothing happened.

Though this whole multiple universe reminds me of the world of Slayer as well.

Since we did get a rough info of how strong the Three Gods and their primes are, it feels like the strength of primes are pure Mathematics (simple ratios and division in terms of power of the primes). Feels like all 3 Gods had the same number of points (example each had 1000 points) and they just distributed those points to determine the strength of their primes. Regalzeva who distributed those points evenly to his two primes so they both have a Great Red-tier powers. And Melvazoa who gave more than half of those points (example 600 points out of 1000) to his highest pillar prime to have him be more powerful than Great-Red and the two primes of Regalzeva, and remaining points to his other 6 primes where they are about Chief-God class.

I mentioned about Slayers earlier and one of the worlds (main world) had these entities that were the subordinates of the demon-lord of their world. And they were able to create their own direct subordinates and distribute the strength of their own subordinates depending on the number of them. The less subordinates you create, the more powerful they were since their power are distributed depending on the number of them.

It's good that there seems to be a logic/rule on how powerful the primes of the three evil Gods of ExE are as well. And also the primes of those primes has the same rule/logic applied as well.

[Hakai]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Since we did get a rough info of how strong the Three Gods and their primes are, it feels like the strength of primes are pure Mathematics (simple ratios and division in terms of power of the primes). Feels like all 3 Gods had the same number of points (example each had 1000 points) and they just distributed those points to determine the strength of their primes. Regalzeva who distributed those points evenly to his two primes so they both have a Great Red-tier powers. And Melvazoa who gave more than half of those points (example 600 points out of 1000) to his highest pillar prime to have him be more powerful than Great-Red and the two primes of Regalzeva, and remaining points to his other 6 primes where they are about Chief-God class.

That's a very interesting take on the strength of the primes. Makes a lot of sense.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by n0m@n

Well, the death of Great Red was really unexpected this volume. But the appearance of invaders from ExE this early wasn't. Like people said, they were supposed to appear first 30 years from the current timeline if we go with EX story. We had the the discussion about it on DxD skype group chat years ago when EX came out.

We all know that Ishibumi is a otaku and one of the series he's very fond of and which he had used as a homage/parody was dragon ball. The whole EX story was a nod to how Future Trunks came to the current timeline and how the current timeline of Dragon Ball changed drastically than the Future Trunks timeline because of it. The chapter where Ajuka talks with Azazel and others does mention how no matter how minimal you keep the history as it supposed to be due to that time altering incident, you can't make it as if nothing happened.

Though this whole multiple universe reminds me of the world of Slayer as well.

Since we did get a rough info of how strong the Three Gods and their primes are, it feels like the strength of primes are pure Mathematics (simple ratios and division in terms of power of the primes). Feels like all 3 Gods had the same number of points (example each had 1000 points) and they just distributed those points to determine the strength of their primes. Regalzeva who distributed those points evenly to his two primes so they both have a Great Red-tier powers. And Melvazoa who gave more than half of those points (example 600 points out of 1000) to his highest pillar prime to have him be more powerful than Great-Red and the two primes of Regalzeva, and remaining points to his other 6 primes where they are about Chief-God class.

I mentioned about Slayers earlier and one of the worlds (main world) had these entities that were the subordinates of the demon-lord of their world. And they were able to create their own direct subordinates and distribute the strength of their own subordinates depending on the number of them. The less subordinates you create, the more powerful they were since their power are distributed depending on the number of them.

It's good that there seems to be a logic/rule on how powerful the primes of the three evil Gods of ExE are as well. And also the primes of those primes has the same rule/logic applied as well.

Although it said that the Ragou Shichiyou in EX were as strong as each mythology's chief god, in a Shin Volume 4 spoiler it said they were as strong as the Supreme god in each faction. I take 'supreme god' as meaning the absolute strongest gods in each faction like the Trimurti, Indra, Thor, Vidar, and Hades who are all beings in the Top 10.

Unless 'supreme god' equates to the same as 'chief god.'

But yeah it feels like Regalzerva decided to invest his points into less underlings while giving them more power. While Melvazoa has way more underlings than Regalzerva but their power is overall less than Regalzerva's underlings despite having the advantage in numbers. Except for the strongest member of the Ragou Shichiyou, Regalzerva's underlings are individually more powerful.

@AzazelDxD I doubt we get a cover with Roygun before we get an actual illustration with her. There's a good chance we'll get a colored illustration of her though.

[Le Fay]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

Although it said that the Ragou Shichiyou in EX were as strong as each mythology's chief god, in a Shin Volume 4 spoiler it said they were as strong as the Supreme god in each faction. I take 'supreme god' as meaning the absolute strongest gods in each faction like the Trimurti, Indra, Thor, Vidar, and Hades who are all beings in the Top 10.

No, shin 4 also states them to be Chief god level (except for the strongest one).

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Vergil Lucifer

Spoiler for for Life.END ending:

"Each of Regalzeva’s Prime what called “The Boundless Cosmos of Keito” has five powerful creatures they created, “Atrocity Fanatics” (written as "Five Evils") and they are different from Melvazoa's Prime “Seven Luminaries of Rago”, each of which has four powerful creatures they create, “Invading Fanatics”.
Compared with the strengths of planet Earth, the power of the two pillars of the “Boundless Cosmos of Keito” is comparable to the level of the Great Red, and the strength of “Atrocity Fanatics” varies from Satan class up to Chief Gods of all mythologies. As for the strength of the seven pillars of the "Seven Luminaries of Rago", their number one is stronger than Great Red, and the remaining six are comparable to the supreme gods of all mythologies. The strength of their Prime, "Invading Fanatics", varies from the Satan class to Dragon King class.
And finally, the power of the three evil gods of "ExE", including the "Invincible Devastator" Regalzeva, far surpasses them all.
Chapter ends by words: "Absolute Despair...begins" "]

It says 'supreme god' right there, not chief god.

@noman Could you possibly confirm this?

[godz]

The chief gods must be level by example Zeus or Odin, while the top 10 are above even the same kings of their mythologies as we saw in hades.

[Le Fay]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

It says 'supreme god' right there, not chief god.

@noman Could you possibly confirm this?

It's merely a translation thing. And "Keito Tenkai" is more like "The Sky and the sea/ocean of Ketu", rather than “The Boundless Cosmos of Keito”.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Le Fay

It's merely a translation thing. And "Keito Tenkai" is more like "The Sky and the sea/ocean of Ketu", rather than “The Boundless Cosmos of Keito”.

Thank you. Just wanted to clear that up.

[bluestahli1]

These Aliens maybe strong but their titles are pretty nice.

[OmegaWeaponZ]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

When you read Slash Dog, it really confirms this fact. He mentioned it in one of his first Afterwords. I think it was DxD Volume 1. I couldn't believe it either until I read Slash Dog as it is very horror-esque in a way.

Damn, its been so long since I read volume 1 that it might have slipped my mind then. Really been wanting to read Slash Dog for a while. Maybe I should move that up the 'ol backlog.

Originally Posted by godz

Angels deserve power up, I say they may no longer have God but they need to increase their strength.
the fallen, however, as Azazel says, have already resigned themselves to extinction.

Agreed. One idea that could, potentially, be a quick and effective power up is if the suits actually have an added effect based on the class they were based on. So for those unaware, that should be Clergy for Hearts (Healers / Support), Merchants for Diamonds, Nobility for Clubs (Leaders / Tacticians) and Knights/Soldier for Spades (Combat).

Would be cool if Azazel finally gives up on not reincarnating people and introduces one, if only to bolster their forces slightly for the incoming war (Too many good members are still stuck as being human - along with the weakness that come with that). The Major / Minor Arcana? Shogi?

. . . But this is DxD. I should keep my expectations in check.

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

The definition of special class is this: the “Special-class Devil” is a new class without any precedents, is awarded to those who have appropriate abilities, both social and political influence.
In shin 3, when Ajuka mentioned the promotion for issei, the majority of the political devils thought that the ultimate classe was not enough for him.
Issei and Vali are not normal devils, for their power, influence and popolarity who is not adapt for an ultimate class. A their actions or word can change the world. For this reason they invented a new class, over to that, that acknowledge they like Special, different from every other devil, It is clearly that only the maous are over them.

You see, that reads as them being akin to glorified Idols from what I read from that, so again, that doesn't inherently mean that they are beyond Ultimate in social standing, just a "special" case, as the name would apply. Most likely we'll be getting more information on the implications of this position in future volumes, as it can never be as straight forward as it seems, considering the people in charge in the background. So this is all my preliminary thoughts.

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by OmegaWeaponZ

Damn, its been so long since I read volume 1 that it might have slipped my mind then. Really been wanting to read Slash Dog for a while. Maybe I should move that up the 'ol backlog.



Agreed. One idea that could, potentially, be a quick and effective power up is if the suits actually have an added effect based on the class they were based on. So for those unaware, that should be Clergy for Hearts (Healers / Support), Merchants for Diamonds, Nobility for Clubs (Leaders / Tacticians) and Knights/Soldier for Spades (Combat).

Would be cool if Azazel finally gives up on not reincarnating people and introduces one, if only to bolster their forces slightly for the incoming war (Too many good members are still stuck as being human - along with the weakness that come with that). The Major / Minor Arcana? Shogi?

. . . But this is DxD. I should keep my expectations in check.



You see, that reads as them being akin to glorified Idols from what I read from that, so again, that doesn't inherently mean that they are beyond Ultimate in social standing, just a "special" case, as the name would apply. Most likely we'll be getting more information on the implications of this position in future volumes, as it can never be as straight forward as it seems, considering the people in charge in the background. So this is all my preliminary thoughts.

The problem is that Ishibumi largely centers this series on the devils so there's only so much he can invest in angels and fallen angels. And not to mention that Heaven and the Church are two separate parts of the same whole and the human exorcists of the Church count as their forces. Same goes for the Sacred Gear possessors under Grigori.

The Brave Saints system is already a major power-up for the Heaven-Church side. The problem isn't that they are weak it's just that this is a series that almost exclusively focuses on the devils' side. And we're lucky if we get tidbits of any info about other factions besides the devils.

We really need a spin-off.