Shin High School DxD Volume 4 Discussion

[godz]

Le Fay has been living in the hyoudou residence since volume 14, Asia who was the shy, innocent and educated original blonde took only 6 volumes for Issei to see her naked, be more aggressive and steal a kiss.

And I use yasaka as an example, since other flirtatious characters from the issei harem took much longer to give their kisses ... and therefore with yasaka if they took advantage of its volume, with Le Fay it seemed a simple excuse for the new longinus user had a relationship with someone from the DxD team.

And Le Fay shows interest in issei from volume 15, even in 17 he was interested in dating him.

[B214]

Family background perhaps?

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Le Fay: kinda shy, very polite Kouhai that had almost 0 romantic development with Issei.

Yasaka: Seductive Milf that already had openly flirted with Issei.

It wouldn't be a problem if Issei saw LeFay naked in this vol, but it would be completely against her character if she all of a sudden decided to make a daring move on him like tongue kissing or letting him grope her. Her relationship with Issei should have being developed ever since a long time ago for her to be ok with doing those things.

This happens when you introduce too many girls in the harem, not Having enough time to develop all the girls. Especially when the story focuses always more in the fights.

[B214]

I'm personally hoping that Ishibumi temporarily remove some of the harem females and major supporting characters from the story like what he did with Sona. Too many characters close to Ise right now. I mean some of the females are already confirmed, maybe just put them off till near end of the story. Even for the increasing rivals, i think it would be nice to temporarily control the numbers a bit.

[Itsmepatrick]

Author needs to focus more on girls who were not given enough development and not introduce new girls for the time being.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Author needs to focus more on girls who were not given enough development and not introduce new girls for the time being.

You want the impossible

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Giuseppe1234

You want the impossible

for ishi that would be like seeing the invisible, like touching the untouchable

[Lucidrago]

Originally Posted by Itsmepatrick

Author needs to focus more on girls who were not given enough development and not introduce new girls for the time being.

This is Ishibumi we're talking about. He just introduced two new females in a short story. At least he seems aware that he is packing DxD with too many characters.

For example, what was the point of introducing BOTH Bova and Ouryuu to DxD. I can understand Ouryuu with him being a fellow student at Kuoh Academy and the heir of Nakiri. And with him kind of having this sort of rivalry with Gasper with him also being a junior that looked up to him.

While Bova just feels kind of pointless to add to the series and I really saw no good reason for Ishibumi to introduce him. Issei already had a connection to Tannin. And I really saw no point in Ishibumi giving Tannin sons. It just seems he wanted to introduce a named actual dragon that wasn't legendary that would look up to Issei. Ouryuu fills his role already(and is more powerful than him) and is actually kind of interesting.

And Ishibumi is basically treating Bova the same way he treated Xenovia in the beginning of the series.

@B214 Well we should have seen that coming when he gave Sona two unique servants like that. There was no way he could give Sona a Grim Reaper and a werewolf without some kind of catch. He was going to create some reason for Sona to trade those two over to Rias and Issei.

And it should have been obvious when he made Nimura interesting and the strongest female in the series.

Seems more like he removed Sona just so Rias could get her new rook and Issei could get his second knight without really having to introduce two new characters.

[Marvix]

I'm thinking there's still possibility of the person Sona originally wanted to add to her peerage appearing. They may go to Issei's, Rias' or Ravel's peerage.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by godz

Le Fay has been living in the hyoudou residence since volume 14, Asia who was the shy, innocent and educated original blonde took only 6 volumes for Issei to see her naked, be more aggressive and steal a kiss.

And I use yasaka as an example, since other flirtatious characters from the issei harem took much longer to give their kisses ... and therefore with yasaka if they took advantage of its volume, with Le Fay it seemed a simple excuse for the new longinus user had a relationship with someone from the DxD team.

And Le Fay shows interest in issei from volume 15, even in 17 he was interested in dating him.

Yes, LeFay was introduced since long ago, but she didn't get development to do those things. Asia in vol 6 kissed Issei, but in vol 1 to 5 she was developed to reach that point. Just because she showed interest into Issei, doesnt mean she would be comfortable getting naked and doing all types of things with a guy that she has little to no intimacy. Some girls are like that. Some girls are not like that.

My problem with LeFay is that she doesn't bring anything new to the harem, every single appeal that she have (blonde, short girl, magician girl, shy girl, polite girl, etc) several of the "main girls" also have. The only thing that would make her "special" is her pact with Issei, but that never gets developed either so... she is boring.

[Marvix]

She only got a tiny slither of romantic development in this volume.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Yes, LeFay was introduced since long ago, but she didn't get development to do those things. Asia in vol 6 kissed Issei, but in vol 1 to 5 she was developed to reach that point. Just because she showed interest into Issei, doesnt mean she would be comfortable getting naked and doing all types of things with a guy that she has little to no intimacy. Some girls are like that. Some girls are not like that.

you mean just like asia got naked because rias did? not so much shyness there, let alone how half the girls straight up jump into his bed or want to go straight to sex so why le fay getting bold too is bad? especially when she has kuroka has a friend

Originally Posted by Palmito

My problem with LeFay is that she doesn't bring anything new to the harem, every single appeal that she have (blonde, short girl, magician girl, shy girl, polite girl, etc) several of the "main girls" also have. The only thing that would make her "special" is her pact with Issei, but that never gets developed either so... she is boring.

dont remember any other magician girl tho, still i will say what many others said before me. issei needs a dark skinned girl, there is too much vanilla in this ice cream.

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

you mean just like asia got naked because rias did? not so much shyness there, let alone how half the girls straight up jump into his bed or want to go straight to sex so why le fay getting bold too is bad? especially when she has kuroka has a friend

dont remember any other magician girl tho, still i will say what many others said before me. issei needs a dark skinned girl, there is too much vanilla in this ice cream.

Sigh... it really is so difficult to understand the concept of "character development"? We really are going to act as if "blushing after seeing Issei without a shirt" to "letting him grope her anytime he wants" wasn't a process that took time? Really?

"half the girls straight up jump into his bed or want to go straight to sex so why le fay getting bold too is bad?"

Yes, HALF OF THE GIRLS. You have several examples of girls that didn't do that. Why would be bad? Because would be against her character. She is not like Kuroka. She is not daring. She is not seductive. She is way more similar to Asia in the beginning of the series. The difference is that Asia not only had tons of romantic development with Issei, but she also had Kiryu and Xenovia talking on her ear to become more assertive. Asia's character was developed from a shy girl, to a daring girl. But that took time, she didn't 100% change all of a sudden.

"dont remember any other magician girl tho,"

Rossweise?

[Blazor 98]

Originally Posted by Lucidrago

This is Ishibumi we're talking about. He just introduced two new females in a short story. At least he seems aware that he is packing DxD with too many characters.

For example, what was the point of introducing BOTH Bova and Ouryuu to DxD. I can understand Ouryuu with him being a fellow student at Kuoh Academy and the heir of Nakiri. And with him kind of having this sort of rivalry with Gasper with him also being a junior that looked up to him.

While Bova just feels kind of pointless to add to the series and I really saw no good reason for Ishibumi to introduce him. Issei already had a connection to Tannin. And I really saw no point in Ishibumi giving Tannin sons. It just seems he wanted to introduce a named actual dragon that wasn't legendary that would look up to Issei. Ouryuu fills his role already(and is more powerful than him) and is actually kind of interesting.

And Ishibumi is basically treating Bova the same way he treated Xenovia in the beginning of the series.

@B214 Well we should have seen that coming when he gave Sona two unique servants like that. There was no way he could give Sona a Grim Reaper and a werewolf without some kind of catch. He was going to create some reason for Sona to trade those two over to Rias and Issei.

And it should have been obvious when he made Nimura interesting and the strongest female in the series.

Seems more like he removed Sona just so Rias could get her new rook and Issei could get his second knight without really having to introduce two new characters.

How was Xenovia treated in the beginning of the series similar to how Bova is currently treated?

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Sigh... it really is so difficult to understand the concept of "character development"? We really are going to act as if "blushing after seeing Issei without a shirt" to "letting him grope her anytime he wants" wasn't a process that took time? Really?

"half the girls straight up jump into his bed or want to go straight to sex so why le fay getting bold too is bad?"

Yes, HALF OF THE GIRLS. You have several examples of girls that didn't do that. Why would be bad? Because would be against her character. She is not like Kuroka. She is not daring. She is not seductive. She is way more similar to Asia in the beginning of the series. The difference is that Asia not only had tons of romantic development with Issei, but she also had Kiryu and Xenovia talking on her ear to become more assertive. Asia's character was developed from a shy girl, to a daring girl. But that took time, she didn't 100% change all of a sudden.

"dont remember any other magician girl tho,"

Rossweise?

and are we going to pretend that asia wasnt wearing nothing but an apron in just two volumes? all whit off-screen "development"? oh but that is fine because aika but when i mention kuroka being there its not fine. asia didn't get any "development", she was told off-screen to do it and she suddenly is 100% fine whit it but if le fay after like 10+ volumes is willing to do the same then it makes no sense

asia was not daring nor seductive, from volume 2 to 3 she was wearing a naked apron because someone told her, she was sleeping on the same bed hell back in volume 2 she was completely fine whit having a bath whit issei. there were not "tons of romantic development", she simply jumped from one characterization to another because something supposedly happened off-screen

rossweisse was as much of a "magician" as any magic user though? i thought we were talking appearance-wise

[Wellington]

What is the True-Dragon Deification strength level? Can anyone tell me?

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

and are we going to pretend that asia wasnt wearing nothing but an apron in just two volumes? all whit off-screen "development"? oh but that is fine because aika but when i mention kuroka being there its not fine. asia didn't get any "development", she was told off-screen to do it and she suddenly is 100% fine whit it but if le fay after like 10+ volumes is willing to do the same then it makes no sense

asia was not daring nor seductive, from volume 2 to 3 she was wearing a naked apron because someone told her, she was sleeping on the same bed hell back in volume 2 she was completely fine whit having a bath whit issei. there were not "tons of romantic development", she simply jumped from one characterization to another because something supposedly happened off-screen

rossweisse was as much of a "magician" as any magic user though? i thought we were talking appearance-wise

Ok, here we go.

What was the motivation for Asia to change herself?

1- She realised that around Issei was girls (more especifically Rias) that easily could appeal to Issei more than her. That created a type of rivalry beetwen her and the girls (again more especifically Rias).

2- She had other characters clearly pushing her to change (Aika, Xenovia).

All of this is development and motivation for a character to change herself. In 10+ vol LeFay didn't have any of that. In 10+ vol never was hinted that LeFay was unsatisfied with her current relationship with Issei, and that she wanted to improve herself to appeal to him more (but that happened with Asia). In 10+ vol we never saw LeFay getting advice about make up and sexy underwear to try to impress Issei (but we saw Asia doing all of this).

All of this made her change gradually. First with the naked apron, then sleeping together, taking baths together, and etc. But the point is, it took time for her kiss to happen, and for her to be fine doing lewd things. I never say that would be bad if Issei saw LeFay naked. What i say, is that would be against her character if she all of a sudden became bold and kiss him, do lewd things with him, etc. She is not the type of girl that would let a guy that she has little intimacy fondle her. Kuroka would. LeFay does not have the same personality as Kuroka. She needs to do things gradually. First seeing her naked, then sleeping together, then a bath, etc. Look at Rossweise. In vol 9 Issei saw her naked, in vol 17 he took a bath with her and did go on a date with her. And then in vol 25 he sleeps with her and finally kiss her. Do you understand now? You are completely misunderstanding what i say. It would be weird for LeFay to make a big change all of a sudden, because this "change" is not something that has been hinted.

Why your example of Kuroka is not the same as Aika? Kuroka was not in any moment pushing LeFay to be more seductive. Aika was.

And yes, compared to LeFay and Issei's relationship development in the whole story, Asia's and Issei relationship development in vol 1 was "a ton of romantic development". Just based on what happened in vol 1 Asia has a wayyy better reason to fall in love with Issei than LeFay.

"rossweisse was as much of a "magician" as any magic user though? i thought we were talking appearance-wise"

Yeah, you thought wrong.

[Giuseppe1234]

Originally Posted by Wellington

What is the True-Dragon Deification strength level? Can anyone tell me?

Always the level of a heavenly dragon for now.

[saucerKing]

Originally Posted by Palmito

Ok, here we go.

What was the motivation for Asia to change herself?

1- She realised that around Issei was girls (more especifically Rias) that easily could appeal to Issei more than her. That created a type of rivalry beetwen her and the girls (again more especifically Rias).

2- She had other characters clearly pushing her to change (Aika, Xenovia).

All of this is development and motivation for a character to change herself. In 10+ vol LeFay didn't have any of that. In 10+ vol never was hinted that LeFay was unsatisfied with her current relationship with Issei, and that she wanted to improve herself to appeal to him more (but that happened with Asia). In 10+ vol we never saw LeFay getting advice about make up and sexy underwear to try to impress Issei (but we saw Asia doing all of this).

All of this made her change gradually. First with the naked apron, then sleeping together, taking baths together, and etc. But the point is, it took time for her kiss to happen, and for her to be fine doing lewd things. I never say that would be bad if Issei saw LeFay naked. What i say, is that would be against her character if she all of a sudden became bold and kiss him, do lewd things with him, etc. She is not the type of girl that would let a guy that she has little intimacy fondle her. Kuroka would. LeFay does not have the same personality as Kuroka. She needs to do things gradually. First seeing her naked, then sleeping together, then a bath, etc. Look at Rossweise. In vol 9 Issei saw her naked, in vol 17 he took a bath with her and did go on a date with her. And then in vol 25 he sleeps with her and finally kiss her. Do you understand now? You are completely misunderstanding what i say. It would be weird for LeFay to make a big change all of a sudden, because this "change" is not something that has been hinted.

Why your example of Kuroka is not the same as Aika? Kuroka was not in any moment pushing LeFay to be more seductive. Aika was.

And yes, compared to LeFay and Issei's relationship development in the whole story, Asia's and Issei relationship development in vol 1 was "a ton of romantic development". Just based on what happened in vol 1 Asia has a wayyy better reason to fall in love with Issei than LeFay.

"rossweisse was as much of a "magician" as any magic user though? i thought we were talking appearance-wise"

Yeah, you thought wrong.

1. and there is no such thing whit le fay, there clearly are no girls around issei nope sir.

2. literally volume 3, before she and xenovia became friends she got into a naked apron because a character off-screen told her to. again there was not 10+ volumes of development there, at best one and a half but somehow when i ask that le fay get half of the development asia got in one volume that is "rushing it". stop pretending it took 10 volumes for asia to get bold, she was already doing it by volume 3, how is le fay getting a god damn kiss more bold than asia literally showing him her naked ass?

this is the first time i see someone saying a kiss is more intimate than taking a bath together, a naked apron, sleeping together etc. no, really do you think that the whole naked apron thing is somehow more bold than a freaking kiss?

aika did so off-screen on the same volume she was introduced, kuroka and le fay have been living together in issei house for more than one volume so again why couldn't kuroka do the same as aika off-screen? because you sure are acting like there was a lot of foreshadowing when in truth it was asia suddenly in a naked apron saying "aika told me to do it", there was 0 build up, just she suddenly did it.

issei and le fay have been together for enough time for her to develop feelings considering kuroka did too beyond "i want your babies". again, i guess if something happens off-screen during like 10+ volumes is not fine whit le fay but if asia suddenly goes full bold during the course of half a volume is fine, nice double standards there

[Palmito]

Originally Posted by saucerKing

1. and there is no such thing whit le fay, there clearly are no girls around issei nope sir.

2. literally volume 3, before she and xenovia became friends she got into a naked apron because a character off-screen told her to. again there was not 10+ volumes of development there, at best one and a half but somehow when i ask that le fay get half of the development asia got in one volume that is "rushing it". stop pretending it took 10 volumes for asia to get bold, she was already doing it by volume 3, how is le fay getting a god damn kiss more bold than asia literally showing him her naked ass?

this is the first time i see someone saying a kiss is more intimate than taking a bath together, a naked apron, sleeping together etc. no, really do you think that the whole naked apron thing is somehow more bold than a freaking kiss?

aika did so off-screen on the same volume she was introduced, kuroka and le fay have been living together in issei house for more than one volume so again why couldn't kuroka do the same as aika off-screen? because you sure are acting like there was a lot of foreshadowing when in truth it was asia suddenly in a naked apron saying "aika told me to do it", there was 0 build up, just she suddenly did it.

issei and le fay have been together for enough time for her to develop feelings considering kuroka did too beyond "i want your babies". again, i guess if something happens off-screen during like 10+ volumes is not fine whit le fay but if asia suddenly goes full bold during the course of half a volume is fine, nice double standards there

Here we go again.

1- I think here you are implying that the same thing happened with LeFay? If this is what you are saying then prove it. It was never showed that LeFay had a strong feeling of rivalry against her "senpais" like Asia clearly showed in the beginning of the series.

2- Here you literally says that Asia got other character pushing her to change, but still dont accept that the same thing didn't happen with LeFay.

"this is the first time i see someone saying a kiss is more intimate than taking a bath together, a naked apron, sleeping together etc. no, really do you think that the whole naked apron thing is somehow more bold than a freaking kiss?"

I assumed that you readed the LN. It seems you didn't. Every single girl in the harem thinks that a Kiss is something that not only is more intimate, but also shows way more progress in their relationship with Issei, then just getting naked or taking a bath with Issei. In vol 24 the girls get jealous of Kuroka kissing Issei but they dont actually mind Issei getting surrounded by several naked woman on the bath. Rias is the perfect example of that, she gets naked in front of Issei in vol 1 like its not a big deal, but she says that her first kiss is something really important to her. Rossweisse was fine taking a bath with Issei in vol 17, but she wasn't ready to kiss him just yet. Issei literally saw every single one of them naked easily, but their relationship clearly develop more for them to actually kiss. Logically speaking it should be the other way around, first the kiss, then getting naked, but this is how DxD works.


"aika did so off-screen on the same volume she was introduced, kuroka and le fay have been living together in issei house for more than one volume so again why couldn't kuroka do the same as aika off-screen? because you sure are acting like there was a lot of foreshadowing when in truth it was asia suddenly in a naked apron saying "aika told me to do it", there was 0 build up, just she suddenly did it."

Why Kuroka couldn't do the same thing off-screen? She could. But guess what? SHE DIDN'T. And LeFay is not nearly as innocent as Asia. Just because Kuroka would say it, does not mean she would do it. And i already explained that it wasn't just Aika but also the whole build up of Asia's rivalry with Rias that made her move and try to be more bold.

"issei and le fay have been together for enough time for her to develop feelings considering kuroka did too beyond "i want your babies". again, i guess if something happens off-screen during like 10+ volumes is not fine whit le fay but if asia suddenly goes full bold during the course of half a volume is fine, nice double standards there"

No no no. Kuroka also have the whole situation with Koneko that helped her develop feelings for Issei. And again you (conveniently) misunderstand one thing and try to act as if i said that. Asia didn't suddenly go full bold. There was clearly a motivation/reason behind her acts. You literally are saying that the whole development that Asia got with Issei between vol 1 and 6 (just friends level, to kissing level), would be fine for LeFay to have it all off-screen. Do you understand what you are saying? You are basically asking for bad writing.