(L) Kaguya-sama wa kokurasetai

[Tactics]

Its not the result.

The moment Iino win the favor author pretty much signed paper that conflict doesn't matter because everyone can win without trying.
I believe I repeated it several times during Ishigami Bowl. I'm not into supporting Iino because solution to her issues more or less come to her on silver platter;
Her debate manageable because Miyuki and Kaguya pity her, Tsubame walked out and Ishigami past got retcon to facilitate her presence, Kaguya dislike her attitude following the outcome but nullified by "Miyuki successor", then there's this mysterious old man who somehow good enough to teach her playing games. Bonus, somehow its Ishigami fault whenever Iino in difficulty also her friend with glasses now took all the blame.

The final arc is worrisome; I expected Mikado to help made it even field because confronting Oko is impossible.
Now what happened? Suddenly there's middle child out of nowhere who genius enough to gave billion to Miyuki, Mikado throwing the towel under looking the sky pose that would win him trivia section in wiki with "this pose is similar to pose he did after deal with Oko"; Oko once again took final boss mantle as he frustrated about inheritance distributions, that doesn't make sense considering his influence extended to Seiryu.

I'm not surprised if by end Ganan will is simply Kaguya is free to choose what she wanted to do, maybe some kind of one absolute order ticket from Ganan, with Shijo and Shinomiya conflict ended up non-existent because Mikado said so.

[Zolton]

At the rate it's going, the arc will end with Kaguya as the new family head.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Its not the result.

The moment Iino win the favor author pretty much signed paper that conflict doesn't matter because everyone can win without trying.
I believe I repeated it several times during Ishigami Bowl. I'm not into supporting Iino because solution to her issues more or less come to her on silver platter;
Her debate manageable because Miyuki and Kaguya pity her, Tsubame walked out and Ishigami past got retcon to facilitate her presence, Kaguya dislike her attitude following the outcome but nullified by "Miyuki successor", then there's this mysterious old man who somehow good enough to teach her playing games. Bonus, somehow its Ishigami fault whenever Iino in difficulty also her friend with glasses now took all the blame.

The final arc is worrisome; I expected Mikado to help made it even field because confronting Oko is impossible.
Now what happened? Suddenly there's middle child out of nowhere who genius enough to gave billion to Miyuki, Mikado throwing the towel under looking the sky pose that would win him trivia section in wiki with "this pose is similar to pose he did after deal with Oko"; Oko once again took final boss mantle as he frustrated about inheritance distributions, that doesn't make sense considering his influence extended to Seiryu.

I'm not surprised if by end Ganan will is simply Kaguya is free to choose what she wanted to do, maybe some kind of one absolute order ticket from Ganan, with Shijo and Shinomiya conflict ended up non-existent because Mikado said so.

OK, I'm not going to try and debate Miko's arc again. Besides it wasn't my point. I'll agree that, while I felt some were a little too critical a little too much of the time, as a whole it could've been done better. It certainly wasn't the most consistent or satisfying path to my ship sailing. But I wasn't commenting on people's opinions of that arc.

My point was that people had started saying this was crap well before it, the moment Tsubame dumped Ishigami, and to this day every time I think they'd quit I see another repeat of "the author clearly demonstrated he wouldn't be subverting things anymore the moment the thing I wanted to happen that this character was desperately trying to make happen didn't happen".

And of course, some people are way too fixated on subversion anyway. To the point that they're insisting that the story should be a "Shoot the Shaggy Dog" story where the heroes work long and hard to win only for everything to fail, all because these commenters don't like things currently and because "oh, how UNEXPECTED!" Never mind that up to this point the author's subversions were never that kind of spiteful or unpleasant. Most cars on a mountain road won't turn to drive off a steep cliff. That doesn't mean that there's any kind of worth to anyone turning there.

Lastly, I don't think it'd be possible at this point for Ganan to be able to say or do anything on the level of giving orders or establishing legal status. As he himself said, it'd be too easy for lawyers to have any such declarations thrown out on grounds of diminished capacity. Only thing that might work would be if he asked for a DNA test and it proved Kaguya isn't really his biological daughter, erasing her ties to the Shinomiya family. Aside from that, he simply can't make any sort of legal actions to free her.

[Sixth]

This chapter is so cringeworthy. Have a great difficulty to read it to the end.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

My point was that people had started saying this was crap well before it, the moment Tsubame dumped Ishigami, and to this day every time I think they'd quit I see another repeat of "the author clearly demonstrated he wouldn't be subverting things anymore the moment the thing I wanted to happen that this character was desperately trying to make happen didn't happen".

And of course, some people are way too fixated on subversion anyway. To the point that they're insisting that the story should be a "Shoot the Shaggy Dog" story where the heroes work long and hard to win only for everything to fail, all because these commenters don't like things currently and because "oh, how UNEXPECTED!" Never mind that up to this point the author's subversions were never that kind of spiteful or unpleasant. Most cars on a mountain road won't turn to drive off a steep cliff. That doesn't mean that there's any kind of worth to anyone turning there.

First half of this series relies on subversion to do comedy.

Is it wise to blame other readers for expecting later arc executed nicely in series with fairly well-written arc like Ishigami School Festival and Rap for Hayasaka?
Even to this arc there's effort for subversion as you can see from what you consider totally-made-sense Seiryu only for Ganan in two chapter later calling him idiot. Now you have Mikado throwing towel not more than five chapter after his declaration of war aside of watching yakuza right hand man silenced by high schoolers.

I knew Shinomiya family mentioned as traditionalist but spending an arc reasoning why Kaguya didn't deserve status with "B-because she's a female!" is pathetic. Especially when five chapters before author could come up with wall of texts for this character explaining how Shinomiya family is in danger if conflict with Shijo became war of attrition. What else explanations for this other than favoring Oshi no Ko? Is it wrong to say "I'm not into posting spoiler again until I saw signs that author put more effort for what supposed to be final arc?"

The complaint are considerably civil too. Its not like any of us forced you to think the same, just expressing dissatisfaction.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Tactics

First half of this series relies on subversion to do comedy.

Is it wise to blame other readers for expecting later arc executed nicely in series with fairly well-written arc like Ishigami School Festival and Rap for Hayasaka?
Even to this arc there's effort for subversion as you can see from what you consider totally-made-sense Seiryu only for Ganan in two chapter later calling him idiot. Now you have Mikado throwing towel not more than five chapter after his declaration of war aside of watching yakuza right hand man silenced by high schoolers.

I knew Shinomiya family mentioned as traditionalist but spending an arc reasoning why Kaguya didn't deserve status with "B-because she's a female!" is pathetic. Especially when five chapters before author could come up with wall of texts for this character explaining how Shinomiya family is in danger if conflict with Shijo became war of attrition. What else explanations for this other than favoring Oshi no Ko? Is it wrong to say "I'm not into posting spoiler again until I saw signs that author put more effort for what supposed to be final arc?"

The complaint are considerably civil too. Its not like any of us forced you to think the same, just expressing dissatisfaction.

I did not say that the series wasn't growing less consistent. I even admitted that, while I was happy my ship sailed, I would agree that it wasn't exactly a well-executed launch. More like that scene in Galaxy Quest where the guy launches the ship for the first time and can't get it to stop drifting and scraping noisily against the port walls. I don't think things are quite as bad as some say, but I do admit that it's not what it once was. It's still at a point where I like it and feel that some aspects are pretty good, but I accept that it's changed, and understand if some don't like it anymore. Maybe because of ONK, maybe because of the same thing that happens with lots of authors: the story went a little longer than he was really able to handle, and he started getting stuck on how to get things where he wanted them to go. Part of the reason I generally prefer series with less than ten volumes.

But my point was not these recent arcs, it was the way that people tended to repeatedly go a fair way back to insist that the author just stopped trying at an arc that was, in my opinion, fairly well made just because it didn't go the way they wanted it to go. And the way that they did so repeatedly. In the past there'd been pages-long debates about it, and still anytime I start to forget someone once more comes back and insists "yeah, that's right, this sucks and it has sucked since X happened".

As for the subversion, I agree that subversion had been a big part of the comedy in much of the story. And I didn't mean to suggest that I have a problem with anyone not wanting to stick with this when it isn't quite the same as it had been in the past. I was only saying that there's a difference between having things go in a surprising direction for originality or comedic effect and expecting things to go so far off the rails that it stops making sense or ruins things it'd built up. Mourning the lack of jokes and scenes that subvert expectations I completely understand. Saying that the author should have everything he'd built up to now crash and burn because it'd be "unexpected" is absurd in my opinion.

[Kuroageha]

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

I. Saying that the author should have everything he'd built up to now crash and burn because it'd be "unexpected" is absurd in my opinion.

You should reread my post because you have quite the taste to come up with whole new scenarios.
Hint: I was talking about ONK

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

You should reread my post because you have quite the taste to come up with whole new scenarios.
Hint: I was talking about ONK

I wasn’t talking about you actually on that point. Back some time ago someone had said that the story should end with Kaguya actually getting married to her family’s choice and acted like it would be good because it’s subversive. Recently Accelerator suggested that they should just have Kaguya get disowned, which might still be a path and honestly I’d be behind but would require some gymnastics to make work. There are just some points where it felt like various individuals were taking the subversion idea to the point of what tv tropes calls “shoot the shaggy dog”. As I said, there are limits to how far subversion can be taken and keep what’s good about as story.

[Sixth]

Just read OnK latest chapter. Damn, the quality between these 2 chapters are huge.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Tactics

Is it wrong to say "I'm not into posting spoiler again until I saw signs that author put more effort for what supposed to be final arc?"

While I'd say it's not wrong to express dissatisfaction if that's how you feel, I think the nature of the threat is, at best, puzzling.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

While I'd say it's not wrong to express dissatisfaction if that's how you feel, I think the nature of the threat is, at best, puzzling.

I'm talking about what Winged thought; nothing threatening about that here, you get used to it.



Honestly for something promoted to be final arc, its all over the place. Oko personality is bleak, Seiryu constantly tripping, Mikado surrender ASAP.
Disowning Kaguya indeed is the best solution to it and actually doesn't require mental gymnastic. With current development (which I believe people not give a damn about Shijo anymore LOL) she only need to come to Oko and told him to call the lawyers, for that she's willing to gave up her inheritance in favor of future with Miyuki (who already got billions from Seiryu and a disowned Hayasaka). Done.

She's third student with highest grade after Mikado and Miyuki. She can easily aim for scholarship too; Ukyo would be more than willing supporting her from shadow.

[BWTraveller]

Honestly, while I agree that this arc does seem at least a bit more haphazardly set up than a lot of the earlier stuff, I don't think it's odd that Mikado was quick to give up. I don't really think he intended to put up a fight here. He knew that the both of them not only loved each other but were open about that love and willing to fight for it. He phrased it a bit like a challenge, but really he just wanted to confirm that they were going to go for this and offer himself as a safety net. It's a pity, in some ways he reminds me of a character I loved from a series that has frequently made me just as eager to express my disappointment. If he'd actually been here throughout I might have found it hard to say who I support.

[WingedAccelerator]

We knew that Mikado would ultimately fold. The issue is forcing the fake foil, threat on the readers or the main couple last minute, because there really isn't any for the involved characters. So it just ends anticlimactically among many other things in this arc.

About Gan'an's secret room and safe, if it's going to be solved with another Kaguya/Nayotake specific memory, I will be pissed.

[AP24]

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...ubplot/.184110

Maybe it should happen

[Diluc]

While this is good things someone brought out this to Aka i don't understand why ANN covering this.... This is errr trivial issue.

[Kuroageha]

Top late for her to ask that.

[Kanon]

But she does have a romance subplot with Hayasaka now

[WingedAccelerator]

Originally Posted by Diluc

While this is good things someone brought out this to Aka i don't understand why ANN covering this.... This is errr trivial issue.

Season 3 starts in 2 weeks, so ANN probably wanted to cover this trivial issue as another reminder used for that fact.

By the way, there is that specific chapter that ends with the lesbian ship joke with Hayasaka, the chapter where Fujiwara brings up this exact problem of lacking a romantic partner, so I wonder if Kohara was unaware of that chapter existing or made her statement exactly because Fujiwara were turned to a joke even on the romantic side of things.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by WingedAccelerator

Season 3 starts in 2 weeks, so ANN probably wanted to cover this trivial issue as another reminder used for that fact.

By the way, there is that specific chapter that ends with the lesbian ship joke with Hayasaka, the chapter where Fujiwara brings up this exact problem of lacking a romantic partner, so I wonder if Kohara was unaware of that chapter existing or made her statement exactly because Fujiwara were turned to a joke even on the romantic side of things.

She likely unaware of that. Due to their scheduling VA rarely follow manga past material used for recent anime project unless there's demand for high attention to source material, example like Hiroshi Kamiya who read Attack on Titan (Levi) and Monogatari (Araragi) series thoroughly being his long-running job with strong emphasis to story and narration.

Considering material adapted for S3, clearly its point where even people here can guess that Iino will be paired with Ishigami. I can see Kohara just read the S3 material and feel need to mention that Fujiwara is the only person without any student council member pair unlike the other two pairs.

[WingedAccelerator]

Why did I have to call it? -_-"

Spoiler for Chapter 258:

Hayasaka creates a diversion, Kaguya escapes.

Of fucking course, as a baby in a cradle, she was once in that secret room with Nayotake and Gan'an around. I guess she saw the Moon's position from the cradle as a baby, which was seen from a window and now in the present located the secret house based on that position which she remembered. A narration follows about how good of a memory she has and her personal memories in general be it good or bad, connecting with others.

She reaches the house, gets the will, but Oko caught up to her since he decided to follow her. Another round of misogyny and kids vs. adults follows, then before Oko can reach Kaguya, Ishigami steps in to grab his hand. A better ship than Kaguya and Miyuki.

Ishigami's present was a smarttag, so they tracked down Kaguya. He sneaks in a Discord wank comment, where he shared the information. Oko is still about the mere kids being no threat, but then Un'yo also arrives and breaks it down to him that he basically lost with no allies left and the outdated Shinomiya way of thinking is over. Oko seems to start leaving being butthurt in the process.