Dragon Ball Super (Manga)

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Goku kicking Gas' ass with an infinitely weaker form than the one he was getting his ass kicked in five minutes earlier makes no sense. At least Toyotaro hasn't retconned it has a time limit.

Goku wasn't in the proper mindset to use Ultra Instinct to its fullest throughout this entire arc anyway, so I can buy that part.

[GDB]

Spoiler for Super Heroes movie:

I half suspect moving Goku away from the white UI is because of Gohan's new form.

Get ready for new yellow hair form. Not to be confused with golden haired super saiyan. No, this will be a new UI form that's Goku specific!

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Goku wasn't in the proper mindset to use Ultra Instinct to its fullest throughout this entire arc anyway, so I can buy that part.

He was perfectly fine in his fight against Granolah, just got one-shot because suddenly MUI had a major weakness.

Simply being able to access the form means he's in the right state of mind. He wouldn't be able to transform otherwise, that was made clear in the Moro arc.

And I'm not sure where the ability to create barrier and telekinesis come from. He used telekinesis against Broly but there was no explanation. Of course, it's not like the first time Goku pulls an ability out of his ass: there was him reading Krillin's mind when he arrived on Namek, and him seeing everything that happened while he was bedridden in the Android saga in a "dream".

[DragonOsman]

I don't think that's the usual Omen form anyway. It says it's his "own" Ultra Instinct, after all. Omen also doesn't come with that barrier ability he used earlier, does it?

Goku and Vegeta have found their own answers. That's also what the chapter title's talking about.

Also Goku said his mind isn't calm right now which is why he can't use the white haired form.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I don't think that's the usual Omen form anyway. It says it's his "own" Ultra Instinct, after all. Omen also doesn't come with that barrier ability he used earlier, does it?

He was in base form when he did that, which makes even less sense because how could a barrier made with so little power resist Gas?

And he was using MUI just fine earlier. The form he's using is definitely Omen, he chose it because it's the strongest form he can use UI in without getting rid of his emotions. We're just supposed to believe his emotions are enough to close that massive gap.

[justavisitor]

Originally Posted by Kanon

He was in base form when he did that, which makes even less sense because how could a barrier made with so little power resist Gas?

And he was using MUI just fine earlier. The form he's using is definitely Omen, he chose it because it's the strongest form he can use UI in without getting rid of his emotions. We're just supposed to believe his emotions are enough to close that massive gap.

Completely agree...MUI walked over Jiren and Moro where Omen couldn't. How could emotions play such a big role? Heck, if Goku wants emotion, he should use super saiyan instead

[Galaxian]

The wrote themselves into a corner by giving Goku MUI at will in the Moro arc, and they've been flailing around with this entire arc because of how little room they are left to work it. The whole thing is a complete mess and just reinforces my believe that Vegeta should have defeated Moro with his Spirit Fission technique.

[azenable]

I think its okie.
DB or any shounien for that matter, has always been about powering up via emotion.
Goku, from the bardock recording, realise that his saiyan root is the joy of battle and wining and that's the source of their strength.
SO he found this magical sweet spot to fusion Saiyan emotion and UI, which is this UI modified.
like all fusion, its a multiplier and so his stronger now.

[DragonOsman]

I guess it just won't sit right with them if they don't have Vegeta job at the end in every single arc in Super. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Edit: One post late.

@azenable: That's a pretty good point, actually.

[GDB]

It'd be a better point if they hadn't specified repeatedly that you cannot use emotions with UI, regardless of version. Or explained even a slight bit how you can just "realize" how to combine things like this to make them stronger, especially considering the former point.

It's like saying salad is healthy, but you really like cake, so you'll just combine salad and cake and get a super healthy, super tasty meal. It just doesn't work that way.

[azenable]

Originally Posted by GDB

It'd be a better point if they hadn't specified repeatedly that you cannot use emotions with UI, regardless of version. Or explained even a slight bit how you can just "realize" how to combine things like this to make them stronger, especially considering the former point.

It's like saying salad is healthy, but you really like cake, so you'll just combine salad and cake and get a super healthy, super tasty meal. It just doesn't work that way.

Not IRL, but in Akira Toriyama's world, SalKe is best meal!

[The Green One]

Shit we wrote ourselves into a corner, what do we do?

QUICK GIVE GOKU A NEW SUPER SAIYAN COLOR! Which color have we not done yet?

[alex_drian]

Well, if something, Goku firing a mouth beam was cool. I love mouth beam. Cool looking, like a dragon breath, but you need to be careful, otherwise you are gonna end up as Recoome or that other dude in Slug movie.

Aside of that, I don't know how to feel about this just be yourself power-up except I can wait for this shit arc to end.

[B214]

Originally Posted by The Green One

Shit we wrote ourselves into a corner, what do we do?

QUICK GIVE GOKU A NEW SUPER SAIYAN COLOR! Which color have we not done yet?

Bronze, brown, cyan, magenta, lavender, maroon, lime...
Or could just go stacking color on color like Kaio-ken blue. Just stack that into ultra instinct.

[The Green One]

Just wait until the most power Super Saiyan Color of them all. Baby Puke.

[GDB]

Clearly, this is Super Saiyan Black. Not to be confused with Goku Black.

[Guy Incognito]

is it ok to say super is as bad as GT yet?

[azenable]

Originally Posted by Guy Incognito

is it ok to say super is as bad as GT yet?

nope some arc in Super is good, GT is generally all bad

[B214]

Originally Posted by Guy Incognito

is it ok to say super is as bad as GT yet?

Super has Vegeta. GT has Pan.

Either way, feels like Dragon Ball won't run out of Super Saiyan transformation at this point it's like SSB (SSGSS) is attained by putting the power of SSG into SSJ. Eventually Goku & Vegeta will put UI & UE into SSJ and become some kind of new SSJ.
Hell lets be indecisive on Gohan again, and make it that he can put his potential unleashed into SSj.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by B214

Super has Vegeta. GT has Pan.

What is that supposed to mean? Vegeta is great in Super despite his constant jobbing, and Pan was awful in GT. The way they handled Pan is probably GT's biggest crime, she was all set to become a fighter at the end of the manga and then she just turns into a weak spoiled brat.

As for Gohan, you might want to read Super Hero spoilers.