(L) Seirei Gensouki: Spirit Chronicles

[DragonOsman]

Originally Posted by hihoperorin

Except that's also my point. I can't think of any character who'd remember Rio and yet refer to him in that exact specific way. The immigrant brat is like you're out for his blood but haven't any idea who he is/never met him before, so if that is actually someone out for Rio, then maybe the voice(s) that wanted Miharu's downfall is telling Takahisa to kill a white haired red eyed black dragon immigrant, but the way of talking wasn't Takahisa and it could just be that Reiss told the mercs that this so so immigrant boy is the killer of your captain/Lucius and they all went "we'll kill the immigrant brat."

on the note of the voice tho, the first time the voice told Miharu to make a bad decision she then heard "we meet again" in Takahisa's voice, it could be possible that due to some restriction Lina can't even talk to Miharu which is why she tried warning her of forgiving him using the future dark/viscous Takahisa's line of meeting again, then if Lina can't talk to Miharu then the voice telling her not to force herself to remember is either an enemy that doesn't want something Lina setup in Miharu to activate or an ally different wise who decided it's in their best interest to assist Lina's scheme for now. In that case the voice talking to and helping give power to Celia may also be a wise that decided to aid Lina's plans.

Well, that's a lot of almost baseless speculation, the majority of which is probably off.

I think the voice that spoke to Celia when she awakened, and the voice speaking to Miharu in her dreams, belong to different people. It being the same person wouldn't make sense, at least IMO.

And I think that Miharu actually did hear Takatrash himself, in her dream, telling her, "We meet again". It may have been a premonition of him coming back to Galarc.

Originally Posted by jagt

You are forgeting that it might no be a matter of recklessness but of having another choice or not. And even if Celia manages to teleport out of sight the escorts that Charlotte assigned to her and the people from the fortress where they waited for Celia would still ask how is it that Celia arrived so far so quickly.

But Liselotte (and likely Aria as well) did wonder how she got all the way to her office from Beltrum in such a short amount of time. So there wasn't much of a difference between her having used a teleportation artifact and her flying, at least in that aspect, was there? But yes, aside from that, I do get you and you're right.

Originally Posted by jagt

Besides blaming this on Rio when he never had a chance of knowing the contents of the agreement with the Bertram kingdom or about the letter send by Helmut is at least unfair, no amount of danger management can compensate for your protegees charging head first into danger by themselves and with the consent of the guard that you assigned to them to make things worse.

I agree here. Rio already has his hands full with trying to find a way to break God's rules safely. You can't expect him to take care of everything. The Transcendentals aren't literal gods.

[jagt]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I think the voice that spoke to Celia when she awakened, and the voice speaking to Miharu in her dreams, belong to different people. It being the same person wouldn't make sense, at least IMO.

And I think that Miharu actually did hear Takatrash himself, in her dream, telling her, "We meet again". It may have been a premonition of him coming back to Galarc.



But Liselotte (and likely Aria as well) did wonder how she got all the way to her office from Beltrum in such a short amount of time. So there wasn't much of a difference between her having used a teleportation artifact and her flying, at least in that aspect, was there? But yes, aside from that, I do get you and you're right.



I agree here. Rio already has his hands full with trying to find a way to break God's rules safely. You can't expect him to take care of everything. The Transcendentals aren't literal gods.

The voice that spoke to Miharu twice in volume 21, and the voice that talked to her in dreams twice are different, of that you can be sure, their ways of phrasing things were completely different. The voice from volume 21 spoke casually and kindly and seemd to care about Miharu, but the voice from the dreams used a more polite phrasing but pointlessly haughty and patronizing, close to simply mocking and sarcastic even, and didn't seem to care about Miharu in the slightest. The voice that spoke to Celia spoke in a way similar to the voice from volume 21, so I am more inclined to believe it is the same or at least belongs to someone from the same side.

About the second thing, I don't think explaining you can fly fast with a magic that is really hard to master and eats a lot of magic power can be compared to teleportation, one thing is still kind of balanced even if surprising to see, but the second thing is a balance breaker.

[DragonOsman]

The voice that spoke to Celia might be the same as the first one that Miharu heard, but it could also be that the owner hid her true colors when she first spoke to Miharu.

How many times has the rude one spoken to Miharu by now? Was it more than two? Because she did speak to her in a dream once before this too.

But yeah, a hard-to-master magic really isn't comparable to teleportation. That's certainly true. My bad there; I was being a bit careless, I guess.

[Xan2341]

Anyone who has read the Japanese version of volume 22, can you confirm when timeline wise Celia told Sora she hoped to have results in Chapter 6? I am reading the pre-pub version of volume 22 from J-novel and they have this section translated as Celia is hoping to have results for Rio prior to him and Sora leaving the kingdom, which seems incorrect.

[jagt]

Originally Posted by Xan2341

Anyone who has read the Japanese version of volume 22, can you confirm when timeline wise Celia told Sora she hoped to have results in Chapter 6? I am reading the pre-pub version of volume 22 from J-novel and they have this section translated as Celia is hoping to have results for Rio prior to him and Sora leaving the kingdom, which seems incorrect.

Celia and Sora talked about that the day after Celia's return from Rodania, while the heroes were discussing about agreeing to have their powers tested or not. What Celia really told Sora back them was that she didn't want to think it was like that, but that it seemed like analyzing the mask could take weeks, months or even years and told her to pray for her to have got any results by the time Rio and Sora come back from their trip.

[DragonOsman]

I see. The official translations are always inaccurate in some places.

I really hope it doesn't take Celia years to have results on those masks.

[Marco]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

I really hope it doesn't take Celia years to have results on those masks.

Impossible. While we have examples of authors ending their stories in terrible ways, writing crazy turns of events, they aren't in any way the norm, are they?
That's the greatest mistake one can make as an author, as it obviously burns their reputation.

I mean to say, I don't think Yuri would even dare think about dragging their reunion for years (that'd be caothic). The resolution will probably come from Celia figuring something out in some weeks or a pair of months, or simply from some other way with the progress/hints we will get eventually.

With that way of thinking (it'd be a shock to know I'm being naive), I can more or less safely say that: with the developments around Rio, Celia and Miharu, we can logically expect that at least they'll end up together. Since it'd already be poligamy, it'll become easier to add some of the girls, like Aishia and Satsuki. The thing is, I seriously can't imagine a way to simply undo that progress without complety destroying all the work he's done for years. I have faith, you could say haha.
What we can do is discussing how that can come to be. Miharu has her family, but we can say she's got a special soul. And Rio is immortal, not going back to normal. While it'be bitter, he can wait for her. Satsuki isn't exactly human either, but I don't know if it's reversible once the issue with the great spirits gets resolved. Maybe with can expect something there.
With Celia, I don't think there's much to say. She's already told Rio that she wants to be with him even if it means not getting married as a noble (which obviously she doesn't want, in any case). And I understand that Rio is one to accept what he considers a responsibility.

Or do you think I'm being naive or making too many assumptions?

[jagt]

Originally Posted by Marco

Impossible. While we have examples of authors ending their stories in terrible ways, writing crazy turns of events, they aren't in any way the norm, are they?
That's the greatest mistake one can make as an author, as it obviously burns their reputation.

I mean to say, I don't think Yuri would even dare think about dragging their reunion for years (that'd be caothic). The resolution will probably come from Celia figuring something out in some weeks or a pair of months, or simply from some other way with the progress/hints we will get eventually.

With that way of thinking (it'd be a shock to know I'm being naive), I can more or less safely say that: with the developments around Rio, Celia and Miharu, we can logically expect that at least they'll end up together. Since it'd already be poligamy, it'll become easier to add some of the girls, like Aishia and Satsuki. The thing is, I seriously can't imagine a way to simply undo that progress without complety destroying all the work he's done for years. I have faith, you could say haha.
What we can do is discussing how that can come to be. Miharu has her family, but we can say she's got a special soul. And Rio is immortal, not going back to normal. While it'be bitter, he can wait for her. Satsuki isn't exactly human either, but I don't know if it's reversible once the issue with the great spirits gets resolved. Maybe with can expect something there.
With Celia, I don't think there's much to say. She's already told Rio that she wants to be with him even if it means not getting married as a noble (which obviously she doesn't want, in any case). And I understand that Rio is one to accept what he considers a responsibility.

Or do you think I'm being naive or making too many assumptions?

I don't know how much time, time inside the books, the author has planned to use for the current arc, but until now this series hasn't had an arc longer than four books, so if the author keeps doing things like usual the next volume should be the end of the current arc. I don't know either how it is that the author plans to have the rules broken but I don't think Celia or the masks will be the key, I have a feeling they are just a decoy for keeping our eyes away from something the author has already introduced in the series and that it is the thing in charge of creating a breakthrough. I don't know what that something will finally be, but I personally believe the key will be in Rio's previous life as Haruto. Miharu, Aki, Latifa and Liselotte can remember Haruto despite them not being able to remember Rio. So Rio should also be able to keep Haruto's memories of Mii-chan, Aki, Suzune and Rikka. In toher words a Rio that is left without his memories of everyone would still be able to at the very least recognize Miharu, for me it is too much of a coincidence that the girl who is the reincarnation of the woman that created a plan to break thorugh the rules it is precisely the only one that Rio won't be really able to forget even after suffering the rules' penalty. I really think there must be some meaning in that fact.

[DragonOsman]

Originally Posted by jagt

I don't know how much time, time inside the books, the author has planned to use for the current arc, but until now this series hasn't had an arc longer than four books, so if the author keeps doing things like usual the next volume should be the end of the current arc. I don't know either how it is that the author plans to have the rules broken but I don't think Celia or the masks will be the key, I have a feeling they are just a decoy for keeping our eyes away from something the author has already introduced in the series and that it is the thing in charge of creating a breakthrough. I don't know what that something will finally be, but I personally believe the key will be in Rio's previous life as Haruto. Miharu, Aki, Latifa and Liselotte can remember Haruto despite them not being able to remember Rio. So Rio should also be able to keep Haruto's memories of Mii-chan, Aki, Suzune and Rikka. In toher words a Rio that is left without his memories of everyone would still be able to at the very least recognize Miharu, for me it is too much of a coincidence that the girl who is the reincarnation of the woman that created a plan to break thorugh the rules it is precisely the only one that Rio won't be really able to forget even after suffering the rules' penalty. I really think there must be some meaming ot that fact.

You know, I think you make a pretty good point about Rio definitely remembering the girls from Earth even if he loses his memories of the ones from that from that world (though he still won't forget Celia since she's part of the Transcendentals' team). I wonder if he'll still remember Satsuki at that point, though, since he hadn't met her while he was on Earth.

Either way (whether the key is in Celia and what she's researching about the masks or in Rio's previous life as Haruto, or in something else entirely), they'll definitely manage to find a way to break those stupid rules because I think this series is definitely going to have a True Harem ending that includes all of the girls who love Rio.

@Marco: Agreed.

By the way. Do you guys think Reiss is really the Demon King? Or do you think he's someone else? I've talked to some people who believe he's the Demon King.

Edit: Also wanted to say: I want to see Rio remember his life as the Dragon King. He should be able to remember once they've found a way around the rules. And Miharu should be able to remember he own life Lina, too, at that point (if Rio can remember).

[jagt]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

You know, I think you make a pretty good point about Rio definitely remembering the girls from Earth even if he loses his memories of the ones from that from that world (though he still won't forget Celia since she's part of the Transcendentals' team). I wonder if he'll still remember Satsuki at that point, though, since he hadn't met her while he was on Earth.

Either way (whether the key is in Celia and what she's researching about the masks or in Rio's previous life as Haruto, or in something else entirely), they'll definitely manage to find a way to break those stupid rules because I think this series is definitely going to have a True Harem ending that includes all of the girls who love Rio.

@Marco: Agreed.

By the way. Do you guys think Reiss is really the Demon King? Or do you think he's someone else? I've talked to some people who believe he's the Demon King.

Edit: Also wanted to say: I want to see Rio remember his life as the Dragon King. He should be able to remember once they've found a way around the rules. And Miharu should be able to remember he own life Lina, too, at that point (if Rio can remember).

Haruto met Satsuki and even talked to her the day of the hero summonning, the prologue of volume 9 showed that conversation, the problem is that Haruto didn't bother remembering the girl he didn't see ever again while Satsuki remembers well that moment because her last day on earth was important for her, Satsuki and Rio even talked about that in the first chapter of volume 10 and Rio had to tell Satsuki to forgive him for forgetting her precisely because of that. So there is a slight chance Rio could recognize Satsuki too, the problem would be the other three, even if Rio can keep Haruto's memories he has no way of associating Suzune with Latifa and Rikka with Liselotte, in Aki's case Rio could guess her identity from her name and the fact that she is close to Miharu but just looking at Aki won't ring any bells like in volume 4. In the end Miharu is the only one that Rio would be able to recognize not matter what.

About Reis, I don't think he is the demon king but he should belong to the demons' side, in volume 23, after failing to kill Celia and while listening to Arein's and Lucci's report of their defeat, Reis made statements that showed that he doesn't know about Lina's existence or about her authority, so that at least should prove wrong the theories about him being a familiar of any of the six wise Gods becuase they should know well about Lina.

[DragonOsman]

Reiss is at least a Transcendental or something related to them, since he remembers Rio. But yeah, for the reason you stated, he couldn't be a familiar of any of the Wise Gods or a Wise God himself.

Good point about Satsuki and the others.

[Xan2341]

Originally Posted by jagt

About Reis, I don't think he is the demon king but he should belong to the demons' side, in volume 23, after failing to kill Celia and while listening to Arein's and Lucci's report of their defeat, Reis made statements that showed that he doesn't know about Lina's existence or about her authority, so that at least should prove wrong the theories about him being a familiar of any of the six wise Gods becuase they should know well about Lina.

Didn't Sora admit in volume 21 that the wise gods were secretive even to each other and there were details on their powers that even Lina didn't know. Reiss may not be aware because he himself may have limited information on what Lina could do. I personally don't see Reiss being on the wise god side (He uses spirit arts and never magic), but I don't see him being a demon either (That would be too easy of a guess based on how elusive the author is keeping him). Honestly he has more of a chance of being a missing great spirit familiar at this point in time. At least with that background, his use of spirit arts and hatred for the wise gods would make sense, enough to invoke a plan that would bring trouble to both them and the Strahl region.

I also don't think the other transcended even know that the dragon king and Lina died. Lina took the dragon king to a currently undisclosed location to perform the reincarnation magic. This may be why Reiss is questioning Rio's existence now but not able to connect the dots. Though you'd think he would be concerned based on how much he knows that someone without a connection to the original 14 transcended was able to transcend himself. That is one area the author glossed over in volume 21. Reiss once again became all knowing about Rio's situation, and it was only Celia's evolution in volume 22 that really panicked him. I suppose in Rio's case, he doesn't care at the moment because he knows Rio is trapped by the rules.

[jagt]

Originally Posted by Xan2341

Didn't Sora admit in volume 21 that the wise gods were secretive even to each other and there were details on their powers that even Lina didn't know. Reiss may not be aware because he himself may have limited information on what Lina could do. I personally don't see Reiss being on the wise god side (He uses spirit arts and never magic), but I don't see him being a demon either (That would be too easy of a guess based on how elusive the author is keeping him). Honestly he has more of a chance of being a missing great spirit familiar at this point in time. At least with that background, his use of spirit arts and hatred for the wise gods would make sense, enough to invoke a plan that would bring trouble to both them and the Strahl region.

I also don't think the other transcended even know that the dragon king and Lina died. Lina took the dragon king to a currently undisclosed location to perform the reincarnation magic. This may be why Reiss is questioning Rio's existence now but not able to connect the dots. Though you'd think he would be concerned based on how much he knows that someone without a connection to the original 14 transcended was able to transcend himself. That is one area the author glossed over in volume 21. Reiss once again became all knowing about Rio's situation, and it was only Celia's evolution in volume 22 that really panicked him. I suppose in Rio's case, he doesn't care at the moment because he knows Rio is trapped by the rules.

What Sora said was that the Dragon king and Lina didn't know much about the wise Gods' authorities because they were secretive of them, not that the six wise Gods didn't knew the others' authorities, but even ike that the wise Gods have absolutely no reason for keeping secrets from their familiars, being secretive about your own powers with people that you can force to stay quiet with just your words is completely useless, keeping information about existences not completely cooperative or even hostile depending in one's actions from the familiars that you might end up using in a fight against them is directly suicidal and lowers the success chances of any plan for taking them down, so the chances of the wise Gods' familiars not knowing about Lina's and the dragon king's authorities should be zero. Reis shouldn't be either a familiar of a great spirit, Sora said that all of those familiars were humanoid spirits and Reis isn't one, he doesn't seem to know either the real identity of the beasts controlled by the heroes neither seems to have complete knowledge about what the transcendentals used to be and their role in the world, Reis seems to just regard the transcendentals as strong individuals bound by some rules for some reason, a familiar would never lack such basic knowledge about the trascendentals so Reis mustn't be one them, and if he isn't familar then he should be a demon be it an easy guess or not, the author doesn't have either any kind of commitment to no use troupes that someone has already used before so I don't really see a problem with Reis being a demon.

The great spirits shouldn't know of Lina's or the dragon king's death from inside their seal, but we can't say for sure when it comes to the six wise Gods. We weren't said anything either about Lina taking the dragon king anywhere for using the reincarnation magic, that is just someone's assuption and not a fact. Reis not being able to connect the dots seems to be due to him not even knowing that something like reincarnation exist or could even be possible, another mistake a wise God familiar would never make. For me Reis thinking a transcendental is something one can turn into is just another prove of him not being a familiar not something the author the glossed over. Finally about Celia, for me Reis simply looked anxious because he feared Celia could get as strong as a familiar if left alone and wanted to prevent that.

[DragonOsman]

Actually, yes, those are pretty good points you make about Reiss being a familiar of a Wise God or a Great Spirit or not. There's no reason for a Wise God to withhold that kind of information from their familiars.

[hihoperorin]

I agree with you guys that Reiss is most likely not a wise god or their familiar, but it's too early to claim he's from the demon side. He could for example be a descendant of a clan that the wise gods tempered with then left with some job after the war. Would explain how he know the rules and transcendentals; whatever was done to Celia or something like it, was done to his entire bloodline.

Maybe that would also explain his seemingly weird range of knowledge; his reaction to Celia using ancient magic was full throttle panic, while his reaction to Rio returning as a transcendental was "hey, lets try provoking him and see what happens." I just can't think that Reiss knows the extent of the transcendentals' might, the power balances they have and even what took place between them, except for the wise gods who he seems somewhat familiar with. Or that he knows what the dragon king is and that it is Rio. His reaction to the return of possibly the strongest piece was too lukewarm compared to his reaction to a girl with limited mana using ancient magic. Heck if he knew what took place between the 14 and who they are, his first reaction to Rio should have been "ok wait a moment, now who is this guy? Which faction does he belong to? He can't be a spirit as they are sealed..." instead we got "oh so it's the revival of a literal demigod is it, dear me. And you also have masks that allow y-- THAT GIRL CAN SPROUT WINGS FROM HER BACK. WE MUST FOCUS ALL OUR FORCES ON KILLING HER ASAP."

[Roberto1]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

because I think this series is definitely going to have a True Harem ending that includes all of the girls who love Rio.

are you still bothering with that? wake up dude, i am almost feeling sad for you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pxPRfWjwc8

[DragonOsman]

Originally Posted by hihoperorin

I agree with you guys that Reiss is most likely not a wise god or their familiar, but it's too early to claim he's from the demon side. He could for example be a descendant of a clan that the wise gods tempered with then left with some job after the war. Would explain how he know the rules and transcendentals; whatever was done to Celia or something like it, was done to his entire bloodline.

Maybe that would also explain his seemingly weird range of knowledge; his reaction to Celia using ancient magic was full throttle panic, while his reaction to Rio returning as a transcendental was "hey, lets try provoking him and see what happens." I just can't think that Reiss knows the extent of the transcendentals' might, the power balances they have and even what took place between them, except for the wise gods who he seems somewhat familiar with. Or that he knows what the dragon king is and that it is Rio. His reaction to the return of possibly the strongest piece was too lukewarm compared to his reaction to a girl with limited mana using ancient magic. Heck if he knew what took place between the 14 and who they are, his first reaction to Rio should have been "ok wait a moment, now who is this guy? Which faction does he belong to? He can't be a spirit as they are sealed..." instead we got "oh so it's the revival of a literal demigod is it, dear me. And you also have masks that allow y-- THAT GIRL CAN SPROUT WINGS FROM HER BACK. WE MUST FOCUS ALL OUR FORCES ON KILLING HER ASAP."

Yeah, it's confusing as to what he knows and what he doesn't. But he definitely isn't someone who could know about the Dragon King.

And I want to ignore Roberto but I can't ignore him completely, so I'll just say this into the air while hoping he hears: the rules arc is just an arc so it'll eventually end, and Rio, Sora and Ashia are seriously trying to find a way to break God's rules here, too, so there's no reason to not believe that the girls in the harem will remember Rio and Aishia later on.

[jagt]

Reis seems to know that existences known as trascendentals exist and that they are bound by some rules but seems to know nothing of their origin, the real extent of their powers, the roles given to them by God, the relationships among them, what the rules exactly are or say, that a transcendental isn't something one can turn into and simply regards them as individuals really strong that are bound by some rules for some reason.

Reis seems to know that the transcendentals can't be remembered by the people they used to be acquainted with but seems to believe that that is a consecuence of becoming a transcendental instead of the penalty of using an authority, he also seems to not know what authorities are either or what they can do. Reis seems to know that the transcendentals will forget about the people they try to help but it is unkown if he knows about the rest of the rules.

Reis seems to know that familiars exist but seems to just believe that they are existences subordinated to the transcendentals, weaker than them and also bound by the rules but seems to not know what a familiar really is, the differences between being a familiar of whose transcendental, how someone becomes a familiar or the whole extent of a familar's power.

Reis seems to know how to awaken a hero and that they gain the ability to summon and control a beast once they do that but seems to not know the beasts' real identity or the reason why an awakened hero is almost unkillable.

Reis seems to know that there were seven wise Gods instead of six, that they created things like homunculus and golems and about the solestal magic, the special kind of magic that was known as the strongest in the past, and that the wise Gods, their familiars and seemingly also homunculus can use it. At the same time Reis doesn't seem to know why the seven wise Gods became six or any other information related to Lina.

Reis was also to able identify on sight Celia's new spells as solestal magic and was familiar with their effects and arias, in other words, he must have seem someone use those spells that should have been lost one thousand years ago before. Reis also was aware of the possibility of using magic chantlessly but seems to not know that that was an skill exclusive to the wise Gods and their familiars and the reason why it was like that.

Reis obviously wasn't the dragon king's or Lina's familiar or had any relationship with them going by how he seems to completely ignore all of the information related to them or the existence of things known to them like the reincarnation magic. Reis can't be either a familiar of any of the great spirits because Sora said that all of them were humanoid spirits and Reis isn't one. Reis can't be a wise God or some of their familiars either, his lack of knowledge about everything related to the wise Gods, the transcendentals, the familiars, the rules, the heroes... discard him as one. On the other side Reis has a lot of knowledge and abilities that should belong to people from the demon side like controlling monsters and turning wyvers or other creatures and even humans into monsters for gaining control of them. It is also unknown to which side belonged the knowledge that he used to patch up Lucius' body like the stone that closed the whole in his chest after entering it just like when Reis was creating revenants or Lucius' new eye and arm. The fact that Reis saw solestal magic before and was familiar with it could mean that he fought in the past against people who could use it, something that might hint at Reis being a survivor from one thousand years ago, that it was when that magic became lost knowledge. Lastly, Reis also made at times comments that gave the impression that he didn't consider himself human or at least that he doesn't incluse himself in the whole known as humanty.

That's more less the what Reis seems to be know or not that I can think of right now.

[DragonOsman]

Good points. And what you said really puts it into perspective, so thanks for this post.

By the way, it's "celestial" magic, not "solestial". That's not even a word.

[jagt]

Originally Posted by DragonOsman

Good points. And what you said really puts it into perspective, so thanks for this post.

By the way, it's "celestial" magic, not "solestial". That's not even a word.

To be more precise it is solestal magic, written kenjinmahou in kanji, the kanji for wisdom,God, magic, and technique/method that put together gives wise God magic with the katakanas so, re,su, ta, ru, ma, ji, tsu and ku above that put together gives you solestaru magicku, that in englist it would be solestal magic, for the word to be read as celestial magic like the official translation says the katakanas would have to be se, re, su, shi, a, ru, ma, gi, tsu and ku, celestiaru magicku when put together that in english would be celestial magic, but as I said already the word celestial isn't the one used in the raws.