Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch From Mercury - Anime Episode Discussion

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Antitode made the drones useless. The "Drone War" was first mentioned on the Beguir-Beu HG box in relation to the Antitode to shut down Gundams: This is an advanced version of the Permet/ECM Equipment that put an end to the Drone War fought with unmanned units...

Oh, so the Antidote is not only to shut down Gundams, but it was previously used on drones? Neat.

But Antidote can't work on Permet 3+ Suits. So now we're facing the "Neutron -> N-Jammer -> N-Jammer Canceller"-cycle again like in SEED

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Well, supposedly Suletta is going to become more protagonist-like now. I'm not sure if she's going to directly help resolve the conflict in Earth vs Space any time soon beyond probably helping stop Quiet Zero, but maybe that'll end up being the first step to something. I guess it depends on how satisfactorily they want to end this assuming we're not getting a 4-cour G-Witch show.

It's a Gundam show. The big picture doesn't have to end satisfactorily.

Originally Posted by Frontier

It sounds reasonable and practical but that's exactly why I don't think it'll work in the long-term, at least with Shaddiq in charge and being Mr. "I worked with terrorists to secure control over my father."

Shaddiq doesn't have to be in charge. But he's already making his move and selling tons of assets to Earth as shown in episode 18. That could lead to a bigger conflict but I don't think so because there's no enough time in the show to cover a bigger conflict. So what I expect instead is that after everything Mio and Prospera are doing blows up on their faces, Shaddiq's plan will actually bear fruit and the hostilities will end, at least temporarily, and that's good enough, really. There's no happy ever after when it comes to geopolitics and Gundam.

I don't think Miorine is going to use legitimate force.

Aerial using permet magic to stop and take control of enemy suits and weapons is force enough. It might give Mio the chance to win the election, but it will also instill fear among the population of Earth. Imagine learning that their big oppressor, the Benerit group, has such a dystopian technology. It's gonna be terrifying for the people of Earth. And like Yoda would say: "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." It's not the path to peace.

Prospera, on the other hand...because I definitely think things are going to go wrong when Prospera hijacks Quiet Zero.

I don't think she even needs to hijack it. We don't know the details of what Quiet Zero is exactly, but what little we heard, it already smells like big trouble regardless of who controls it. Absolute control is never a good thing, and that's what Quiet Zero smells like.

"Turns out you're a clone of me and we don't need you anymore! Bye Bye!"

It's cruel but at least it makes it clear to Suletta she wasn't ditched because she made a mistake or failed to keep a promise like she believed. Without this, she would have kept blaming herself, thinking she failed. You may not think clearing up this misunderstanding is important but it's actually super super important. Suletta's self-blame would have become a curse for her, rendering her unable to move on.

I guess in their eyes it's freedom to live a normal life knowing she can get that kind of school life she always dreamed of, even though without Miorine it doesn't mean as much to her.

It's not just the lack of Miorine in her life. The fact is Suletta is the kind of person who enjoys helping others and wants to feel needed. She's also someone who always strives to move forward. She's not like that because her mother told her to. It's simply who she truly is as a person. But Mio, Eri and Prospera... You know, I'm tired of writing their names so from now on I'm gonna call them the three stooges to make things easier for me... So, the three stooges denied Suletta of everything that makes her who she is. Now she feels she is not needed anymore, she feels like she's not allowed to help the people she loves, she feels she can't move forward like this. The lack of Mio is like a cherry on top.

Chuchu definitely seems to be looking out for Suletta's best interests.

Chuchu is awesome. She should be the main character.

[Twi]

Originally Posted by justavisitor

Nika has no idea that gundam pilot will die is a perfect demonstration that the kids have no idea what they are selling. I am not even sure if Miorine knows this and she is selling gundam for its "medical use". She has no idea what's going on (same as Guel) and they are running for president!! If there is any moral story behind this, it's that becoming a CEO is not as easy as it seems

Mio knows full well Gundams kill people. She learned that and asked the reason Aerial was the exception to the rule when she met with Prospera after buying Shin Sei and Pell's Gundam Divisions, who told her that there was a black box involved that they were still working around, and that stopped them from using mass production to pump out a dozen of them for the entire Earth House. Said black-box just so happened to be Eri, but Prospera wasn't telling her that at the time.

That's part of why Mio went into the medical field, along with the fact that a lot of the Earth House didn't want to make weapons.

Nika not knowing it is honestly weirder, but as far as the other kids knew the only two Gundams that have been introduced prior to Plant Quetta seemed to have gotten around the killing pilots thing.

[Key Board]

Suletta's a bit like Mika if you think about it

There's some complex geopoltical tensions between the earth and space. They are aware of it, because they have lived through that. But they are not emotionally invested in it. They trust another person's judgement on that matter.

Until they can't anymore.

Shaddiq, however has a lot of McGillis in him. He has a plan, but it's not the best and he's going to be blindsided by things he didn't see coming.

I guess this makes DoF the Tekkadan of Gwitch. Legitimate cause and concerns. But rallied behind the wrong person

//

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Key Board

He has a plan, but it's not the best

It sure as hell sounds better than Quiet Zero though.

[Key Board]

I'm going to presume that Delling's version of Quiet Zero is total control over every mobile suit.
Aerial already proved the concept. It's viable. No one has a counter to that.
Sounds like a very good plan if you want to be a world police

But that's probably not Miorine's plan either.
She in this for another reason.
I'm not sure if she understands what Quiet Zero can or can not do.

I feel the goal of using Gund Format for medical development is a noble goal, but ultimately does not address Earthian Spacian tensions at all. Perhaps she will pull a Diana/Kihel and cede some control to Earthians as a show of good faith

//

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I'm going to presume that Delling's version of Quiet Zero is total control over every mobile suit.
Aerial already proved the concept. It's viable. No one has a counter to that.
Sounds like a very good plan if you want to be a world police

Eri doesn't control only mobile suits. She can control any permet-based device, and in the world of G-witch almost any device is permet-based. This gives Eri the ability to control basically anything and everything other than people themselves. And Eri said Quiet Zero is gonna create a world where she can live. Considering she can only live in the data storm, this suggests that Quiet Zero works by expanding the data storm in a massive scale, probably covering the entire world if not the whole solar system.

How can it be a good plan to give absolute control over basically every aspect of human civilization at solar-system scale to an 8 years old permet ghost child? Quiet Zero would turn Eri into a god, and I don't know about you, but absolute power is never a good thing, specially when this power is given to a kid. It's the most stupid and horrifying idea ever. Prospera is going for it because she wants revenge, not peace. Quiet Zero is not about peace. It's a horrible menace. And it doesn't matter what Miorine's intentions are. Eri's not gonna care about Mio's intentions, or anyone's intentions for that matter. Once Quiet Zero is on and Eri gets all this power, she's the one in charge, not Mio.

In contrast, Shaddiq's plan is actually very realistic and down to Earth. It's about redirecting assets to Earth to level the technological and economical playing field between Earth and Space. This plan is not without risk, of course, but the risk aren't even in the same ballpark as the risk involved in giving absolute godly power to an 8 years old kid. There's no comparison at all really.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

How can it be a good plan to give absolute control over basically every aspect of human civilization at solar-system scale to an 8 years old permet ghost child? Quiet Zero would turn Eri into a god, and I don't know about you, but absolute power is never a good thing, specially when this power is given to a kid. It's the most stupid and horrifying idea ever. Prospera is going for it because she wants revenge, not peace. Quiet Zero is not about peace. It's a horrible menace. And it doesn't matter what Miorine's intentions are. Eri's not gonna care about Mio's intentions, or anyone's intentions for that matter. Once Quiet Zero is on and Eri gets all this power, she's the one in charge, not Mio.

Eri may look like a kid but that doesn't mean she is still one mentally. She of course had limited interaction with people since no one besides Suletta could talk to her until now but she strikes me as more mature than Suletta. Though not mature nor smart enough to not make the exact same mistake as Miorine.

Eri knows the entire plan and has agreed to it. Unlike Suletta, Elnora never kept her in the dark. Aerial also probably has internet access which would have allowed her to gain a lot of knowledge.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Eri knows the entire plan and has agreed to it.

That makes things worse, because Prospera's plan is not peace, it's revenge. And Eri agrees with it.

Imagine giving absolute godly powers to a kid seeking revenge. What can go wrong, huh?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Which makes things worse, because Prospera's plan is not peace, it's revenge. And Eri agrees with it.

Imagine giving absolute godly powers to a kid seeking revenge. What can go wrong, huh?

I wasn't arguing she should rule the galaxy, but that she isn't a kid.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

It's a Gundam show. The big picture doesn't have to end satisfactorily.

I feel like more often than not it leans towards it in some form or another, though I guess it depends on your definition .

Shaddiq doesn't have to be in charge. But he's already making his move and selling tons of assets to Earth as shown in episode 18. That could lead to a bigger conflict but I don't think so because there's no enough time in the show to cover a bigger conflict. So what I expect instead is that after everything Mio and Prospera are doing blows up on their faces, Shaddiq's plan will actually bear fruit and the hostilities will end, at least temporarily, and that's good enough, really. There's no happy ever after when it comes to geopolitics and Gundam.

I think Shaddiq totally wants to be in charge (and maybe with Miorine by his side, but that might be negotiable). Although to be honest it feels like we have enough episode to mayyyyybe take care of both Quiet Zero and Shaddiq. I guess it depends on how much of a bow they want to wrap things up, because otherwise I don't see them leaving Shaddiq's stuff hanging. Unless we do get a 4-cour series and can play out more.

Aerial using permet magic to stop and take control of enemy suits and weapons is force enough. It might give Mio the chance to win the election, but it will also instill fear among the population of Earth. Imagine learning that their big oppressor, the Benerit group, has such a dystopian technology. It's gonna be terrifying for the people of Earth. And like Yoda would say: "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." It's not the path to peace.

I guess I don't view it as overwhelming force and Miorine will probably advertise it as something that can just as easily shut down Spacian tech as well, hence it being seen as an equalizer.

Of course I don't think that's what Prospera cares about.

I don't think she even needs to hijack it. We don't know the details of what Quiet Zero is exactly, but what little we heard, it already smells like big trouble regardless of who controls it. Absolute control is never a good thing, and that's what Quiet Zero smells like.

To Prospera it's her revenge and chance to get Eri back. Whatever form it takes, I think it will be by her design.

It's cruel but at least it makes it clear to Suletta she wasn't ditched because she made a mistake or failed to keep a promise like she believed. Without this, she would have kept blaming herself, thinking she failed. You may not think clearing up this misunderstanding is important but it's actually super super important. Suletta's self-blame would have become a curse for her, rendering her unable to move on.

Honestly I think it just gave her more to chew on and angst about, especially finding out the truth about her identity and her sister.

It's not just the lack of Miorine in her life. The fact is Suletta is the kind of person who enjoys helping others and wants to feel needed. She's also someone who always strives to move forward. She's not like that because her mother told her to. It's simply who she truly is as a person. But Mio, Eri and Prospera... You know, I'm tired of writing their names so from now on I'm gonna call them the three stooges to make things easier for me... So, the three stooges denied Suletta of everything that makes her who she is. Now she feels she is not needed anymore, she feels like she's not allowed to help the people she loves, she feels she can't move forward like this. The lack of Mio is like a cherry on top.

I do think we were slowly seeing the person Suletta was being warped by those around her and the situation, especially when it comes to Prospera. So even if she's not in the thick of it with them like she'd want, they probably think she at least won't have to deal with that BS any more.

Chuchu is awesome. She should be the main character.

The show would probably be over by now if Chuchu was the protagonist .

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Frontier

I feel like more often than not it leans towards it in some form or another, though I guess it depends on your definition .

I guess I'm talking more about the UC timeline. There's no such thing as a satisfing ending in the UC. Generally, the ending of a conflict is the beginning of a new one, and the ones in power are always corrupt. Can't escape that, honestly. G-witch is not part of the UC, of course, but surprisingly, it borrows a lot of themes from it, specially in how it approaches the politics. Needles to say, I don't think the show will give us a perfect solution to the conflict between Earth and Space. I think the show is a little too down to earth for that kind of ending.

I think Shaddiq totally wants to be in charge (and maybe with Miorine by his side, but that might be negotiable). Although to be honest it feels like we have enough episode to mayyyyybe take care of both Quiet Zero and Shaddiq. I guess it depends on how much of a bow they want to wrap things up, because otherwise I don't see them leaving Shaddiq's stuff hanging. Unless we do get a 4-cour series and can play out more.

Like I said, even if Shaddiq is not in charge, his plan is already in motion and will probably succeed because it just makes a lot of sense. Shaddiq might not be there to see it come to fruiting though, but that doesn't matter.

I guess I don't view it as overwhelming force and Miorine will probably advertise it as something that can just as easily shut down Spacian tech as well, hence it being seen as an equalizer.

If she shuts down Spacian tech, she won't win the election, so that's not gonna happen. Mio will be forced to use Aerial's special capabilities against Earthians, I've no doubt of that. And that's gonna fuck up the relationship between Earth and Space even more than it already is. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of Prospera's plan, since we know Prospera is not seeking peace. She seeks revenge.

Honestly I think it just gave her more to chew on and angst about, especially finding out the truth about her identity and her sister.

That too, but the most important part is that she won't blame herself anymore. Suletta could put on a facade and pretend she was fine because she was blaming herself, like she told ChuChu. But now she can't do that anymore. She has to face reality.

I do think we were slowly seeing the person Suletta was being warped by those around her and the situation, especially when it comes to Prospera. So even if she's not in the thick of it with them like she'd want, they probably think she at least won't have to deal with that BS any more.

The three stooges sure have lots of ideas of what is best for Suletta, but they're wrong. Only Suletta gets to decide what's best for her, and that's all that matters.

[serenade_beta]

*Random confession room + Secelia out of nowhere scene*

?!?!?!?!?!

[Key Board]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

If she shuts down Spacian tech, she won't win the election, so that's not gonna happen. Mio will be forced to use Aerial's special capabilities against Earthians, I've no doubt of that. And that's gonna fuck up the relationship between Earth and Space even more than it already is. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of Prospera's plan, since we know Prospera is not seeking peace.

I disagree on one thing. This is absolutely the kind of show of power the benerit group war merchant types want to see. This is absolute power. This can shut down any opposition. This is one thing that will help Miorine win the election, even though she will be aghast by it

BUt yes, this will not quell earthian anger. Only make them more afraid and desperate

//

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I guess I'm talking more about the UC timeline. There's no such thing as a satisfing ending in the UC. Generally, the ending of a conflict is the beginning of a new one, and the ones in power are always corrupt. Can't escape that, honestly. G-witch is not part of the UC, of course, but surprisingly, it borrows a lot of themes from it, specially in how it approaches the politics. Needles to say, I don't think the show will give us a perfect solution to the conflict between Earth and Space. I think the show is a little too down to earth for that kind of ending.

Well, every Gundam show takes some cues from UC and does it's own things, but while I see your point in totality of the UC universe I would say (other than Zeta with Kamille) there's at least some sort of satisfying resolution at the end of UC Gundam shows.

Honestly I think it's also anime enough that they'll probably come up with something, but that's just me.

Like I said, even if Shaddiq is not in charge, his plan is already in motion and will probably succeed because it just makes a lot of sense. Shaddiq might not be there to see it come to fruiting though, but that doesn't matter.

Well, makes sense from Shaddiq's point of view, though I do think something will probably happen that upsets things (maybe Quiet Zero?).

If she shuts down Spacian tech, she won't win the election, so that's not gonna happen. Mio will be forced to use Aerial's special capabilities against Earthians, I've no doubt of that. And that's gonna fuck up the relationship between Earth and Space even more than it already is. And I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of Prospera's plan, since we know Prospera is not seeking peace. She seeks revenge.

I don't think she's going into this thinking of just using it on Earthians though I guess we really don't have a firm idea of what the plan is and exactly how they're going to implement Quiet Zero beyond how it works and Prospera is probably going to hijack it. But I think it's intended as an equalizer to both sides.

That too, but the most important part is that she won't blame herself anymore. Suletta could put on a facade and pretend she was fine because she was blaming herself, like she told ChuChu. But now she can't do that anymore. She has to face reality.

I get that. Maybe that's the key to her getting over this. But I think what she's learned will also probably weigh on her in equal amount.

The three stooges sure have lots of ideas of what is best for Suletta, but they're wrong. Only Suletta gets to decide what's best for her, and that's all that matters.

True, although Suletta deciding her best interests and desires away from them might be for the best.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Frontier

Well, every Gundam show takes some cues from UC and does it's own things, but while I see your point in totality of the UC universe I would say (other than Zeta with Kamille) there's at least some sort of satisfying resolution at the end of UC Gundam shows.

UC shows don't give us magical solutions for big sociopolitical problems. Even after the one year war, the conflicts didn't stop, and the people who came into power were corrupted, just like the ones in power before them. Basically, nothing changed. When Amuro finally killed Char, did that change anything? No, it only allowed the corrupt governments to accumulate more power. So much so it forced Hathaway to become a terrorist in a foolish attempt to free Earth from corruption. Did he achieve anything?

Spoiler for spoiler for hathaway:

No, Kenneth killed him only to realize that Hathaway was right, but then it was too late. Kenneth had to run away from the people he worked for because they wanted to kill him for learning the truth.

Nothing changed. Specially in early UC stories, there's always this sense that humanity can't escape its own conflicting nature and corruption.

Honestly I think it's also anime enough that they'll probably come up with something, but that's just me.

If anything, the show is doing a great job at suggesting there's no magical solutions for the tension between Earth and Space. The conflict has been going for decades and the mutual hatred won't just go away.

Originally Posted by Frontier

Well, makes sense from Shaddiq's point of view, though I do think something will probably happen that upsets things (maybe Quiet Zero?).

That's the beauty of Shaddiq's plan. It doesn't require Shaddiq to be alive, nor will it be stopped even if Quiet Zero fucks everything up. Now that Shaddiq has ordered his stakeholders to start diverting assets to Earth, this is probably gonna continue in the background while the main plot plays out, with no one been the wiser because they're too busy handling other shit. In fact, Quiet Zero could be the perfect distraction that allows Shaddiq's plan to go unnoticed all the way through.

I don't think she's going into this thinking of just using it on Earthians though I guess we really don't have a firm idea of what the plan is and exactly how they're going to implement Quiet Zero beyond how it works and Prospera is probably going to hijack it. But I think it's intended as an equalizer to both sides.

Right now Mio is trying to win an election for president of the Benerit group, let's not forget that. To accomplish this, she has to make the top guys of the Benerit group and all their subsidiaries happy (they're the ones voting). Otherwise they're not gonna support her. So this idea of "equalizing both sides" is a no go, at least right now. If she does anything that hinders Benerit, they're not gonna support her and Shaddiq will win the election. I don't think she can risk that even if she's forced to do something that goes against her ideals.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

*Random confession room + Secelia out of nowhere scene*

?!?!?!?!?!

It's this episode Utena reference, but Secelia is one of the leader of the house who owns the Front (Burion) and she might start to investigated Nika (and tus Shaddiq) after grilling Martin about his confession. A few eps ago, Earth House were told by Miorine that fake front management people are involved, Burion is probably not happy about that.

Burion also makes the haro and they are everywhere at the school. I wouldn't be surprised if there is a haro-video somewhere of Nika getting caught by Jazz.

And there was shots of Chuchu's damaged Demi Trainer at the start of the episode. Burion makes the Demi series and the Demi Barding has to show up in the next two episodes based on its gunpla release date.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

UC shows don't give us magical solutions for big sociopolitical problems. Even after the one year war, the conflicts didn't stop, and the people who came into power were corrupted, just like the ones in power before them. Basically, nothing changed. When Amuro finally killed Char, did that change anything? No, it only allowed the corrupt governments to accumulate more power. So much so it forced Hathaway to become a terrorist in a foolish attempt to free Earth from corruption. Did he achieve anything?

Spoiler for spoiler for hathaway:

No, Kenneth killed him only to realize that Hathaway was right, but then it was too late. Kenneth had to run away from the people he worked for because they wanted to kill him for learning the truth.

Nothing changed. Specially in early UC stories, there's always this sense that humanity can't escape its own conflicting nature and corruption.

If anything, the show is doing a great job at suggesting there's no magical solutions for the tension between Earth and Space. The conflict has been going for decades and the mutual hatred won't just go away.

I'm not expecting a magical solution and I recognize the totality of depressiveness that is the UC universe...just on an individual basis I just don't think it has to end on a bummer though how much of one probably depends on how you look at it.

That's the beauty of Shaddiq's plan. It doesn't require Shaddiq to be alive, nor will it be stopped even if Quiet Zero fucks everything up. Now that Shaddiq has ordered his stakeholders to start diverting assets to Earth, this is probably gonna continue in the background while the main plot plays out, with no one been the wiser because they're too busy handling other shit. In fact, Quiet Zero could be the perfect distraction that allows Shaddiq's plan to go unnoticed all the way through.

Now I'm just imagining him smiling to the bitter end even if he gets vaporized...although it would be kind of funny if he doesn't lose in a Mobile Suit fight or because of the protagonists but because the Space Assembly League is that good at their jobs .

Right now Mio is trying to win an election for president of the Benerit group, let's not forget that. To accomplish this, she has to make the top guys of the Benerit group and all their subsidiaries happy (they're the ones voting). Otherwise they're not gonna support her. So this idea of "equalizing both sides" is a no go, at least right now. If she does anything that hinders Benerit, they're not gonna support her and Shaddiq will win the election. I don't think she can risk that even if she's forced to do something that goes against her ideals.

I guess it could be "demonstrate on one side, plan to turn it on the other side at a later date" type thing. Though it might get hijacked before we find out what the long-term plan was.

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I'm going to presume that Delling's version of Quiet Zero is total control over every mobile suit.
Aerial already proved the concept. It's viable. No one has a counter to that.
Sounds like a very good plan if you want to be a world police

But that's probably not Miorine's plan either.
She in this for another reason.
I'm not sure if she understands what Quiet Zero can or can not do.

I think Miorine don't even care about Quiet Zero. She is just helping Prospera with it because of her deal to stop interfering with Suletta. So Quiet Zero shouldn't be part of her plans or anything.

Also seems like Prospera needs first a president that is on her side or working for her to resume work on quiet zero, so don't think it will be used on earth now. My guess is that she needs someone with the authority of the beneritt group president to they can keep shipping the resources need for it to plan quetta in secret to continue work on it without others realizing.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by chaosprophet

I think Miorine don't even care about Quiet Zero. She is just helping Prospera with it because of her deal to stop interfering with Suletta. So Quiet Zero shouldn't be part of her plans or anything.

Also seems like Prospera needs first a president that is on her side or working for her to resume work on quiet zero, so don't think it will be used on earth now. My guess is that she needs someone with the authority of the beneritt group president to they can keep shipping the resources need for it to plan quetta in secret to continue work on it without others realizing.

Miorine seems to be bidding her time until the SAL investigation catch Prospera, but I get the feeling that investigation will damage the Benerit Group as whole instead since that's what the SAL higher ups are after. In fact, Prospera might have plenty of dirt to trade so they can go after bigger fishes in the company.

I think a small scale version of Quiet Zero will be used on Earth personally (the Delling version to control conflict). Prospera seems to loves testing her tech when the occasion arise.