(CR) Shangri-La Frontier

[Tenzen12]

Stats are clearly properly explained. I would say anyone would invest into luck at least to some degree, unless they have some very specific build on mind when they need prioritize other stats. Sunraku investing into luck should be considered common sense, not exploit. Well assuming boost in drop rate is significant enough to make difference in first place.

Also you are using flawed example. Sure FFIX had balance issue (going by your words, I myself can't speak on that topic), but that doesn't invalidate concept itself. There exist dodge/evade tanks in games other then FF and they weren't patched because they work exactly as intended.

[Rinvelt]

Originally Posted by Tactics

I don't think being naked is problem unless there's notable rules about it in Shangrila Frontier.
Nowadays MMORPG have some kind on/off toggle for costume, allowing you to be naked without risking equipment. Some late game players even wild enough to do weapon-only run (no armors), often it attracted top guild raiders; some guild even forbid recruiting members that unable to clear specific dungeon naked (no armors, starting weapon only).

No, it's about shame. It's not just a game, it's a VRMMO. You don't really want to go around basically naked with everyone looking at you. That's why he took the bird mask, to at least cover his face and make it more bearable.

Anyway, I don't really see the point of the debat. Sunraku is like anyone: he's killing monsters using his weapons. The fact that he dodges/parries everything isn't an exploit or a build, he's just a good player. Like, just look at his shelves, they're full of games. The guy has TON of experience with VR games, and they're full of bugs and less responsive to movements than SLF (as he points out when he jumps and everything). So of course he would have an edge over the average guy.

Also, we're watching the story from Sunraku's POV. Nobody ever said that he was the only person to ever choose to go naked and max their luck. (tbf, he probably is, but as long as it's not proven that he is, then we can't make assumptions) Maybe some other people did it too, who knows? SLF is about being able to play freely, so giving the option to do that isn't an exploit, just a possibility that Sunraku took.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

I think your argument are much better then @/Strays though.

You're the one who took it all personal that I compared him to Maple.

It was right down stated that ignoring armor to get better weapon is "his playstyle" not that is best way to play game (not to mention it just give early game bump as it logically wouldn't matter in late game wher you have enough money for both weapon and armor).

Beyond the power fantasy aspect "his playstyle" (which seems primarily to be finding exploits) shouldn't really work in AAAA games with 30 million players but here we are. Maybe the twist is that SLF was a "trash game" after all?

There exist dodge/evade tanks in games other then FF and they weren't patched because they work exactly as intended.

Examples? I haven't seen a feasible evade tank in an MMO in years... and glass cannon types aren't tanks. And to your earlier point -- there actually was a Monster Hunter MMO in China that never even made it to Japan and shut down after a few years. Not everything lends itself to the MMORPG format. Trying to coordinate 4/8/10/12 people through soulslike mechanics sounds downright hellish even if some narou writer decides its a good idea. I say that as someone who has been playing MMO for like 20 years and for better or worse has some fairly strong opinions on the genre.

Anyway speaking of narou its kind of interesting that this is getting adapted directly from the WN -- a LN version was never published. I wonder if that'll be the norm going forward.

[Tenzen12]

Fire emblem, Super Robot Wars, Baldur's Gate, Kamidori Alchemist, any Soulborn game... oh you want limit it only to MMORPGs? I can't help you with that.

Also I never took personaly you comparing Sunraku to Maple. You made comparison that doesn't make sense and I corrected you. Then you explode.

[Twi]

Gotta admit I didn't see this anime being the one that sparked a pages long argument at the start of the season. I thought it would be niche if anything.

And for everyone talking about exploits and such, again, maybe we should wait to see how said increase in money and drops actually affect the story before jumping through hoops?

This is a lot of arguing about mechanics for a game he hasn't even been inside of within a day.

[grecefar]

I think it's more say the wrong thing and it sparks the discussion.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Fire emblem, Super Robot Wars, Baldur's Gate, Kamidori Alchemist, any Soulborn game... oh you want limit it only to MMORPGs? I can't help you with that.

Now I'm kinda curious -- do you actually play MMORPG at all?

Originally Posted by Twi

This is a lot of arguing about mechanics for a game he hasn't even been inside of within a day.

I didn't expect an offhand Maple comparison would blow up how it did but my opinion is still that the entire setting seems like a bunch of single player concepts incoherently thrown into a MMORPG shell because its a narou. Its especially jarring considering how much the prologue went into comparing the kusoge he's used to and the supposed kamige that is SLF. Maybe the concept becomes more coherent further on, but I kinda doubt I'll be here for it. To each their own.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by Twi

Gotta admit I didn't see this anime being the one that sparked a pages long argument at the start of the season. I thought it would be niche if anything.

And for everyone talking about exploits and such, again, maybe we should wait to see how said increase in money and drops actually affect the story before jumping through hoops?

This is a lot of arguing about mechanics for a game he hasn't even been inside of within a day.

As I said last page, this is the same embarrassing development as Dendrogram.
Sunraku getting bashed for his luck evade build and getting called Narou power fantasy is identical to how Ray got bashed for pulling a Maiden from the Embryo gacha and get called power fantasy.
It is the same name calling pattern that jumps to conclusion on ep.1 that triggers the stuff.

[Tactics]

Originally Posted by Rinvelt

SLF is about being able to play freely, so giving the option to do that isn't an exploit, just a possibility that Sunraku took.

My issue come from how the situation presented on first episode.

SLF is hailed as kamige but Luck Evade build exists and potent enough (may better at triggering rare skill acquisition or rare encounter compare to other build) especially for experienced players which IMO if it truly such game notable enough to be recorded on Guiness then naturally it will be patched. This is why I didn't feel weird with Stray opinions because in fact, MMORPG with notable exploit from start without any sidequest interaction like this will raise question regarding how it maintain world-record playerbase ... in real life; it would be amazing if there's no one raising torch and fork to developer because player with 100 Luck likely able to trigger rare event/loot/skill more frequent than player with 40 Luck because latter favor playing safe with Strength and Stamina.

Other topic presented is Sunraku skill which ... why kusoge otaku <=> glass cannon build expert?

As someone without any knowledge about source material but playing MMORPG, both combined caused weird impression, either: (1) author not playing MMORPG far enough than surface level or (2) what audience should be care about is not the MMORPG aspect; if this series go with (1), I'd like to see if author will elaborate more about VR in future so there's some understanding about why being kusoge expert known for lashing out his annoyances to NPC with glass cannon build represented freedom of choice in SLF if that's indeed the selling point everyone talking about instead of power fantasy, otherwise we're just running in circles pointing others-- maybe with more shapes like Hexagram or Pentagram.

[Twi]

Keep in mind that Sunraku never touched the game before so his basis for that build is personal preference. He didn't read a guide about it or anything, it's just how he wanted to play the game and he made assumptions based on his personal experience so far.

Again, it's a pointless discussion when the dude literally just logged in halfway into the episode. Maybe we wait until the story gets beyond the woods just outside of the starting town before everyone raises a fuss.

[frubam]

Well, quite the discussion =03. Not one I'll delve into, but was interesting regardless.

Art and animation were better than I expected. I was particularly impressed with the battle animations. The fight with the rabbit was really nicely done. I also like the game interface and the leveling system seems okay, albeit a bit easy? He shouldn't be getting to level 12 in the first area of the game, unless the level cap is really high(or even unlimited), especially solo. But I guess if his experience in super-difficult, shoddily-movement, trashy games can be acclimated to a newer, more responsive game, I could give him benefit of the doubt that those experiences can give him an advantage. This being said, I'll won't be surprised call bs when he defeats the snake; even if he is 2 levels above, its a boss monster, so going solo, the boss should still overpower him. Oh well... I just want to see people amazed that a dude wearing a bird head is stronger than them. Just as long as he isn't technically invincible.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by Tactics

My issue come from how the situation presented on first episode.

SLF is hailed as kamige but Luck Evade build exists and potent enough (may better at triggering rare skill acquisition or rare encounter compare to other build) especially for experienced players which IMO if it truly such game notable enough to be recorded on Guiness then naturally it will be patched. This is why I didn't feel weird with Stray opinions because in fact, MMORPG with notable exploit from start without any sidequest interaction like this will raise question regarding how it maintain world-record playerbase ... in real life; it would be amazing if there's no one raising torch and fork to developer because player with 100 Luck likely able to trigger rare event/loot/skill more frequent than player with 40 Luck because latter favor playing safe with Strength and Stamina.

Other topic presented is Sunraku skill which ... why kusoge otaku <=> glass cannon build expert?

As someone without any knowledge about source material but playing MMORPG, both combined caused weird impression, either: (1) author not playing MMORPG far enough than surface level or (2) what audience should be care about is not the MMORPG aspect; if this series go with (1), I'd like to see if author will elaborate more about VR in future so there's some understanding about why being kusoge expert known for lashing out his annoyances to NPC with glass cannon build represented freedom of choice in SLF if that's indeed the selling point everyone talking about instead of power fantasy, otherwise we're just running in circles pointing others-- maybe with more shapes like Hexagram or Pentagram.

Anime never said luck is related to evade. Just crit and drop rate.

As for why it isn't power fantasy... Because it's simply not inherently stronger then other builds? Sunraku probably has skill to became one of best players in game, but it's not really on level he is something special or undefeatable. I do believe power fantasy inherently require being better then anyone else and not having any real struggles. If your bar for Power Fantasy is lower then mine, then that's that.

[zztop]

What I find interesting is how Shangrila Frontier made the move from (ongoing) Syosetu WN --->Manga--->Anime while skipping the LN publication process.

Because I thought that normally a WN would first need to get a LN publication, before moving towards the manga and anime.

[Twi]

That is a bit weird, I'll admit. The Web Novel must have been really popular to skip that step.

[zztop]

Originally Posted by Twi

That is a bit weird, I'll admit. The Web Novel must have been really popular to skip that step.

Given Kodansha publishes LNs as well, it does make you wonder why they decided to make Shangrila the special case and rush it straight to weekly manga.

[Twi]

I still want to know why they canceled the Simupub for no reason.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by zztop

What I find interesting is how Shangrila Frontier made the move from (ongoing) Syosetu WN --->Manga--->Anime while skipping the LN publication process.

Because I thought that normally a WN would first need to get a LN publication, before moving towards the manga and anime.

If nothing else it explains stelar animation. Usually anime adaptation are not even glorified ad for novel. Given there is no novel studio is trying sell anime itself. I would assume It requires at least, but possibly more on true believers to get it green-lit

[scififan]

The protagonist prefers agility over defense. It reminds me about the berserker in dark soul/demon soul. Since the game's armor is like paper thin, running around in underwear is a better choice.

The protagonist finally have money to buy clothes in the second town. The poor girl who has crash on him constantly missing him. Her armor shows she already beats the game. So, she can go to any town easily.

One guy actually thought the online game as a good idea for dating. He invites his female friend to play the game with him.

[grecefar]

well, this isn't for me. It was a better chapter that the first one with some funny moments but still... I just can't stand the mc.

drop.

[magnuskn]

Same here. Too basic. Dropped.