[Manga] URAHARA Techniques / Bleach Databooks..help

[Zu Ra]

Yeah I was not specific on Balance I was using it to the pretext of Zanapkuto World , which lead to the confusion ^^

Edit :

However, I agree with your argument simply because, as seen from Ichigo's attempt to control his hollow, it seems as if a shinigami who gained hollow powers but loses dominance to it (king and his horse reference) can theoretically become an Arrancar.

Yeah a Vizard whose hollow side is more dominant like the last form of Ichigo in Vizard Basement

Spoiler for image:

Basement yet again , first Shoten basemnt then Vizard Basement , whats Bleach Universe's obcession with Basements

[NoSanninWa]

Good post Geta Boshi. Incidently I have mulled over exactly what the difference is between a vizard and a arancar. We were told that an arancar is a hollow that removed its mask while a vizard is a shinigami that put on a mask, but I think that was overly simplified and we might find out differently later on. After all, that picture was undeniably an arancar. If Ichigo can transform into an arancar than we know that the relevant detail is actually where the balance lays. This balance might prove to be an extremely important element.

This leads me to speculate that someone who is perfectly balanced between shinigami and hollow would have the greatest strength, able to use either shinigami techniques or hollow powers at will. This is probably the ultimate use of the hyougouko that requires Aizen to practice by creating all these arancar first.

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Vizard is super breed between a shinigami and a hollow with shinigami side slightly more dominant .

The word you meant to use is "hybrid." A vizard is a hybrid between a shinigami and a hollow.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa;

This leads me to speculate that someone who is perfectly balanced between shinigami and hollow would have the greatest strength, able to use either shinigami techniques or hollow powers at will. This is probably the ultimate use of the hyougouko that requires Aizen to practice by creating all these arancar first.

Earlier when numeros info came out there was an argument about the class Vastorode/Gillian . But recently with HQ Quality I was wrong I can concur

Spoiler for image:

The current crop of Numeros including Espada are of only Gillian class .. Vastordes arrancar have not been made yet . And the orignal sexta Grim and Shinji have not even gone to first release and shikai yet . Their respective second release/bankai would be a true coefficent or the true power of hybrids .

Just consider Vastorde Espada release or Hiyori's bankai that would be a treat to watch

The word you meant to use is "hybrid." A vizard is a hybrid between a shinigami and a hollow.

Yep .. ^^

[Varis]

maybe I'm not seeing it... but uraharas toy the hyougouko was supposedly not working yet... so how is aizen turning all those hollows into arrancar?

I know aizens crew is not just a bunch of rare hollows that put off their mask (came out of the closet?) because we saw grand fisher come back with a sword on his back.


so is the damn thing working or not?

[NoSanninWa]

It has been said that the hyougouko isn't working perfectly yet, but it isn't powerless. We haven't been told the exact difference between what Aizen is doing and what he wants to do. That's why I speculate that it will be able to create a being perfectly balanced between vizard and arancar.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by Varis

maybe I'm not seeing it... but uraharas toy the hyougouko was supposedly not working yet... so how is aizen turning all those hollows into arrancar?

With double taicho Level Leatsu he can make Hogyoku work and create arrancars . Aizen demonstrates it using Hogyoku while creating Wonderwice Margera

Spoiler for image:

I know aizens crew is not just a bunch of rare hollows that put off their mask (came out of the closet?) because we saw grand fisher come back with a sword on his back.

GrandFishcer was turned into an imperfect arrancar by Iceringer and is later used by Aizen as an experimental subject for the Hōgyoku. Other Imperfect Arrancars created by Aizen even before getting Hogyoku while in SS : Kaien's Hollow and also the Hollow that attacked Momo , Renji , Kira and Shuhei


Edit

[freakabcd]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Earlier when numeros info came out there was an argument about the class Vastorode/Gillian . But recently with HQ Quality I was wrong I can concur

Spoiler for image:

The current crop of Numeros including Espada are of only Gillian class .. Vastordes arrancar have not been made yet . And the orignal sexta Grim and Shinji have not even gone to first release and shikai yet . Their respective second release/bankai would be a true coefficent or the true power of hybrids .

Just consider Vastorde Espada release or Hiyori's bankai that would be a treat to watch

err.. who and when did anyone say the current espadas are _all_ gillian? Did you forget that there are Gillian -> Adjucas -> Vastrode (in terms of power level) hollows?

[Zu Ra]

But certainly not Vastorodes , there was an assumption earlier some were vastorodes among espada namely Grim and Ulqi

[freakabcd]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

But certainly not Vastorodes , there was an assumption earlier some were vastorodes among espada namely Grim and Ulqi

Ok. The way you put it felt like you were saying its either Gillian or Vastrode (nothing else). Also, we are not certain about adjucas among the Espada. To clarify the previous sentence: we don't know if #10 is an adjucas or just a very strong gillian. Or is it implied by Aizen that there are no gillians in the espada when he says 'They are only gillian' in that screencapture in a few posts earlier?

My speculation is that #1 (maybe #2 as well) is most likely a vastrode.

[Zu Ra]

Well seing the vast diffrence in power comaparing Luppi/Yammi ( first release ) to Ulqi/Grim ( no release) there were assumptions/speculations that the espada may consist of mixed classes of Arrancarnized Menos and Ulqi/Grim may be Vastode class .I too presumed that they were .

But according to this Info its not true Aizens plans to build another espada so called Perfected Espada consisting of only Vastorde class Arrancar

EDIT : Can it be that Ulqi/Grim are Adjucas class Arrancarnized Menos ??

[freakabcd]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Well seing the vast diffrence in power comaparing Luppi/Yammi ( first release ) to Ulqi/Grim ( no release) there were assumptions/speculations that the espada may consist of mixed classes of Arrancarnized Menos and Ulqi/Grim may be Vastode class .I too presumed that they were .

But according to this Info its not true Aizens plans to build another espada so called Perfected Espada consisting of only Vastorde class Arrancar

EDIT : Can it be that Ulqi/Grim are Adjucas class Arrancarnized Menos ??

Well, thats what I was getting at. #1 (and maybe #2) are vastrode, the rest adjucas (given the huge power difference) and maybe the last 1 or 2 (#9, #10) are very strong gillians.

[kagato3]

I belive we can safely say Grim is an Adjucas as Urahara told Ishida that the Arrancars that had come to earth with Grim were a mix of Gillians and Adjucas.

There are strong hints that Ulqi is a Vastrode and is Espada #1. (image of a Vastrode looks like him with a full mask, seems to be Aziens right hand hollow, setting in the spot #1 should be if the Espada were setting in order)

[WarpObscura]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

You forgot Vichigo , I think he doesnt call himself anything guess we call him all that . Retro : he was just called by us as Clone Hollow

You mean the one that appeared in the Vizard Basement while Ichigo was fighting Shirosaki?

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

Yes in case of Vizards its true, Arrancars I dont know . Actually for a perfectally balanced Vizard like Shinji or Hiyori , the hollow and the shinigami side are in perfect balance .

I mean remember ep 38/39 the Zangestu world had Clone hollow and Zangestu , thats what I meant by a perfect balance . For a vizard the Clone Hollow side and Shinigami side ( ie Zangestu ) are in perfect balance without one super imposing the other . If one side is more dominant you are more likely to have that side's powers more ( Vichigo ) or ( Shinigami Ichigo ).

Ichigo has no idea he is a Vizard he thinks / he belives he is a Shinigami . And his inablity to control clone hollow side results in his hollow becoming more dominant at the end taking over Zangestu world . The Vizard Inc teach him how to control his hollow side but only for 13 seconds in combat .

Genrally for a Vizard the Shinigami side is more dominant and for an Arrancar the Hollow side

I cannot remember the Zangetsu world with both Zangetsu and Shirosaki. Could you please spare a scan?

I suppose then that in order to draw on his full power and thus do the crazy stuff "Vichigo" could like insane regeneration speed, Ichigo will have to achieve this "perfect" balance. Is this right?

[Zu Ra]

Vichigo == Vizard + Ichigo ,somewhat like the term Hichigo . Clone Hollow Vs Ichigo in Zangestu world with Zanegstu still exsisitant

Bleach-39

[WarpObscura]

Should it not be Arichigo or something like that, given that the Ichigo with the fast-regenerating claw arms seems more like an Arrancar than a Vizard?

I see the thumbnails... So it did not occur in the manga, is that the case? Do remind me.

[Zu Ra]

Originally Posted by WarpObscura

Should it not be Arichigo or something like that, given that the Ichigo with the fast-regenerating claw arms seems more like an Arrancar than a Vizard?

No that condition is Hollow Ichi tottaly in control of Ichi . Whats happening in Zangestu world has a direct influence on Ichigo . The Clone Hollow had taken over Zangetsu world thus the effect in Real World ie Hollow Ichi to the Max

I see the thumbnails... So it did not occur in the manga, is that the case? Do remind me.

It happened in the manga and the anime (ep 39) I dont remember manga chapter but I can get back to you on that

[WarpObscura]

Oh, okay, I think I understand better what you mean. Thanks for the clarification.

[LoOnatick]

Originally Posted by NoSanninWa

This leads me to speculate that someone who is perfectly balanced between shinigami and hollow would have the greatest strength, able to use either shinigami techniques or hollow powers at will. This is probably the ultimate use of the hyougouko that requires Aizen to practice by creating all these arancar first.

You know, after reading your theory, it hit me.

Spoiler:

Vizard - A hybrid between shinigami and hollow in which the shinigami side stays dominant. At this point, I'm thinking. Since the shinigami side stays dominant, the Vizards do not possess the full potential ability of the hollow.

Arrancar - A hybrid between hollow and shinigami in which the hollow side stays dominant. Since the hollow side stays dominant, the Arrancars do not possess the full potential ability of a shinigami (Which would probably explain their unusual release). However, since none of the Espadas have shown their release (Except for Luppi/Ruppi) we don't know their abilities.

So what does this mean? One who is in perfect balance between shinigami and hollow, a perfect hybrid (Like Ichigo for instance) holds the most power. If the 2 theories above are true ("if") then that means this perfect hybrid would hold the true potential abilities of both shinigami and hollow.

This is just a theory that hit me after reading this quote XD. Probably some one had already post it.

[BleachOD]

Although Ichigo looks like an arrancar in that pic.

I don't think he can transform into and Arrancar type. I think that he almost turned into a hollow once again (Like the time when he got his own powers)
It peeled off of him, I believe that is what Ichigo would have turned into had W'Ichigo won. But he didn't so Ichigo retained the mask but did not become a full blown hollow.

To me Arrancar and Vizards are the same, a blend of Shinigami and Hollows

Vizards,while gaining a Hollow still retain their humanity
Arrancars, while gaining shingami power and are no longer beings of instinct, are still devoid of humanity.

I just thought of something what if one those Hollow's were shingami before they became hollows, and were later turned into arrancar?

I do believe that Ulq is a Vastrode....He looks the most human and doesn't really have a mask...it looks more like a helmet. Also that Ukitake triplet (There is a Shinigami one, a Vizard one and now and Arrancar) Looks very Human so I think he may be a Vastrode too


As far as Aizen goes...He has to be a Vizard! No way would a someone as diabolical as he is...going to create beings that are stronger then himself.
And if he isn't and can't create anything that is stronger than himself...The what the hell does he need the Hougyoku for?

I belive Tousen and the other's are his guinea pigs, but He used it on himself too.

Urahara has to be one...He created it, He always tried experiments on himself first...it had to have been a sucess...I belive he made the others as well. (They may even be former squad members)

Gin, the verdict is still out ...because in the Manga he seems more like Aizen's eqaul than suboordinate.

I think that he may be the manipulative, sneaky type that may let Aizen think he is the boss, when all the time he has a plan and is the real bad ass (That's just wishful thinking I know...but I like Gin)

[Half Demon]

First Theory : Urahara's Banishment

wouldn’t it be possible if indeed Urahara was the first guinea pig to try it whether it was successful like earlier?

it could be true because as u said that he wasnt surprised one bit when he saw ichigo in a hollow form, probably the same thing happened to urahara when he used hogoko on himself. he knew that ichigo might turn half death god/hollow because resistence to become complete hollow would end u up in half death god and hollow. we dont know exactly about urahara since he was genius.