AnimeSuki Forums

alpha3six · 2006-10-26, 14:26

Warning, rant mode: on!

I prefer balance using points values, not balance through artificial weaknesses. For a game that used to have such strong backstory, it really doesn't make sense from a writer's perspective to saddle armies with fatal flaws to balance out their strengths. In the transistion between editions, the various Imperial forces came out very well overall because they didn't suffer any radical equipment changes or capability reductions for their rank and file, with the exception of Space Marines who lost their rapid fire ability. Though this was more than made up for with the new staying power of marines under the new AP system.

Things were a lot worse for the Eldar seeing how the range of their shuriken catapault was cut in half (bringing them into that lethal 12" distance) and forced them to charge first into close combat or be charged by the enemy. I understand this was to force the Eldar to fight aggressively at close range but this style of fighting is kinda insane for a dying race that can't afford to suffer losses. And this came on top of an overall armor reduction for Eldar infantry.

Waves of light infantry charging into close range?

The Eldar used to have superb technology that enabled them to field vehicles that were fast and well armored. Now their battle tanks are about as flimsy as thin skinned APCs. Their Titans were once extremely durable thanks to their wraithbone construction but now they're pretty much as well protected as their tanks are (in Epic). The only remnant of the old days where Eldar tech produced tough and reliable machines is the Wraithlord...but people keep complaining about how the Wraithlord needs to be balanced because everybody knows the Eldar are "flimsy" and should take heavy casualties to remain a dying race.

Rant mode: Off.

Diaboso · 2006-10-26, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha3six

The Eldar used to have superb technology that enabled them to field vehicles that were fast and well armored. Now their battle tanks are about as flimsy as thin skinned APCs. Their Titans were once extremely durable thanks to their wraithbone construction but now they're pretty much as well protected as their tanks are (in Epic). The only remnant of the old days where Eldar tech produced tough and reliable machines is the Wraithlord...but people keep complaining about how the Wraithlord needs to be balanced because everybody knows the Eldar are "flimsy" and should take heavy casualties to remain a dying race.

Rant mode: Off.

Well then your going to love this news. the new eldar codex just came out and the wraithLord is now officialy not the bad boy any more the brought its toughness down from 8 to 6 so it went from near unkillable to a large fuzzy bunny.

though they did raise the wraith gaurd from 5 to 6 and the wraith lord has an awsome sword that makes it reroll failed to hit rolls (^^)

Illuyankas · 2006-10-26, 19:36

And apparently Dire Avengers now have an 18'' catapult range, which is nice. Is the Avatar any good now?

Radiosity · 2006-10-26, 20:23

The Avatar will never be as awesome as it originally was. Hell, it could easily go toe to toe with a greater daemon of Khorne and stand a good chance of winning back in the day. I dread to think how nerfed it is now

I kinda want to ask what the awesome Warp Spiders are like now, but I'm afraid of the answer heh.

Oh yeah, and IIRC, the psychic powers were basically nerfed into oblivion weren't they? I used to love fielding Eldrad Ultran because his powers were incredible (plus I used to play against Marines a lot and those Librarians really used to pi$$ me off

so Eldrad was handy).

It's not like I'll ever get back into it now, but honestly the new generation of GW gamers don't know what they were missing.

rooboy · 2006-10-26, 21:08

They've been nerfing powerful single models (mainly characters, but also things like avatars and demons - this includes reducing the power of magic in WHFB and psychic powers in WH40K) for a while now. Personally I like that, but I could see how it would irritate some people.

But then I generally always preferred Clan War anyway - I'd rather have my leaders give my units powers rather than having powers on their own.

Diaboso · 2006-10-27, 15:43

The eldar used to be the best race around now its you win by a long shot or you lose horribaly.

I dont colect them because space elfs vs a 8' man the SM would break them over their knee.

Tabris · 2006-10-28, 14:35

One thing I've always wanted to play since I first heard about it a couple of months ago. Movie rules marines, nothing would be funnier than having one squad of tactical marines decimate an entire army.

alpha3six · 2006-10-28, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabris

One thing I've always wanted to play since I first heard about it a couple of months ago. Movie rules marines, nothing would be funnier than having one squad of tactical marines decimate an entire army.

After that, could play its exact opposite: Space Hulk first edition with all the expansions.

Poor Terminators outnumbered and outgunned by hordes of genestealers and psychic hybrids armed with meltaguns, plasma guns, missile launchers, etc etc

Radiosity · 2006-10-28, 15:03

Not to mention Chaos Dreadnoughts

2006-10-26, 21:08	Link #45
rooboy Umeboshi! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tejas Age: 48	They've been nerfing powerful single models (mainly characters, but also things like avatars and demons - this includes reducing the power of magic in WHFB and psychic powers in WH40K) for a while now. Personally I like that, but I could see how it would irritate some people. But then I generally always preferred Clan War anyway - I'd rather have my leaders give my units powers rather than having powers on their own. __________________

2006-10-26, 14:26	Link #41
alpha3six 913-D Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: New Jersey USA	Warning, rant mode: on! I prefer balance using points values, not balance through artificial weaknesses. For a game that used to have such strong backstory, it really doesn't make sense from a writer's perspective to saddle armies with fatal flaws to balance out their strengths. In the transistion between editions, the various Imperial forces came out very well overall because they didn't suffer any radical equipment changes or capability reductions for their rank and file, with the exception of Space Marines who lost their rapid fire ability. Though this was more than made up for with the new staying power of marines under the new AP system. Things were a lot worse for the Eldar seeing how the range of their shuriken catapault was cut in half (bringing them into that lethal 12" distance) and forced them to charge first into close combat or be charged by the enemy. I understand this was to force the Eldar to fight aggressively at close range but this style of fighting is kinda insane for a dying race that can't afford to suffer losses. And this came on top of an overall armor reduction for Eldar infantry. Waves of light infantry charging into close range? The Eldar used to have superb technology that enabled them to field vehicles that were fast and well armored. Now their battle tanks are about as flimsy as thin skinned APCs. Their Titans were once extremely durable thanks to their wraithbone construction but now they're pretty much as well protected as their tanks are (in Epic). The only remnant of the old days where Eldar tech produced tough and reliable machines is the Wraithlord...but people keep complaining about how the Wraithlord needs to be balanced because everybody knows the Eldar are "flimsy" and should take heavy casualties to remain a dying race. Rant mode: Off.

2006-10-26, 19:36	Link #43
Illuyankas I need another drink. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beer. Boobs. Wait... boobs again.	And apparently Dire Avengers now have an 18'' catapult range, which is nice. Is the Avatar any good now?

2006-10-26, 20:23	Link #44
Radiosity Sexy Tornado Artist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The European Bunion Age: 45	The Avatar will never be as awesome as it originally was. Hell, it could easily go toe to toe with a greater daemon of Khorne and stand a good chance of winning back in the day. I dread to think how nerfed it is now I kinda want to ask what the awesome Warp Spiders are like now, but I'm afraid of the answer heh. Oh yeah, and IIRC, the psychic powers were basically nerfed into oblivion weren't they? I used to love fielding Eldrad Ultran because his powers were incredible (plus I used to play against Marines a lot and those Librarians really used to pi$$ me off so Eldrad was handy). It's not like I'll ever get back into it now, but honestly the new generation of GW gamers don't know what they were missing.

2006-10-27, 15:43	Link #46
Diaboso we girls arnt safe! Artist Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: In the space between your walls Age: 36	The eldar used to be the best race around now its you win by a long shot or you lose horribaly. I dont colect them because space elfs vs a 8' man the SM would break them over their knee.

2006-10-28, 14:35	Link #47
Tabris Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 35	One thing I've always wanted to play since I first heard about it a couple of months ago. Movie rules marines, nothing would be funnier than having one squad of tactical marines decimate an entire army.

2006-10-28, 15:03	Link #49
Radiosity Sexy Tornado Artist Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The European Bunion Age: 45	Not to mention Chaos Dreadnoughts