[Manga] Chapter 329 Discussion

[flexx]

Originally Posted by Syaoran

That's also what I had in mind... It's the most logical explanation. If Yondaime didn't know how to use kage bunshin to do this, I think the author forgot how Yondaime is supposed to be a legend, a genius and an example to look up to.

But since Naruto is N°1 at surprising people, he could come up with something we don't expect (let's hope ^^)

yeah - let's hope so.
It reminds me, when everybody was sure, that naruto's training would be in another dimension. And then it was with kagebunshins.

[Slayerx]

World Domination eh? Meh...

Though i'm reminded of the question as to what importance the atasuki rings have... I mean, there has t some kind of importance, or Oro would not bother to keep his ring, and Ataksuki would be able to have ten members despite the loss of Oro's ring... There are 9 demons and if you include Oro's missing ring, there are supposed to be 10 members... Since atasuki was orginally formed to have ten members, it does not really add up to each of them having a demon control

Originally Posted by flexx

Hidan couldn't be a member of akatsuki when orochimaru was. Cause Deidara was the replacement for Orochimaru.
And Hidan said himself, that he is the newest member of the organzisation after Tobi. So Orochimaru had already left when hidan joined the group.

Not nessasarily... Deidara only took Oro's place as Sasori's partner, but not Oro's place within atasuki. There are ten rings, and thus ten members... Oro however kept his ring and thus was never actually replaced...

It's easy to think that Deidara was in atasuki at the same time as Oro, just with a different partner... after Oro left, Sasori was left without a partner because without the tenth ring, he couldn't be given a proper replacement... So Atasuki decided to simply rearranged their members so that Sasori would have a partner(Deidara)

[tatami]

sooo now akatsuki in naruto is like patriots in metal gear...
well for me thats was lame..i mean the story is used so much before...i expected more original idea from kishi...starting to loose my respect to the serie...

[flexx]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Not nessasarily... Deidara only took Oro's place as Sasori's partner, but not Oro's place within atasuki. There are ten rings, and thus ten members... Oro however kept his ring and thus was never actually replaced...

It's easy to think that Deidara was in atasuki at the same time as Oro, just with a different partner... after Oro left, Sasori was left without a partner because without the tenth ring, he couldn't be given a proper replacement... So Atasuki decided to simply rearranged their members so that Sasori would have a partner(Deidara)

This would mean they ripped an old group apart just to give sasori a partner. Seems unlikely.
Cause with 9 members you always have 1 who is left alone.

[Ryuujin]

In the end, Akatsuki wants to control wars and be the one who gets all the profit from it.

Akatsuki wants to be LOGOS?

>_> Well, they can't be any worse at it than LOGOS was (RIP Destroy Gundams, you deserved better )...

[omegastar]

Speaking of worlds... I've lost so much respect for Akatsuki, taking over the world? OMG is that cliché or what! I mean omg that’s their final goal? OMG I feel like my life is over (jk) and Naruto has turned in to a bad world domination film! Seriously.. WTF MASASHI KISHIMOTO WTF YOU LET ME DOWN !!!!!

One of these days, I'd like for an evil mastermind to have a normal goal, like wanting to meet ladies or something.

Akatsuki's goal of world domination - Kishi used his brother's expression in 666 satan, honestly, I am highly disappointed. I thought collecting all those bijuus would result in a better goal, creating a new bijuu that might grant eternal life, open a door to a new dimension, etc. Also, I am more disappointed with Itachi, joining to such organization for such a silly goal so that he can be commanded by another person/organization very much similar to how it was in Konoha.

*These are only some of the replies here, but they are all about the same thing*

I would like to ask everyone who is dissapointed with Akatsuki's goal and/or bashing how Naruto has degraded and blah, blah, blah:
What else did you expect? Can you come up with something better?

An evil organization will always seek one sole thing: POWER. Call it conquering the world, call it destroying it, call it seizing mythical beasts... it's all the same. An evil group is, well, evil... and it would be illogical to want other things like a so-called 'normal' goal.

I think it would be nice if all these "OMG-wtf-this-sux" people asked themselves that question highlighted before. Naruto is a good anime, but it's a shonen anime, and an Anime. Don't expect marvelous things that have never been done before, nor that it will take otakus/fanboys/readers to the next level of evolution or anything.
Heck, even Dewey in Eureka Seven wanted to rule a perfect world in the end.

[tatami]

"What else did you expect? Can you come up with something better?"
thats not our job that is kishimato s job.

well it could have keep it as a secret and made a shock in end...like...ummm nerv in neon genesis evangelion? or other likes..

[Wrath of the Uchiha]

I think I am now convinces AL is the main villian rather than Orochimaru. His goals overall are waay bigger :/

As for Naruto's training, was there any doubt he would use a bunshin to complete the jutsu, lmao@kakashi though to look left while looking right :P

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by DJ*

Why do people seem to be assuming that Hidan is immortal?

Did I miss the part that said he doesn't age?

It has never been stated how old Hidan was, but something's off. He may or may not age, but we do know that the village he comes from is unknown. Whether it is unknown by characters what the village symbol means or if it's meant to be to be unknown due to it being a country of many years past is unknown as well.

All I know is that he can't be killed by a beheading or piercing in the heart. If that's not some form of immortality, I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by Syaoran

That's also what I had in mind... It's the most logical explanation. If Yondaime didn't know how to use kage bunshin to do this, I think the author forgot how Yondaime is supposed to be a legend, a genius and an example to look up to.

But since Naruto is N°1 at surprising people, he could come up with something we don't expect (let's hope ^^)

I think this is the point where we have to give Naruto more credit and overall, the point of Kakashi's training. I would love to think that Kakashi had that course of action for Naruto to perform the complete rasengan. This means that:

1. Naruto defied the laws of space and time by taking a little over 6 months in 1 day to train and perform the complete rasengan.

2. Of course, Kyubi is involved in the process of all of this, something Yondiame didn't have.

3. We may be underestimating how tiresome wind manipulation and the rasengan is.

4. Has it actually been stated how much time existed between the time Yondiame worked to complete the rasengan and his time of death?


I think this chapter and this training has proven a lot of things.

1. Naruto is more special and skilled than we originally thought. Something so simple is obviously something only Naruto has the capacity to do.

2. We also learned that the .0001% chance that this AL is Yondiame just went out the door. One can argue that his extent of knowledge on building a franchise seems Hokage like, but if the AL was Yondiame and he wanted world domination, all he'd have to do is walk through the f****** front door of Konoha and take back his position. Sarutobi would have been glad to give it to him. So it's official everyone, and this goes even to myself, those who still believed at this point, even after the beard and goatee, that the chance still exist that Yondiame could still be the leader, is gone.

3. AL's shadow looks so much like Naruto that his longness for brotherhood with Sasuke may be substituted by this guy. The AL may be some kin to Naruto. Or one of Naruto's KBs that got too old too fast after learning all the information from the countless KBs Naruto has done since first doing it the first chapter of the manga.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Syaoran

That's also what I had in mind... It's the most logical explanation. If Yondaime didn't know how to use kage bunshin to do this, I think the author forgot how Yondaime is supposed to be a legend, a genius and an example to look up to.

That was the topic of a fake spoiler a few weeks ago. If that becomes the case, Kishi would really be considered as running out of creative ideas.

Originally Posted by omegastar

I would like to ask everyone who is dissapointed with Akatsuki's goal and/or bashing how Naruto has degraded and blah, blah, blah:
What else did you expect? Can you come up with something better?

Believe me even a kid that has some creativity would come up with a better idea, if he had spent on the story as much as Kishi. What Akatsuki aims is not much different what the other countries would want. You expect them to be different, but they are not different from the others. Using bijuu to create wars, instead of using bijuu to obtain powers that cannot be obtained using normal means (even significant power upgrade together with eternal life would have been a much better goal).

Well it was time to deflate the Akatsuki balloon, and it happened quite easily.

Originally Posted by tramadrama

3. AL's shadow looks so much like Naruto that his longness for brotherhood with Sasuke may be substituted by this guy. The AL may be some kin to Naruto.

His father or Yondaime's brother, maybe.


On Rasengan and training: That Rasengan may not have been one handed, as we haven't seen the formation of it. And Naruto finished nearly 1 year of training in one day (assuming 16 hours of training per day), I wonder if Yondaime had that much training time to use on upgrading Rasengan...

[ILikeSquiReLz]

Good chapter all and all. I couldn't help notice that his plans sounds oh so familiar. The very ideal of Roots are rather mirrored.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by tramadrama

2. We also learned that the .0001% chance that this AL is Yondiame just went out the door. One can argue that his extent of knowledge on building a franchise seems Hokage like, but if the AL was Yondiame and he wanted world domination, all he'd have to do is walk the the f****** front door of Konoha and take back his position. Sarutobi would have been glad to give it to him. So it's official everyone, and this goes even to myself, those who still believed at this point, even after the beard and goatee, that the chance still exist that Yondiame could still be the leader, is gone.

Leading Konoha as Hokage is not the same as world domination. Hokages are still under the command of the country's fedual lord. Even if that weren't so, I doubt the ninja of Konoha would serve under someone who's intentions were to start war with the other countries. So one couldn't use their position to take over the world. Also, don't forget that the leader corrected Hidan when he called the people of Konoha heathens. I also highly doubt that AL is Yondaime at this point, but that plot point doesn't totally kill the theory.

[tramadrama]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Leading Konoha as Hokage is not the same as world domination. Hokages are still under the command of the country's fedual lord. Even if that weren't so, I doubt the ninja of Konoha would serve under someone who's intentions were to start war with the other countries. So one couldn't use their position to take over the world. Also, don't forget that the leader corrected Hidan when he called the people of Konoha heathens. I also highly doubt that AL is Yondaime at this point, but that plot point doesn't totally kill the theory.

The AL leader has three steps to rule the world, right? Wouldn't being Hokage make that a speedy resolve? What I'm saying is that, and this is on the premise of if the AL were Yondiame:

1. Yondaime has been dead for nearly 15 years. If he were not dead, he would have walked back in to Konoha. That would give him 15 years to shape Konoha into the image that the AL leader is planning.

2. One of the Akatsuki members happend to kill his entire clan in one night. I highly think that Akatsuki can kill an entire village in a course of three weeks with one being "somewhat" immortal and the rest of the S-Class crew. They could take an entire country in months.

3. Basically, if the AL were Yondaime, this plan could have been implemented years ago. A small step of being Hokage would have ultimately lead to world domination if he wanted it to be. All he had to do was call in the right cleanup crew. If the AL is trying to create a village, he'd need to have some scumbag citizens.

It would have ultimately worked. That's what I mean about the Yondaime being completely eliminated in this chapter.

[fict_ticious]

*yawn* to the generic motivaiton of the Akatsuki. So they're just a couple of industrialists who figure out war is a big business - not a notion very new to us (I know there are others that predate this, but first thing that came to mind was Metal Gear Solid, lol).
I was really hoping that there may have been a deeper meaning to what they were doing, since it involved the need for the tailed beasts. Then again, what other use are they for but for destructive purposes?
I'm beginning to think this may be some sort of a political metaphor. Right now shinobi countries are autonomous, with (or so they claim) the whole system of ninja missions as the major source of income (aside: I think it was established - though I question how canon this is - that even people outside their own country can hire them). They aim to change all this by monopolizing this service - by rallying the support of "the little guy" - giving them even greater pull on the outcome of things. ?????, then WORLD DOMINATION, BABY! Perhaps that Danzou might express his interest in selling out Konoha for a seat of power, if he ever learns of Akatsuki's goal.

Boring stuff aside, Naruto really is quite the little devil. First off, he's got himself watching his own back XD. Second, Kyuybi doesn't seem to be tied down to any one Naruto, so it's possible that this guy can take down an entire country himself (if his body can handle it, that is). Not so much a tank as he is a nuclear missile... WITH LEGS! The whole look both ways thing, maybe he's just figured out another way to spam Kage bunshin, perhaps having a clone inject the element while he himself forms the basis to Rasengan. In any case, his personal story I find more interesting but aside from that, in the bigger scheme of things, Naruto can become a great war hero like a certain Hokage whom his existance is - though unclear - ultimately tied to.

[Yogi]

So, Akatsuki wants to create Outer Heaven? Not the most original idea, or the most necessary. Is it really that hard to start up wars?

[tatami]

its not hard to start them but controlling them...yet still lame

[Ryuujin]

Originally Posted by fict_ticious

(aside: I think it was established - though I question how canon this is - that even people outside their own country can hire them).

iirc, that was a factor in Sand's allying with Sound to attack Leaf, wasn't it?

[Mists]

Yeah how original is this? I have to say, for some reason this seems like the worst chapter ever. There is basically no emotional attachment, it looks like Kishimoto forgot how to draw Naruto or just suddenly got bored.

I'm still waiting for what Naruto learned with Jiyara, but he is as dumb as ever and he basically admits Rasengan is still extremely hard.

Plus the unoriginality of Akatsuki...Before they seemed badass...but now it seems like they're merely human.

Did Itachi really kill all his clan for this? I for some reason find it hard to believe and all of a sudden all these badasses turn into wusses. Where's the drama, where's the threat? The ultimate goal seems so "Blah" and now that almost every akatsuki member introduced...ugh this couldn't be more cliche!

Asuma's death was almost for nothing! It was to prevent world domination! Blah.......

[Zek]

What I don't understand is why it took Naruto 4,800 hours to come up with the idea to use a clone to put elemental chakra into the Rasengan. Same goes for Kakashi, who apparently didn't even realize he was giving Naruto a hint.

[Luminion Lancer]

-Well in all honesty the Akatsuki's ultimate goal is sort of lame and un-interesting but when you have a group of people that work with each other simply to accomplish their own agendas this ultimate goal is in fact the best choice. If you follow the Akatsuki Leader's line "I don't care for the reasons as to why you joined my side. Hatred, money, power, love I just don't care", this would ultimately proclaim that there are 8 (or is it 9) individual goals among the Akatsuki. Too bad for them their plans are destined to fail. Not because this is a manga and the hero always saves the world from evil but because this is how the world works. If you look at history you should be aware that all leaders who desired the world always failed and eventually their accomplishments crumbled away. Look at Julius Caeser, Alexander the Great or even Hitler. All of these individuals wanted to control the world and failed. Absolute power has an absolute end. There is no such thing as an never-ending power.

-That aside it would seem that Yugito is in fact still alive. I can't help but hope that she'll manage to escape but her chances do not look so good. Man it's kind of funny, after being shown in about 2 chapters she already gained a fanbase. Won't all those fans be disappointed when she dies?