[SE Change] When Kira Joins ZAFT...

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Gilbert was riding shotgun on the Minerva at Heaven's Base.

Nah, he was riding more than just 'shotgun'... *snicker*

- Tak

[cloudedge]

@ wingofdarkness

it's actually funny, Kira in GS is all right for me... the angst goody-two-toe who fight to protect his friends... I actually like Kira of GSD over Kira of GS under a few (possibly VERY FLAWED now that Kira swapped side) assumptions that Kira made all his decisions for HIMSELF in GSD W/O the influenced of some pink hair popstar.

I find the arrogant selfish minor siscon hidden behind the stotic face to be rather endearing ^^; Unlike Lacus and Athrun who tend to give off the air that they're defending justice and trying to take humanity to the "RIGHT" path... at least Kira in GSD seems to be honest about the fact that he doesn't know wtf he's doing, and is sort of just acting on impulse. (i.e. kidnapping Cagalli, interrupting in eps 23/28)

Again... this is under the assumption that he made those choices himself w/o being pawn to Lacus... despite his gentle soft spoken nature, I tend to see Kira of GSD to be a pretty bad ass character who did what he does because he wants to (i.e. it makes the people important to him feel better - [read: Cagalli]) and he knows he can do it.

Both Kira and Cagalli seems to be the people who are more concern about their immediate circles and tend to make decisions based experience with them... unlike Athrun and Lacus who tends to be more concern with the lofty ideals of purpose of existences and the way humanity should be =.=

[Nightengale]

Kira has always made his own decisions. Hell, he decides the things to do during the first half of GSD such as deploying Archangel away from ORB and kidnapping Cagalli (( except Cagalli's stupid sortie to talk ORB out of attacking Minerva, though Kira constented...brotherly luv )). Sure, he sugar-coated everything he did with the technical "I don't if it's right or wrong, but something >>> nothing" talk, but Lacus didn't decide to return to being the Queen until she thought it was fun to cosplay Meer and started building DOMs, S.Freedom and I.Justice.

The latter half of GSD was more or less Lacus-tinted in everything EVERYONE (( refering to the good guys )) was doing, but that doesn't denounce the fact that Kira is blindly influenced, but rather reinforces that despite all the things Kira did from clueless kid to inexperienced general, he still didn't know WHAT THE HELL he should be doing, which was why he did semi-doubt about their decision to stop DP in a worldly sense, but he does personally feel that what Gilbert is doing is wrong, so he simply placed his faith in someone who KNOWS WHAT THE HELL SHE IS DOING...Lacus.

Why the hell certain people assosiate Kira siding with Lacus out of his own will as Kira = Lacus drone simply because they fight for same reasons bafffles me. No one calls Yzak a Lacus drone (( fanboy maybe )) when he just all of a sudden switches side mid-battle or anything like that. So why Kira?

[dragoonfj123]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

What I´m interested in is why Kira joins ZAFT. His reasons for joining the side that´s been his enemy for more or less the entire time during the two wars. But I got to say that it´s nice to see that Kira of all people (considering his history with ZAFT) gets a higher rank right away than Shinn.

That picture, by the way, is from..?

And I see Athrun finally decided to stay as an Orb officer aswell. These things makes my hopes for the movie rise a bit. It would be kind of fun to see Kira lead a group in battle consisting of Shinn and Lunamaria.

Kira would only join ZAFT because in the final eps of GSD Lacus was offered to come back to PLANT under some condition, in which she accept.

[cloudedge]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

The latter half of GSD was more or less Lacus-tinted in everything EVERYONE (( refering to the good guys )) was doing, but that doesn't denounce the fact that Kira is blindly influenced, but rather reinforces that despite all the things Kira did from clueless kid to inexperienced general, he still didn't know WHAT THE HELL he should be doing, which was why he did semi-doubt about their decision to stop DP in a worldly sense, but he does personally feel that what Gilbert is doing is wrong, so he simply placed his faith in someone who KNOWS WHAT THE HELL SHE IS DOING...Lacus.

My complain to this is that, what makes Kira thinks that Lacus knows what the hell she's doing. We were shown nothing about Factory and Terminal and how the hell she knows what she knows other than the DB notebook. Her words are always convoluted nonsense but they can always "enlighten" [read: confuses] whoever she speaks to to do her biddings... if that's not droning then I don't know what it is.

Originally Posted by Nightengale

Why the hell certain people assosiate Kira siding with Lacus out of his own will as Kira = Lacus drone simply because they fight for same reasons bafffles me. No one calls Yzak a Lacus drone (( fanboy maybe )) when he just all of a sudden switches side mid-battle or anything like that. So why Kira?

Like I've said, before Kira switch to ZAFT, the assumptions that he made the decision independent of Lacus influences can be valid... but now that he switch to ZAFT, it really doesn't seem that way. Kira is of Orb descent. All his ties are in Orb. His sister and family are from Orb. The ONLY reason that people were able to come up with for him to be in ZAFT is Lacus. You said he feel that doing something > nothing... my question is, how does being in ZAFT make him capable of doing more than being in Orb? He spend a good half of GS and the whole GSD fighting to protect Orb, now he's situating himself in a position that could possibly fight against Orb (ala Athrun's place in GSD). All these because of Lacus - so how can you not understand our frustration about Kira turning into a Lacus drone?

[Naive]

Originally Posted by cloudedge

Like I've said, before Kira switch to ZAFT, the assumptions that he made the decision independent of Lacus influences can be valid... but now that he switch to ZAFT, it really doesn't seem that way. Kira is of Orb descent. All his ties are in Orb. His sister and family are from Orb. The ONLY reason that people were able to come up with for him to be in ZAFT is Lacus. You said he feel that doing something > nothing... my question is, how does being in ZAFT make him capable of doing more than being in Orb? He spend a good half of GS and the whole GSD fighting to protect Orb, now he's situating himself in a position that could possibly fight against Orb (ala Athrun's place in GSD). All these because of Lacus - so how can you not understand our frustration about Kira turning into a Lacus drone?

I agree, this is why I find Athrun in Orb equally as unbelievable as Kira in ZAFT, which is what I wanted to talk about in the first place before everything went back to Lacus

If Kira joins ZAFT for Lacus sake only, then I think he's making a wrong decision. Not because I feel that Kira and Lacus shouldn't be together, and for that matter Athrun and Cagalli, but joining ZAFT is a heavy decision and he should expect to fight for not Lacus, but the PLANTs themselves. Lacus's will may not always equate to the PLANTs' will and ZAFT is a structured organization that represents the PLANTs and demands loyalty.

Unlike Athrun, if Kira was placed in a situation where he had to fight Orb, he wouldn't even think about and it immediately defect because he has more loyalty toward Orb and his sister than ZAFT and PLANT. For ZAFT's sake, that isn't a good thing because a military needs loyal soldiers.

I'll give Lacus the benefit of the doubt and presume Lacus has Kira's best interests at mind but Kira's personal history conflicts with ZAFT in so many ways. Not only literally, but the idea of joining an organization that represents a nation he has no connection to.

I think Lacus should not only think about what's best for Kira, but what's also best for ZAFT. No one's expecting Kira to be a loner and fight for his own ideals independent of those he cares for, but joining ZAFT for Lacus is too simple of an answer to the obvious question. There are many other things that Kira has to think about before joining ZAFT, such as loyalty to the military organization, his history of conflict against ZAFT, his relationship to PLANT, his relationship to Orb and what joining ZAFT really means for all of those.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

So... Just because Kira is not a solitary man living in his own world fighting for his own personal ideals that is not related to any other character, he's a bad character? No offence to anyone, but apparently it seems that very few people are trying to find a rational middle ground with Kira. It's either he becomes Lacus Drone #4685604 or he is his own man in his own world. LOL.

I agree. Kira isn't in an either/or situation with regard to deciding things. He tends to be more of a team player interested in looking for a consensus with the people he confers with than in insisting on people accepting his views on situations.

Originally Posted by neovu79

Wouldn't quite know. ZAFT uses a militia infrastructure not "regular military", so they don't use ranks to recognize their military leaders. Instead they use titles and variant uniforms.

It's also possible that ZAFT has a relatively loose uniform policy to go along with their loose rank structure. Higher-ranking officers have historically had a fair amount of leeway as to the exact details of the way they dress.

Originally Posted by Obi-Wan

Basically, ZAFT's military is mainly run by their military space station (that hollowed out, cylindrical colony thing shown a lot during the series), or the Council can give executive orders. So basically the closest thing to a General ZAFT has is like when Gilbert was riding shotgun on the Minerva at Heaven's Base.

Perhaps the purple-uniformed members of ZAFT can be thought of as the general staff.

Originally Posted by cloudedge

My complain to this is that, what makes Kira thinks that Lacus knows what the hell she's doing. We were shown nothing about Factory and Terminal and how the hell she knows what she knows other than the DB notebook. Her words are always convoluted nonsense but they can always "enlighten" [read: confuses] whoever she speaks to to do her biddings... if that's not droning then I don't know what it is.

I'm not sure what you're talking about; are you thinking of any of Lacus' quotes in particular?

Originally Posted by cloudedge

Like I've said, before Kira switch to ZAFT, the assumptions that he made the decision independent of Lacus influences can be valid... but now that he switch to ZAFT, it really doesn't seem that way. Kira is of Orb descent. All his ties are in Orb. His sister and family are from Orb. The ONLY reason that people were able to come up with for him to be in ZAFT is Lacus. You said he feel that doing something > nothing... my question is, how does being in ZAFT make him capable of doing more than being in Orb?

The obvious answer for this is that Kira would feel that there's something that he can accomplish in PLANT that he could in Orb. The exact details of what this may be are uncertain until we get more details, there's not much that we can speculate upon.

Kira has never assumed that Orb was in the right just because it is his country. He's always looked more at either the bigger picture or more immediate concerns. If a war were to break out between PLANT and Orb, Kira is almost certain to pick the side (if he picks a side at all) that he felt was in the right.

[neilz]

Actually I was hoping that if ever they continue with this. The people of plants will know of Kira's existence as the Ultimate Coordinator, creating a new reason of conflict within them. (Also hoping for the evil Lacus)

[Ichimaru]

Seriously i dont want Kira too have anything todo with ZAFT or PLANT.

And i wonder what conditions did Zaft gave to lacus to rejoin (maybe marry athrun )

Kira joining zaft wont work, due to conflict of interest, and the ppl of zaft/plant will not accept that once they find out his been the one fighting against them for the last 2 years.....

Athrun wanted to change zaft, him stayin in orb will not do anything, there will always be hardlineres in zaft and his not doing anything about it.

stupid fanserice again ......

[Last_Hope]

Originally Posted by neilz

Actually I was hoping that if ever they continue with this. The people of plants will know of Kira's existence as the Ultimate Coordinator, creating a new reason of conflict within them. (Also hoping for the evil Lacus)

Wouldn´t an evil Lacus be very much, almost to the extreme, outside her character? I don´t see Lacus ever wanting to take total control in a way that Dullindal aimed to do. Some people don´t go corrupt because they get power and influence.

[Ichimaru]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

Wouldn´t an evil Lacus be very much, almost to the extreme, outside her character? I don´t see Lacus ever wanting to take total control in a way that Dullindal aimed to do. Some people don´t go corrupt because they get power and influence.

I prefer her to take up the position her dad once held, nothing else.

Athrun to take up his dads position, fix the problems his dad made, or have yzark.

[Anh_Minh]

Uh... her dad was Chairman of Plant, like Dullindal and Patrick Zala.

[neilz]

Well, not an evil Lacus, maybe a manipulator within the Terminal. or Mind control

[ila-chan]

The Kira joining ZAFT thing is surely a move made by (STUPIDIDIOTICBAKA) Fukuda, in which he releases the pix over half a year early B4 SE IV in order for the fan to go crazy over this. I'm not surprised actually, since I remembered him saying over in the interview (GUNOTA, I think) about him STATING that Kira and Co ARE the baddies in DESTINY, when he made them the goodies in SEED (I have reread the interview over and over again, he clearly states that Kira are the baddies because Durandal's Destiny Plan was supposed to bring peace and harmony to everyone). He just made this to make us all furious, I guess. That guy surely doesn't know the meaning of fear. But anyway, Kira joining ZAFT MAY have been in favor of Lacus, just as Athrun in ORB in favor of Cagalli (relook at the pix, you will notice that Athrun's uniform have Kira's previous rank). But then, maybe the pix is just a hoax, made by (STUPIDIDIOTICBAKA) Fukuda in order to make us (YES, US) crazy. Who knows? It's not long B4 SE IV. Let's see what happens next.

But then again, this is just what I think about what's happening now.

[White_Harpy]

I want to see a hypnotic suggestion duel between Lacus and Rau Le Creuset.
I wonder who would win?

My money would be on Lacus... seeing her game face at the end of GS and in GSD... and earlier posters make a good point. EVEN THOUGH her father was a chairman in ZAFT's council, How in the hell does she have such connections? Terminal?! that's some pretty heavy $#!T! Though she represented the plants' desire for peace early on in GS, she was just another coordinator kid, her father dealt with any and all matters serious. And scarcely two years later she has gone from the small scale freedom advocate to a position of absolute power with her own Defense Corporations that are entirely shrouded in secrecy...

It would just be nutters if it turned out that she was playing Kira and the others like marionettes. I think she would be my new favorite character, even more cunning and ruthless than Le Creuset, having been sent into a nihilistic rage at the loss of her father... Kira would be happy though, it would be like Fllay never died.

[White_Harpy]

However, I really want Kira to don the mask of cunning, mysterious villainy, Even if it were for just for part of this next season.

That way, he could pilot this little beauty...

http://www.answers.com/topic/msn-04-sazabi-jpg

Imagine a pure white color variation of this with the a setup much like the Strike Freedom's DRAGOON wings... They could pimp it out somehow, I'm sure.

[Derringer]

Nothing happens.

lol.

It's part of the ending credits. Nothing explained, it was just dropped in like an after thought.

[aeriolewinters]

I'm making a bold prediction so bash me as you like.Maybe Kira joining ZAFT did a sneaky purpose production-wise. While it did not seem a good enough revalation... It gives you the hint that if Kira did his work on PLANT, Orb more likely becomes screwed. It Also isolates Cagalli from Kira, who'll be likely getting an assassination attempt. Though Athrun would be there, I don't think that he's enough to do the bodyguard job. ZAFT is already overloaded with Kira and Shinn making sure that everything is fine up in PLANT. The move isolated both Cagalli and Athrun since the other Good pilot in ORB(Which is Mwu) isn't even going to be that active in the big scene.

Before the movie/3rd series begins... there's likely going to be a casualty in the main cast.

[Obi-Wan]

The movie is obviously going to be the PLANTs vs Orb since there is no other military to challenge either nation. Which indefinitely sets up Kira vs Athrun, the real rematch. They both probably get new Super Gundams and end up killing each other at the end, closing the book on that part of CE. Some other people probably die along the way, like Mu, Shinn and Luna.

[KiNA]

Nah.. prolly some random guy like those in "GW : endless waltz" .. Gives the chance for Shin to run along Kira and Athrun .. thus futhfilling the promise they made at that tombstone at the end of the episodes ^^