(L) Noein -- Mou Hitori no Kimi e

[Nightengale]

Well, best-of-the-best is generally a subjective term, and while convention breaking doesn't neccesarily equate into quality story-telling, I suppose it can be broken down into a few simple matters of looking into opinions. Generally, series like Noein did start off with a manner that will either make viewers, or break them with a semi-generic setting brushed off with several mysterious occurances. Well, it's something general, but the fact that it didn't exactly jump in quickly and dealt with the character drama and less of the full story probably lost some viewers and by the time it sank in, not many were left to appreciate it. Technically, I believe that there are quite a number that came back to Noien after an apparently improved input by those who stayed on with it, but it won't be massively popular.

I hate to say this, I really do, but ultimately...stuff like the moe-ness of female character does affect popularity, and if Haruhi/Shuffle/stuff like those are anything to go by, it affects A LOT. Noien could very well be an all-male anime and it would still be appealing. I can't say the same for quite a few other animes, sadly.

Ultimately, first impressions/generic perception make and break the popularity of a series. I personally feel that La Corda D'Oro is the best harem series this season with it's nice pacing, solid character development among other factors, realistic human drama discounting the fairy and quirky interaction between characters but due to it's reverse-harem status, it's never going to be anywhere close to more popular harems. Great anime like SaiMono started off quite unpleasingly as well...(( gay prince, yaoi vibes )) before the beauty really shone like a diamond.

Good shows will be eventually be genuinely appreciated in the years to come... but till then, I suppose the fact that certain animes will stay low-key till a time where it will be wholely appreciated arises.

[Quajafrie]

How can the average anime fan who watches things like Kanon appreciate the beauty of Noein? I think it's just impossible. The same happened with Fantastic Children, the same will happen with anime like Bokurano (I'm pretty sure of that). The average anime fan sucks, that's a fact. I started watching anime thinking that it's something that will have a following of people who like sophisticated things, good plot or storyline and things that will really make you think. And that's what I got: Myriads of stupid people that seriously don't have a life discussing about moe and other things that really make me sick. I was also wondering, one year ago, in this post and in this post, why Noein wasn't as popular as it should be and other anime like Shakugan no Shana were more popular than they should be. But I got my answer after time. I don't really want to play the 'sophisticated bastard', but that's how things are.

[wao]

Frankly speaking.... I wouldn't bother about it too much. I got a tad annoyed when so many people would brush off Noein just because of the art style, but it's just a futile exercise. And that's the way it is with even Japanese fans or well, even in similar situations in mass media. You don't even have to be an arrogant elitist anime bastard person (which I'm quite sure I am I think, at this poitn of time) to figure this out... and when it becomes the kind of truth as obvious as the fact that you're breathing, then it just becomes a non-issue, and you let it pass. (Which is what I say, but just look at me making a big fuss about it anyway...)

Meanwhile I'll just continue hoping that more people will dare to give ti a try and realise that it is certainly a lot better than it seems on the surface.

Granted, it is not perfect - there were some script choices I didn't particulalry agree with in the second half - but the production spirit behind it and the sheer effort put in along with the genuinely-felt development of the characters with the exciting story are something I would also never hesitate to bring up. Particularly the production spirit. (I've blabbed on about that at length more than enough times during the run of the show I believe.)

And I can also see why this sort of thing goes entirely oer people's heads. It's not even Kemonozume which has a very unorthodox method of everything because here there's still a story that is actually not difficult to get into because it's familiar and presented in a way that doesn't feel bizarre or something.

But sad to say a lot of people are too quick to judge on the very surface familiarity of the story because it just so happens to be one of those "blacklisted cliche" type of things - the "schoolkids get magic powers" sort of thing (bear with my oversimplification of the plot). And if they see that there's no other "redeeming factor" (typical moe, or the standard 'pretty' type of animation) then.. bye bye.

Sometimes even I wonder how the heck they couldn't want to watch at least one ep more just for the visuals after the stunning epiosde 1 (the scene where the street just changes colour brilliantly still takes my breath away every now and then), but....

Well, too bad. :\ Different strokes for different folks - I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way about Kanon-haters (the whole 'how could you not see the good points in this??' thing). And I can understand why some people just do not like action anime with small kids.

/$0.02

[Last_Hope]

Personally I rank this show very highly.

I´m not that good at describing shows in full length posts like others in here but what is the highlights of Noein (IMO) is the animation, the complex story that twists and turns a lot. I think it should be recognized that this show also makes its characters evolve aswell.

[kauldron26]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

How can the average anime fan who watches things like Kanon appreciate the beauty of Noein? I think it's just impossible. The same happened with Fantastic Children, the same will happen with anime like Bokurano (I'm pretty sure of that). The average anime fan sucks, that's a fact. I started watching anime thinking that it's something that will have a following of people who like sophisticated things, good plot or storyline and things that will really make you think. And that's what I got: Myriads of stupid people that seriously don't have a life discussing about moe and other things that really make me sick. I was also wondering, one year ago why Noein wasn't as popular as it should be and other anime like Shakugan no Shana were more popular than they should be. But I got my answer after time. I don't really want to play the 'sophisticated bastard', but that's how things are.

im with u here... i love anime because of how intricate stories and visualizations can be. After all, my first real anime i ever saw was Wolf's Rain my sophomore yr of college. But ur right, i thought all anime fans could appreciate uniqueness, but it seems like there are legions of folk more interested in harem, moe, and loli. so sad... what makes me even madder are the haruhists that are all like cattle moving in the same direction adoring the most ridiculously overrated show in history. I guess there are cattle everywhere. my mistake was that i was under the misconception that the medium of anime was an exception in which we were all fans of a medium embodied by intellectualism and uniqueness. But we have cattle everywhere. Whats even more annoying are the damn friggin bloggers, barely any of them have the sense to be unique 8/10 all have haruhi "for being original" its like everyone loves this show because it blends genres. DId these idiots see Escaflowne??? A show that came out 10 yrs ago, and still pwns today. A show that blended fantasy, mecha, scifi, friggin isaac newton, lost city of atlantis, adult drama, high school drama, violence, shounen, philosophy, and more, and more and more.

What makes Noein a masterpiece in my own opinion is the originality, the amazaing art, and the story is just awe-inspiring.

p.s. Wao, i think its about time u started ur own anime blog. u appreciate great anime that arent "popular" i'll def read it.

[Last_Hope]

Escaflowne was an amazing story I didn´t really expect so much from it that I got and last weekend I saw Nasuicaa, another amazing story, and this it´s Laputa on the schedule.

But I think Noein, however beautiful and smart the story may be, may be too hard for the general audience to understand. FMP, Gundam, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach etc.. Are much easier to understand and thus renders a bigger crowd of supporters.

(A bit of generalization.)
A human being is smart, the big crowd isn´t.

[kauldron26]

Originally Posted by Last_Hope

A human being is smart, the big crowd isn´t.

interesting... lol.. i wrote part of my philosophy final paper on that very aspect of Aristotle's theory of forms and purpose. lol. just go give Noein a 10 on anidb.net. the hogher the score, the more people will pay attention.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by kauldron26

im with u here... i love anime because of how intricate stories and visualizations can be.

That's the keyword there. Can be. This technically applies itself to all forms of media, and sadly, it shows. EVERYWHERE. I've watched tons of doramas (( chinese, korean, japanese )) from the late 80s till now (( though much less now due to repeated lame cliches )) and for all the popularity level some had achieved, I don't think I can name more than 10 original story doramas that I consider to be truly possess an deep, intriguing storyline encompassed together with tight writing and solid character development. Normally it's the same old thing. And rarely do those believable doramas extend their popularity beyond due to I dunno, bad timing, different, non-generic approach to a love story, etc. In a perfect world, Noein would be popular and widely discussed not for whatever's cuteness, etc and WWE would've gone bankrupt, replaced by RoH. But we don't live in a perfect world.

It's really hardly an issue of general perception of quality. Many animes of the past that were blatantly ignored in the past for being 'unconv entional' did gradually open eyes as time passed and people saw the good in something they couldn't swallow in the past. Though sadly, this still does play some part today due to the new generations low tolerance towards bad/old animation quality. I'd swear, many anime watchers I know didn't even want to go beyond 3 episodes of LoGH for various sucky reasons like the slow pace, animation quality, etc. It's a pity really. Though for every LoGH in this world, there are also Bebops and such that does reach out to the wider audiences. Some will still never fully appreciate opinionated differing of what can be considered a quality anime in the various forms, but that's really how the entertainment stream works. Time does change things in general. Otherwise, stuff like Ayashi no Ceres, Saint Seiya, etc would've been scorned by generations today. At least now they know them, even if they don't watch their sequels.

Well, I'm personally one of those "every cloud has a silver lining" kind of person. Naturally, there are negativities in every anime when one really wants to be perceptively argumentative, but I prefer to see the good and ignore the bad...even twisting bad to good depending on outlook. If I really wanted to be all critical about animes, I probably would've quit years back. At the very least, anime in general does release at least one gem annually.

Off-topic. LAWL.

[kauldron26]

u see, i dont think u can apply it to all forms of media. Take example the story of wolfs rain... would such a story full of violence and mystery by greenlit in a U.S. movie or T.V series?? no. why because they would compromise issues like length, gore, approach and time. But anime is a medium in which creators or visionaries are given more room to express themselves. Look at Noein and how they experiment with a radical anime art style, if they applied this theory to certain U.S. markets, because it daviates from the norm, and might not be a commercial hit, they would never green light it.

My Point is that i love anime because it is a medium that can have boundaries pushed to the limit for the sake of art. Look at Lost in the U.S. the show was once considered absolutely brilliant, but for the sake of money the creators plan on dragging the story line for years and years even when it will kill the creativity and quality. Meanwhile in anime the stories are planned out ahead and the end when things are supposed to end by order of the producers, creators or original mangaka. But then again we have stuff like naruto, bleach and one piece which are being milked for all they are worth, so we take the good with the bad. lol.

[bschultz]

kauldron26 your top 10 list is very similar to mine. hehe.

Though on my top ten that arnt on yours is last exile, Fullmetal alchemist, mushi-shi

I liked Gankutsuou, Berserk, Planet ES, and Vision of Escaflowne but some things just really annoyed me about those shows. especailly planet ES and escaflowne. planet es came off as to self-righteous and that damn chick in escaflowne the one that kept saying van-sama over and over and over just annoyed the hell out of me. haha

But yeah the whole reason I got into anime were for the original series. not crap like please teacher and love hina. While I do have a soft spot for cheesy romance animes I dont like animes that confirm to outsiders the "pervert otaku" stigma. shit like simoun really pisses me off because they base the whole show on loli lesbians... the rest is an after thought.

[kauldron26]

damn... and i have simoun on my to watch list. if our tastes are similar and u hate shows that arent original and appeal to otakus desires for "moe", "loli" etc... i better stay away then. Yea i hated that cat girl from escaflowne too, but even after ten years escaflowne is still standing the test of time. Just like Noein will. Ive been trying to get into mushishi but i cant get past ep 6, i guess im not really into "case of the week shows" the biggest reason i love animes is because of the concept of overarching story arcs which create room for character developments. So because of this GITS SAC and Mushishi have been on my HDD for the longest time because i have no motivation to keep on meeting new characters in every other episode. Well im open minded and someday i'll get around to it.

[Quajafrie]

To be a little on-topic, I have to say that I'm really waiting for the first volume to come out on European R2 DVDs, though the dvd covers are not good at all (why didn't they keep the japanese ones, really?). And I'm waiting for another ridiculous review for R1 vol.1 on AOD.

@kauldron26, you should really watch Fantastic Children. I'm pretty sure you'll love it, judging from your interests (that are very similar to mine). I was also kind of tired watching GITS SAC and Mushishi, though I'm not sure that was because of the episodic nature (I loved Kino no Tabi).

[bschultz]

yeah kinos travels is a really great series. it defiantly has a mushishi like feel. Very thought provoking.

[Trax]

Hope I don't get too much flack for this, but thought it might be nice to throw in a differing opinion in this thread. As I have mentioned before, I lost interest in this series at some point, and to be honest I am not able to quite put my finger on the exact reason anymore at this point. A slight break in watching the episodes might be part of it, but then again that break was probably caused by a loss of interest rather than the other way around, although it might have reinforced it.

Since everything is far from fresh in my mind, I don't remember enough details, but one thing I am pretty sure of; it simply wasn't entertaining enough to me. Animation and sound aren't much of a factor for me, I don't pay that much attention to those things in general unless it stands out somehow. I do remember some episodes having horrendous animation though. Alternative art styles tend to interest me rather than repel me, so that didn't bother me. In my case it usually comes down to a "gut" feeling if I enjoyed it or not once during and after watching a series.

One thing that probably lowered my enjoyment was some of the semi-random vague events and occurances. As for thought provoking content, I don't mind that, but this just wasn't my cup of tea I think. It's not like you need to be a physics geek to appreciate it, but I still felt it went a bit too far for me to bother spending much time thinking about all the intricacies. Thinking too much about time travel, parallel dimensions and its contradictions tend to give you a headache to begin with. It seems to me Noein tried a little too hard to stand out and ended up standing out so much that the interest in the series is rather limited. Masterpiece? Perhaps. Enjoyable? Only to a select group, apparently.

[mishka]

Originally Posted by Quajafrie

How can the average anime fan who watches things like Kanon appreciate the beauty of Noein? I think it's just impossible. The same happened with Fantastic Children, the same will happen with anime like Bokurano (I'm pretty sure of that). The average anime fan sucks, that's a fact. I started watching anime thinking that it's something that will have a following of people who like sophisticated things, good plot or storyline and things that will really make you think. And that's what I got: Myriads of stupid people that seriously don't have a life discussing about moe and other things that really make me sick. I was also wondering, one year ago, in this post and in this post, why Noein wasn't as popular as it should be and other anime like Shakugan no Shana were more popular than they should be. But I got my answer after time. I don't really want to play the 'sophisticated bastard', but that's how things are.

IT COULD NOT HAVE BEEN SAID ANY BETTER.

[lommm]

@kauldron26: you know, both gits sac and mushishi are a lot about character development. and gits sac is about overarching plot. almost every person/case they investigate each week is a part of something larger, something that they solve by the end of the season. they are called "1st gig: the laughing man complex" and "2nd gig: the perticularist eleven" for a reason. as for mushishi, check anidb and read the first review here to see why i feel the show is actually one overarching story.

having said that, i agree with the above. i would actually add gankutuou into that list of shows that weren't as popular as they should have been (and i haven't even watched all of gank yet). shows that try to do something different will always get lost in the shuffle *shudders at hearing that word* of other more "popcorn and candy" kind of shows.

[rei]

Frankly speaking, I hate the art style. And earlier in the episode, watching Yuu & his mother made me frustrated. Luckily, I was able to tolerate with that. But as the story progressing, the art style is not a problem to me anymore. I ENJOYED it!

I love the interaction between the characters. For some unknown reason, Karasu reminds me of Yukito of AIR (Karasu = Crow?). I wasn't fond of Atori at first. He's a damn psycho. But when he became nice, hell, I like him a lot!! And his kind smile is one of the cutest thing that I've ever seen. I begin to think that his psycho mode is not bad at all. This anime is really worthed for me. But replay value is low though. Maybe I'll rewatch this again once in a while.

EDIT: And oh, I forgot to mention, VERY GOOD voice acting

[Slice of Life]

I watched the show only recently after it had been lying on my harddisk for too long but I can't say I'm much impressed by it.

I loved the soundtrack. I liked the animation where it wasn't obvious CGI but that happend much to often. Where is the point in letting a virtual camera rotate around a house again and again and again?

I liked some of the characters, especially Haruka (they easily could have made her another Lalaru or the girl from Fantastic Children, don't remember her name.)

But the story... I liked it in the beginning but later I realized that to much stuff simply led to nowhere and many effects had been only there for, well, effect. The show didn't deliver the audience with any kind of framework of what was physically possible in this universe (or better multiverse) and what not so they could conveniently pull deus ex machina after deus ex machine out of their hats. Even Slayers was more "scientific" in that regard. To suimmarize there were too much shounen energy ray battles and not enough solid plot. In fact, the plot was completely hanging in the air: What made Haruka, of all people, what she was? And even stranger, what made Noein what he was? And what have bracelets in the sky to do with quantum mechanics?

Oh, and I've never watched kanon, nor am I planning to, nor do I consider myself metally imparied in any way.

[SeijiSensei]

A New Zealand computer scientist recently published this controversial article about the costs of "DIgital Rights Management" technologies in Windows Vista. Having just watched Noein I was mentally prepared for his claim that "...in order to work, Vista's content protection must be able to violate the laws of physics". The attached footnote ("Note C") contains the following defense of his claim (in spoilers for length reasons):

Spoiler:

"In order for content to be displayed to users, it has to be copied numerous times. For example if you're reading this document on the web then it's been copied from the web server's disk drive to server memory, copied to the server's network buffers, copied across the Internet, copied to your PC's network buffers, copied into main memory, copied to your browser's disk cache, copied to the browser's rendering engine, copied to the render/screen cache, and finally copied to your screen. If you've printed it out to read, several further rounds of copying have occurred. Windows Vista's content protection (and DRM in general) assume that all of this copying can occur without any copying actually occurring, since the whole intent of DRM is to prevent copying. If you're not versed in DRM doublethink this concept gets quite tricky to explain, but in terms of quantum mechanics the content enters a superposition of simultaneously copied and uncopied states until a user collapses its wave function by observing the content (in physics this is called quantum indeterminacy or the observer's paradox). Depending on whether you follow the Copenhagen or many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, things then either get weird or very weird. So in order for Windows Vista's content protection to work, it has to be able to violate the laws of physics and create numerous copies that are simultaneously not copies.

(Someone has pointed out that Microsoft is trying to implement a quantum encryption channel in software that attempts to make premium content non- observable, detecting problem states and discontinuing transmission if any are observed)."

I think Tobi could probably handle this, but I have less faith in Microsoft and Intel. I would never have known what the Copenhagen and many-worlds interpretations were without some wonderful instruction by other contributors to this forum. Thank you, all!

For more on the Vista controversy, see this Slashdot article.

[rei]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

To suimmarize there were too much shounen energy ray battles and not enough solid plot. In fact, the plot was completely hanging in the air: What made Haruka, of all people, what she was? And even stranger, what made Noein what he was? And what have bracelets in the sky to do with quantum mechanics?

I was so into the characters that I've failed to realize that. Now I also wonder how Haruka became what she was & about Noein. Hopefully there'll be an OVA to explain that (though I doubt about it)