[Manga] The levels of Resengan [Spoiler]

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand

And Where does it say in the manga that you NEED a kekkei genkai to combine elements together? where does it say that? tell me. Show me a link to the manga where it specifically says that there is no posssible way that you can merge two elements together without a kekkei genkai.

What the third did when he used Earth and fire at the same time was an Anime filler.

and unless it is a mistranslation, you are right, it was not specifically stated that only with a Kenkei Genkai is plausible.

However, it does said to combine 2 element to create a new one strength is needed, something like a Kekei Genkay. given that Sharingan can't copy those jutsu of combined elements, its means that the body of the person performing this tipe of Jutsus should have a special trait, which in this case are known as Kekkei Genkai.

I guess for know we should assume that only trough a Special Bloodline A new element can be created.

[Uchiha_Gaara]

Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand

THe thirs had no problem mixing his fire and earth Jutsus, and i dont think he has a kekkei genkai.

Cause the 3rd didn't mix the elements he just did a Katon based jutsu over the Doton mud jutsu!

Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand

Also what do you mean the Kyuubi isnt a part of Naruto, it IS a part of him if the Kyuubi is removed naruto will die. they rely on eachother. they are one in the same in a manner of speaking.

The kyubi is a part of Naruto but not Fisicaly... Only the soul of the Kyubi is sealed on Naruto's body.

Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand

And Where does it say in the manga that you NEED a kekkei genkai to combine elements together? where does it say that? tell me. Show me a link to the manga where it specifically says that there is no posssible way that you can merge two elements together without a kekkei genkai.

I don't know the link but Kakashi sais that on the Wave country saga, when he's explaining Haku's habilitys

[Supaiku_of_Sand]

What about the people that start a kekkei genkai where do they get their power to combine Elements? I think its just a very high level skill that is easier for people with an elemental kekkei genkai but i dont think its just limited to that. its just that people who dont have one, its just going to be alot harder for them to do it, I doubt highly that it would be impossible for someone without a kekkei genkai to merge two elements

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Supaiku_of_Sand

What about the people that start a kekkei genkai where do they get their power to combine Elements? I think its just a very high level skill that is easier for people with an elemental kekkei genkai but i dont think its just limited to that. its just that people who dont have one, its just going to be alot harder for them to do it, I doubt highly that it would be impossible for someone without a kekkei genkai to merge two elements

Well if would had only be a matter of just training hard and have the sufficient power to do so, Been able to combine elements should not be something that either would be Rare and apart of this something that cant be copied by Sharingan.

How does a Kekei Genkai start? Who knows? Maybe Evolution, because if you take notice, When someone can Fuse 2 elements to create one, there is a chance that this is inherited by the offspring of the person. If it was something that was only having the strength to join two elements, then this will not be part of what the the decendant could inherit. In other words, just because Your Body is capable of lifting 1 ton, does not mean that all your decedent would be able to do this if they do not train.

Not to mention, Mutation such as Kimimarus bones and Byakugan are not something you can train to accomplish.

[jce16]

For those of you that keep saying that the resengans past normal and odama resengans will be given a new rank they already have a rank past S-class its known as FORBIDDEN JUTSU when the 5th sees the technique she imediatly forbids naruto from using it.

[hai_san]

huh Resegan? i thought it was called Rasengan whatever...

[Tettsuo]

You don't need a bloodline ability to use 2 different elements, you need a bloodline ability to combine 2 different elements at the same time.

Water + Wind = Ice

So using ice in a jutsu requires a bloodline ability. Same as using Wood, which is a combination of earth and water.

Now what makes it possible for Naruto... clones. He doesn't have to use the same body to use 2 different elements. Combining elements in that way doesn't require a bloodline, same as 2 different people combining their jutsu don't each need a bloodline ability to do it.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

You don't need a bloodline ability to use 2 different elements, you need a bloodline ability to combine 2 different elements at the same time.

Water + Wind = Ice

So using ice in a jutsu requires a bloodline ability. Same as using Wood, which is a combination of earth and water.

Now what makes it possible for Naruto... clones. He doesn't have to use the same body to use 2 different elements. Combining elements in that way doesn't require a bloodline, same as 2 different people combining their jutsu don't each need a bloodline ability to do it.

Naruto can't use clones to combine elements to form new elements like ninja that have a bloodline. He can only use clones to add wind element to a jutsu, like he did w/ Rasengan.

[Tettsuo]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Naruto can't use clones to combine elements to form new elements like ninja that have a bloodline. He can only use clones to add wind element to a jutsu, like he did w/ Rasengan.

Naruto and his clones can do anything 2 different nins can do together. So if 2 different nins can combine their elemental jutsus, so can Naruto.

Unless you know of a situation in the manga that supports the prevention of 2 different nins from combining their jutsus?

[vision55]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Naruto and his clones can do anything 2 different nins can do together. So if 2 different nins can combine their elemental jutsus, so can Naruto.

Unless you know of a situation in the manga that supports the prevention of 2 different nins from combining their jutsus?

I just think in this particular situation Naruto cannot do two different elements because he does not know any other elements aside from wind.

And yes you are correct...That a clone of a Nin can do anything that the real guy/gal can do....but a question comes up in that...."why can't naruto just use clones to make a Futon Resengan to avoid bodily harm?" This has been asked before but I still don't get it.

[Rahan]

combining nin is different from forming a new element from 2 different elements.
combining nin = Kakuzu's attacks or Sennin Jiraiya's attacks (Fire + Wind +oil). The dominant element is reinforced by the other. (Wind + Fire = big fire). Anyone can do it. (well, anyone who can cast at least 2 jutsus simultaneously)
forming a new element is different. You don't use 2 elements. You use a new one who is formed by the fusion of the other two. It's a one step move. When Yamato uses Mokuton, he doesn't use Earth and Water jutsu. He uses directly the fusion of the two. To have access to the fused element, you need a bloodline limit. Otherwise, you won't get wood, but mud.

You should think about fused elements like molecules. Elements are the atoms and the Kekkei Genkai is the bond between them. Without the bonds, atoms floats around separately (you may have hydrogen and oxygen, you won't get water unless you do something). With them, you have a brand new molecule.

[Tettsuo]

Originally Posted by Rahan

combining nin is different from forming a new element from 2 different elements.
combining nin = Kakuzu's attacks or Sennin Jiraiya's attacks (Fire + Wind +oil). The dominant element is reinforced by the other. (Wind + Fire = big fire). Anyone can do it. (well, anyone who can cast at least 2 jutsus simultaneously)
forming a new element is different. You don't use 2 elements. You use a new one who is formed by the fusion of the other two. It's a one step move. When Yamato uses Mokuton, he doesn't use Earth and Water jutsu. He uses directly the fusion of the two. To have access to the fused element, you need a bloodline limit. Otherwise, you won't get wood, but mud.

You should think about fused elements like molecules. Elements are the atoms and the Kekkei Genkai is the bond between them. Without the bonds, atoms floats around separately (you may have hydrogen and oxygen, you won't get water unless you do something). With them, you have a brand new molecule.

It's the combination of using 2 different elements simultaneously where a bloodline is necessary. That's it. In the case of Yamato, that's exactly how he explained it during the 1,000 clone training. Yamato can use both earth and water simultaneously to create wood.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by vision55

And yes you are correct...That a clone of a Nin can do anything that the real guy/gal can do....but a question comes up in that...."why can't naruto just use clones to make a Futon Resengan to avoid bodily harm?" This has been asked before but I still don't get it.

I don’t think the clones are going to be resilient enough to suport the presure the FR puts on Narutos body.

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

It's the combination of using 2 different elements simultaneously where a bloodline is necessary. That's it. In the case of Yamato, that's exactly how he explained it during the 1,000 clone training. Yamato can use both earth and water simultaneously to create wood.

The problem is not using them simultaneously, is about having the power to actually combining them and create a new one, remember that Kakashi stated that you need great power to do so.

And to go even further out, the cases of New elements has basically been 2, Ice and Mokuton. Now, think about it, if using two elements simultaneously is all that is needed to create a Jutsu (without a Kekke Gakai) then Mokuton and Ice jutsu wouldn’t had been such rare and exclusive elements .

[Tettsuo]

Originally Posted by Rurik

The problem is not using them simultaneously, is about having the power to actually combining them and create a new one, remember that Kakashi stated that you need great power to do so.

And to go even further out, the cases of New elements has basically been 2, Ice and Mokuton. Now, think about it, if using two elements simultaneously is all that is needed to create a Jutsu (without a Kekke Gakai) then Mokuton and Ice jutsu wouldn’t had been such rare and exclusive elements .

I disagree with you regarding the simultaneous part. You must have a Kekke Gakai to use 2 different elements at the same time (or, as you've noted, have great power). What makes ice jutsu special is the use of 2 elements at the same time, water and wind. The same applies to wood. Although I am unclear how you get wood from earth and water, I'm very clear that you can get ice from water and wind.

I'm certainly it's about the simultaneous use of elements from 1 nin that requires a bloodline ability. This does not exclude 2 nins from combining to do the same combining of elements (where 1 nins uses one element and the other uses another element).

The reason Naruto can even do the Fuuton Rasengan is because of his clones ability to mix in wind element with the rasengan. Nothing stops him from mixing another element with the wind except for adding more clones to handle the 2nd element.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

I disagree with you regarding the simultaneous part. You must have a Kekke Gakai to use 2 different elements at the same time (or, as you've noted, have great power). What makes ice jutsu special is the use of 2 elements at the same time, water and wind. The same applies to wood. Although I am unclear how you get wood from earth and water, I'm very clear that you can get ice from water and wind.

I'm certainly it's about the simultaneous use of elements from 1 nin that requires a bloodline ability. This does not exclude 2 nins from combining to do the same combining of elements (where 1 nins uses one element and the other uses another element).

That's not the way it works. Kekkai genkai doesn't result just by using two elements simutaneously

Example: In Chp 337 Yamato combined his Suiton Hahonryu with Naruto's Fuuton Rasengan to get Guufu Sukia no Jutsu, which was a hurricane-like justu. Using your logic, the combo should've resulted in an ice jutsu because Wind + Water=Ice, but it didn't because it takes a Kekkai Genkai to fuse those two elements into ice element.

Like Rahan and Rurik said, using kekkai genkai involves more than just using two elements simultaneously and mixing them together. That is why Naruto cannot use clones to achieve the same result. Even if he could infuse other elements than just wind into Rasengan, this is still not the same thing as a kekkai genkai.

[mayhem]

Originally Posted by Tenro

Ok we all know about the normal Resengan, well here are the levels I think are possible


Resengan - Normal unfinished jutsus
Odama Resengan - The enlarged Resengan (requires two narutos)

Now when we go into elements, Naruto's affinity is wind so

Fuuton Resengan - Wind Release Resengan

Just speculation, but I have heard talk about the nine tails affinity being fire, if thats the case couldn't the Resengan at the Valley of the End be basically:

Katon Resengan - Fire Release Resengan (It had the strange glow of red, Some say it was the kyyubi chakra maybe it was and maybe it was on fire?)

At this point we know how devastating the Fuuton Resengan is at 50% power, but at 100%, we take it to the next level and go

Odama Fuuton Resengan - Great Wind Release Resengan
Odama Katon Resengan - Great Fire Release Resengan

At all of there fully evolved state and with the kyyubi's help could he make:

Katon Fuuton Resengan - Fire and Wind Release Resengan (Since the wind only increases the fires potential, the power would be devastating)


At this point why not take it to the next level and go to the highest state possible!

Odama Katon Fuuton Resengan - The Great Fire and Wind Release Resengan
I couldn't even imagine how powerful that type of jutsus is, not to mention the stress it would take to harness its power


Everything About the Kyyubi, and his affinity and the Katon Resengan is only speculation but maybe so!

It took naruto training with 1000 kage bushins for quite sometime before he even could slightly minipulate wind with his hands, he wouldn't have just been able to all the sudden release a " katon element ransengan"....you didn't think this through, it makes you sound like a fanboy.

[Blerghovic]

Originally Posted by Mr. Johnny 5

Didnt the 3rd Hokage mixed earth & fire element together?

We could've said the same about taking Shape Manipulation to the Max level and add Nature Element to it. A thing which seemed impossible is after ( KGB years ) some time possible (50%) for Naruto.

And for Naruto's second affinity to be Water doesnt have to make sense...it could be possible that all Kage-lvl fighters have 3 or more...so his second could be...fire, earth or lightning.

Lightning would be sweet cuz...the storms which could be created are worth to see.

Actually the 3rd never mixed the earth and fire elements together; he used an earth jutsu to send earth projectiles flying at Orochimaru and then set them aflame by sending a katon jutsu at the projectiles AFTER he had done the earth jutsu.

As for all the uncertaintity surrounding what Kyuubi's elemental affinity(or affinities) is/are I'd say that it's affinities are earth and water. My reasons for this are that every time anyone talks abbout it they usually say that it's a legendary beast that could cause tsunamis and/or earthquakes with a flick of it's tail. Of course it's entirely possible that it has even more or all of the affinities seeing as other than the little we've been told about it being an unstoppable force of nature and stuff like that, we know next to nothing about it.

As for the possibilities of Naruto developing a 'Fuuton Katon Rasengan' or something similar it is doable but very unlikely. With maybe a decade or so of training(and you have to remember that kage bunshin can't be used so casually) he may be able to develop a second elemental affinity(and not beacuse of the Kyuubi, just from extensive training as Kakashi said it's possible for an advanced ninja(jounin etc.) to obtain a second one) and be able to use a 'Fuuton Rasengan' in one hand and another elemental Rasengan in the his other hand(he would probably need clones to help him concentrate and manipulate the chakra). Then(in a way similar to how he mixed that water jutsu with his 'Fuuton Rasengan' to create a different jutsu) he would force them together on impact to form a brand new uber rasengan. However he doesn't have the time available to do that and by the time he does Kishi will probably have finished the sries. Also, there are he urgently needs to improve on, rather than creating yet another type of rasengan. As well as this you have to remember how much damage he inflicted upon himself just by using his newest rasengan.

And finally, his newest rasengan is called 'Fuuton: Rasenshuriken', not Fuuton: Rasengan.

[Tettsuo]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

That's not the way it works. Kekkai genkai doesn't result just by using two elements simutaneously

Example: In Chp 337 Yamato combined his Suiton Hahonryu with Naruto's Fuuton Rasengan to get Guufu Sukia no Jutsu, which was a hurricane-like justu. Using your logic, the combo should've resulted in an ice jutsu because Wind + Water=Ice, but it didn't because it takes a Kekkai Genkai to fuse those two elements into ice element.

Like Rahan and Rurik said, using kekkai genkai involves more than just using two elements simultaneously and mixing them together. That is why Naruto cannot use clones to achieve the same result. Even if he could infuse other elements than just wind into Rasengan, this is still not the same thing as a kekkai genkai.

Yes, that is how it works. To use two different elements simultaneously you need Kekkai genkai. That doesn't mean there aren't other Kekkai genkai that don't involve elemental abilities.

In my example I simply used a particular manifestation of a kekkai genkai, but that doesn't mean air and water always makes ice. My point was that it was the combination of those 2 elements can created the ice, just like the combination of water and earth creates wood. Yamato and Naruto's mixing is actually an example of 2 nins mixing their elemental jutsu's to create a more powerful jutsu. It would be impossible for Naruto to this alone for 2 reasons. 1 - He doesn't use water 2 - He can't use 2 different elements at the same time. If he did learn water jutsus, I suspect he could create the same effect with his clone.

Do your homework guys. This was actually explained twice in the manga.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

Yes, that is how it works. To use two different elements simultaneously you need Kekkai genkai. That doesn't mean there aren't other Kekkai genkai that don't involve elemental abilities.

In my example I simply used a particular manifestation of a kekkai genkai, but that doesn't mean air and water always makes ice. My point was that it was the combination of those 2 elements can created the ice, just like the combination of water and earth creates wood. Yamato and Naruto's mixing is actually an example of 2 nins mixing their elemental jutsu's to create a more powerful jutsu. It would be impossible for Naruto to this alone for 2 reasons. 1 - He doesn't use water 2 - He can't use 2 different elements at the same time. If he did learn water jutsus, I suspect he could create the same effect with his clone.

Do your homework guys. This was actually explained twice in the manga.

This is what I said that you disagreed with me.

Maybe I can see where the problem comes from, when you refer to combining, you are referring to using 2 Jutsus of different elements, and not combining two elements to create a new element.

[Cael]

Four-hundred chapters later, when Naruto is Hokage and fighting for his life, maybe we'll see him use:

Cho Oodama Fuuton: Rasen Shuriken