Is anti.x264 good or evil?

[npal]

Let's see.

Most of the pro-Xvid arguments are really crap. People not having contemporary ENTRY level PC and cant' afford one is an immensely crappy statement.

I agree however that the market doesn't provide MKV/H264 playback-able devices. I have a player who plays DivX at most and a recorder that can't even play DivX. It's not a huge investment, but it was expensive at the time for my wallet and my usual expenses. However, if someone, ANYONE, came out with an MKV/H264 player, I'd be the first one to buy it. The only thing I've heard is RUMORS of something like existing or MIGHT come out. I can understand that it's convenient for people (myself included) to get simple avi releases and watch them on my TV set when I need to. However, I always download the h264/mkv when it's available. If I want to watch something really bad on TV, I recode it myself. And just for the record, some of the Xvid releases I download anyway because the group doesn't release in H264 don't play on my DVD player anyway, so I need to convert those to DVD-video. So not every Xvid release is compatible with every DVD player.

I'd buy a good MKV-OGG/H264 DVD player the moment it comes out because the huge majority of fansubbed titles I have are in the MKV/OGG container, and usually in H264 (although I think I saw some Xvid contained somewhere).

The fervor of the argument is silly if you ask me. Cars appear, people make asphalted roads for cars, and there are some people complaining that their mule liked the old roads better. Get a car for God's sake. There are cheap cars out there. "Oh no, cause I want to go be able to tread rocky terrain". Yeah me, too, and I'm waiting for jeeps to come out so I can actually do that. No need to go back to prehistoric ages because some people are too lazy and too relaxed to get in tune with the changes.

I don't believe fansubs need to attend to your wish to watch downloaded stuff on TV. If you really must watch them on TV, buy the damned DVDs, I'm sure many of the ones you have downloaded are getting licensed. If you can't go the legal way, that's your problem. Recode them yourself, buy the DVDs, buy a new PC, wait patiently until a compatible player comes out. But wanting DOS back because you 1) don't like Windows (or Linux, but damn, if you're so lazy, you're probably not using Linux anyway) or 2) don't want to buy a decent PC is crap. The DVD player incompatibility is a bit more valid, but even then you're either lazy or just a cheapskate who doesn't want to legally own stuff he wants to watch.

That was my little contribution, I'll return to my usual forums now

[Starks]

Here's the thing about dual-releasing in Xvid and H.264 for an anime... Unless the filenames have an "LQ" or an "HQ" in it, the Xvid encode will get more hits. This is generally regardless of any actual size or quality differences and regardless of how far apart they are released or which is released first.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by Starks

Here's the thing about dual-releasing in Xvid and H.264 for an anime... Unless the filenames have an "LQ" or an "HQ" in it, the Xvid encode will get more hits. This is generally regardless of any actual size or quality differences and regardless of how far apart they are released or which is released first.

That's why you release the h.264 version a few days before the xvid. That's when you really see how many leechers really CAN'T play h.264 and how many are just too lazy to install the software. (Because waiting 3 days is like eternity to these people ).

[False Dawn]

Originally Posted by Starks

Here's the thing about dual-releasing in Xvid and H.264 for an anime... Unless the filenames have an "LQ" or an "HQ" in it, the Xvid encode will get more hits. This is generally regardless of any actual size or quality differences and regardless of how far apart they are released or which is released first.

That just proves that leechers are lazy. I'd like to think that most fansubbers won't cater to that laziness. And thankfully, most don't - hence why more groups are becoming mkv only.


EDIT: What would actually be helpful is if some groups released series in lower resolutions - such as (picking one out at random) Lunar who seem to persist in releasing Bartender at 1280-720 without having a low res release. Unfortunately, my computer, and I'd imagine quite a lot of people's computers, can't play something like that x_x

[Bob64]

Might I point out, that by the time the xvid-wanter requests and gets the xvid encode from the antix264 site, it has been over 3 days since the h264 was released.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

That just proves that leechers are lazy. I'd like to think that most fansubbers won't cater to that laziness. And thankfully, most don't - hence why more groups are becoming mkv only.


EDIT: What would actually be helpful is if some groups released series in lower resolutions - such as (picking one out at random) Lunar who seem to persist in releasing Bartender at 1280-720 without having a low res release. Unfortunately, my computer, and I'd imagine quite a lot of people's computers, can't play something like that x_x

Not to toot my own horn, but my group's release of Hataraki Man does exactly what you want, we release both a 1280x720 and a 640x360 version (BOTH h.264, though).

[Starks]

Originally Posted by False Dawn

That just proves that leechers are lazy. I'd like to think that most fansubbers won't cater to that laziness. And thankfully, most don't - hence why more groups are becoming mkv only.


EDIT: What would actually be helpful is if some groups released series in lower resolutions - such as (picking one out at random) Lunar who seem to persist in releasing Bartender at 1280-720 without having a low res release. Unfortunately, my computer, and I'd imagine quite a lot of people's computers, can't play something like that x_x

1. The differences between an LQ, MQ, or HQ release are very subtle today (assuming each release is the same resolution) as opposed to 4 or 5 years ago. Such labels almost completely disappeared when XviD arrived and matured. It was only in 2006 did they make a significant comeback. Yet such labels, as trivial as they are, have a huge impact on leechers.

2. Lunar is being extremely rude about Bartender... The fansubbing community as a whole and about 80% of leechers are simply not ready for 720p-only releases. That's at least a year and a half off from where we are. 720p is a much larger jump in requirements than H.264. It's also very hard to justify a 720p-only fansubbing of a series when only a select few (if any at all) series are broadcast in TRUE HD and not upscaled.

[ladholyman]

That's where anti.x264 comes in.

[Starks]

Originally Posted by ladholyman

That's where anti.x264 comes in.

Lad. It's not so much the fact that re-encoding is stupid. anti.x264 was hated because of it's rather annoying approach, not so much for what it offered.

[ladholyman]

Goodness, Starks, don't speak for me. I'm sure plenty of people don't hate anti.x264. It was a fabulous service and I hope they come back.

[Dnous]

I have quite an old PC yet I can play 720p stuff in h.264 without any problems at all.
Random lowbudget PC at a random store: AMD Athlon 64 bit 3200+, 160GB SATA II, 512MB DDR, DVD DL Brander, Mouse, Keyboard and Speakers included. For 349 euro. If you can’t even afford something like that, how the hell did you get internet? Or, are we talking about kids that found a PC on the street, hooked it up, and also found a WIFI card so they can use their neighbors unprotected WIFI connection?

[martino]

That is true that 720p is a problem for many people, but I think that's another issue too, and it is something that groups should think about since there is a bigger jump needed from 480p to 720p than from XviD to h264. So from this I think that 720p and anti.x264 is another issue...

Thus, offtopic:
As for 720p, computer components are so cheap nowadays that you can pick up a very good processor even for $60 which is more than capable of decoding h264 @ 1280x720. As for me, I don't have a superb computer, Intel Pentium M 1.4GHz and I can play h264 up to 1440x990 (or something around that resolution).

EDIT: But that depends on the settings used as well.

[Sai the Dreamer]

Site doesn't load for me, but judging by the title, I'll just make a wild guess at what it's about.

Not too long ago, most of us clicked along with 56k connections and sub-1 GHz processors. These days, a vast majority of the world is on broadband, and I don't know a single person with a processor running at 1 GHz or slower.

That said, my box contains a Sempy 2200+ (1.5 GHz). With CoreAVC, I can play 1280p x264 with absolutely no frame loss - though my computer can hang slightly during bitrate-intensive clips in the OP and ED. With ffdshow, it's the same case if you replace 1280p with 1024p.

Nonetheless, my point still stands. Eventually comes a time where you need to upgrade, and I feel sites prolonging this are more of a negative influence than anything else. You simply can't watch anything modern-day with an old computer - that's how it's always worked.

[Bob64]

The site doesn't load because all the lamers spammed the server/domain's abuse hotline. The guy that runs it says that he'll be back...but the domain is lost... will come back as something else.

[DrewGSR]

H264 is just plain awesome the quality and compression size is nice, it needs and should be the standard encode for all fansubs already. Don't matter on the container either mp4 or mkv dont matter to me. I love the 1280 and 720 releases.

If you can't play a h264, than that means your PC is like 4-5+ years old and NEED to upgrade already. I mean shit PCs are cheap nowadays, can get a basic dual X2 or Pentium D for like around $500 or get a single core A64 or Intel for friken like 300... Or you PC is so loaded with crap that all your resources are being used and you clean to clean that crap up.

Plus I think making a HQ and LQ release is just a wait of resources and bandwith, just put on the better version and call it a day.

[Bob64]

I don't think the "waste of resources and bandwidth" argument answers the question "is anti.264 good or evil?"

No one is forcing the fansub group to waste the said bandwidth and resources. If you look at it from that perspective, then anti.x264 is good, because it saves the fansubs resources and bandwidth.

[Dnous]

But it keeps ppl staying at XviD and those ppl will continue to whine about groups that only released subs in h264, because, obviously, whining helps.

[NoSanninWa]

I understand that many people here dislike anti.x264 because it gives the whining Luddites an excuse to refuse to learn how to install CCCP, but honestly I think that is their problem. It isn't hard to ignore a few lines of text whining about their pathetic PCs which could run h264 if they actually uninstalled all codecs before they installed CCCP and were willing to use one of the recommended players.

How we encode our anime is part of being a fan. If we love high quality video and the newest cool codecs, then gambatte! Other people who love to download that will rejoice even as some others moan about it. Everyone has their own way of fandom.

Let them download and watch inferior re-encodes. Heck, let them watch it on Youtube if they like. Some people really don't care about video quality and this is good for them. Honestly, what we watch and how we watch it is just part of our own way of being a fan. The guy who runs anti.x264 is probably just following his own path of fandom by helping more people to watch anime. After all, Luddites deserve anime also. It isn't intended as an insult to the fansubbers and as long as nobody makes money on it, then everyone benefits.

In the end, I figure as long as anime is being watched, it is a good thing. That is why I feel anti.x264 is good.

[Nicholi]

/me remembers scraping for any quality whatsoever 4-5 years ago... With MPEG1 captures then re-encoded to DivX 3.11.

Anime will always be watched regardless of quality :P.

[raiel]

None of the pro-H264 arguments I've heard are convincing.
I will respond to each one.

While I don't have any problem with people wanting their own preferred format, releasing stuff on MKV/H264 is like releasing stuff on Beta when most people have VCRs.

My points:

1) If you are going to distribute something, shouldn't it be distributed in the most widely playable format?

2) If I can't watch something on my TV, I don't care about it. Pretty much everyone I know personally is the same way. We have: XBox, DivX player, etc. When most fans have MKV players, it'll be a different story. I really don't care about formats. I only care that it plays well and looks decent.

3) Using MKVs to promote softsubs is really decreasing the reason to buy the DVD when it comes out. Saying people should buy the DVD if they want to watch fansubs on their TV is ridiculous. We have fansubs because there isn't a DVD commercially available. I can't understand people being happy watching whole movies on their computer. It's better to watch stuff with friends, the family, the wife, etc. on a big TV from a couch.

4) I've not known anyone to be able to visually tell the quality of an MKV is better than an AVI. Often, I've seen the AVI of a show looking better than an MKV. It could be that people don't know how to encode. Both would be reasons against it.

5) All of the arguments not to use most widely playable format despite it being perfectly good sound like they're coming from elitist snobs who are satisfied watching anime on the computer in their mom's basement. Sorry, that's not me.

Watching anime on your computer is a huge step backwards compared to the old days when you watched tapes on your TV. Sure, the distribution system is improved and the option to watch something on your computer good. However, some fansubbers seem intent to derail fan community fixes to the new problem of "to watch something in a group, huddle around my laptop."

I respect the desire of nerds to want to use the newest shiniest thing, but it is unfortunate when it is used exclusively to the detriment of the ones that it is supposedly for. I've heard too many sad stories of small anime clubs who wish they could show a show but are defeated due to some new format for which they don't possess the hardware.

So, I commend antix264 and those who release shows in AVI (or release in multiple formats). A group, of course, has the right to release in whatever format they choose. The point of this post is merely saying I think a group would want to release something that can be enjoyed by as many as possible - unless it's just for themselves.