[Manga] Chapter 345 Discussion

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

He still has the most god-like abilites shown thus far IMO.

Itachi was already in some fights, and he didn't "own" the enemy:
- against Gai he chose to escape
- against Jiraiya he chose to escape
- receiving orders from AL, just like the other who have already died, not even the slightest hint that he is the elite of the akatsuki, better than for example Sasori
- his clone has been defeated by Kakashi
This in itself is no evidence, however i'm not complaining about evidence, i'm complaining about the presentation of a main evil character being uncool. Every cool part is always in a flashback, and even his eyesight was criticized by Kakashi.

Also you should not use Kakashi's fear of Itachi's MS because what we are comparing here is Orochimaru and Itachi without MS. Because the revelation seems to be that Itachi overpowered Orochimaru without the use of his MS.

For me the coolest evil character up until now is the AL. He is ordering around these S-class killers like they were his servants. He also has piercings

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Well. So theres no proof Itachi > Orochimaru now then, is there?

All this has proven is that the Sharingan is the master of genjutsu manipulation and dispelling.

A secret bloodline binding ability (possibly only discovered from that scroll in the Uchiha house since Kakashi would have used it in response to killer intent)


Thats how Itachi won the last battle. So that neither prove his speed or jutsu mastery over Orochimaru, but indeed only prove that the sharingan can avoid all sorts of mental traps.

Itachi is still a beast of a fighter but he is looking far less godly now. Sasuke much less so.

Dude all you're doing is making theories about what happened , you haven't prove anything you're just guessing which is what a lot people do even me (i don't sound cocky at all) until it's stated that way people will find it difficult to believe Itachi is less godly...he's still godly to me


ps what does IMO mean? sorry i'm a n00b and i don't know.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

Well. So theres no proof Itachi > Orochimaru now then, is there?

Just the Author stating that 2 time already, but that’s still isn't proof enough.

A secret bloodline binding ability (possibly only discovered from that scroll in the Uchiha house since Kakashi would have used it in response to killer intent)

Incorrect, Killer intent isn’t something you just can dispel or Avoid, Killer Intent is something you feel from others, is not an Illusion, is something the person perceives by their “6xt sense” and goes as information to the Brain, so this isn’t something you can avoid is just something you will feel and deepening on your Will, it would dictate how hard is going to affect you.

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Rurik

Just the Author stating that 2 time already, but that’s still isn't proof enough.

Still, it is a statement that does not rely on the result of an actual fighting. It is as valid as Itachi's statement about Jiraiya, in other words, more like an opinionated statement rather than a factualized statement, but, still that is my opinion.

[MobiuS]

The author has done a lot to overhype certain characters (especially of the Uchiha clan) but in comparison to other characters, they fail.

Remember when "the author" implied the only person who can kill Orochimaru is the 4th but hes already dead?

Apparently now any Uchiha with 3 tomoe can kill him. Drastic difference if you ask me.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Still, it is a statement that does not rely on the result of an actual fighting. It is as valid as Itachi's statement about Jiraiya.

Oh not this again! i think that statment was lost in translation. In my personal opinion Itachi was talking about the Kyubi and not Jiraiya..that's what i think anyway...besides an Uchiha wouldn't fear a pervert

[Negs]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

ps what does IMO mean? sorry i'm a n00b and i don't know.

IMO = In my opinion
IMHO = In my humble opinion

Carry on...

[Sazelyt]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Oh not this again! i think that statment was lost in translation. In my personal opinion Itachi was talking about the Kyubi and not Jiraiya..that's what i think anyway...besides an Uchiha wouldn't fear a pervert

He (and Kisame) was (were) "clearly" talking about Jiraiya.

Also, an Uchiha that is about to lose his normal eyesight should definitely carry some fears... At the end, he was relying heavily upon a cursed bloodline, and that cursed bloodline is bound to hurt him sooner or later...

[darkchild]

Originally Posted by MobiuS

The author has done a lot to overhype certain characters (especially of the Uchiha clan) but in comparison to other characters, they fail.

Remember when "the author" implied the only person who can kill Orochimaru is the 4th but hes already dead?

Apparently now any Uchiha with 3 tomoe can kill him. Drastic difference if you ask me.

I don't remember him saying that only the 4th could kill him. I thought it was Sarutobi who said something like, "If only the 4th was still alive" to himself during the Chunin Exam arc.

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by sharingard

And about Kakashi vs Oro : Kishimoto was just hyping up Oro, that's all.

Then by that logic Kishi was just "hyping" Itachi in regards to Kakashi vs Itachi.

Anyways, I expected and hoped the confrontation between Itachi and Oro to be more dramatic with jutsu and chakra flying around everywhere, very disappointing, my wet dreams are unfulfilled

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

He (and Kisame) was (were) "clearly" talking about Jiraiya.

Also, an Uchiha that is about to lose his normal eyesight should definitely carry some fears... At the end, he was relying heavily upon a cursed bloodline, and that cursed bloodline is bound to hurt him sooner or later...

well it wasn't clear to me...maybe my brain is really fantasticle and can see these things. And having used the Tsukuyomi twice, the Amaterasu and a bunch of all stuff he was weaken... even when facing Jiraiya he opted to use the Tsukuyomi on Sasuke anyways...i do believe Jiraiya is strong but not as strong as Itachi IMO --

[Mists]

Not bad Kishi, not bad...there are some plausible ideas, and the transitioning from last chapter to this, not bad at all.

My feelings haven't changed for the last two Akatsuki members that 'disappeared.' I would like it if there was a twist there.

But I still feel like neither Oro nor Sasuke can die. It's also strange to find out there is a time limit to Oro's transfer. Kabuto acted as if it happened all the time, though I suspect it's more of the 3rd that causes his soul to degrade...I don't quite get it.

Yeah it would be dumb if Oro didn't prepare to counter that jutsu Itachi did...he even mentioned 'here it goes again...' and he's laughing so I assume he found some way to get through. But that look at the end from Sasoro...

Keeps you guessing for sure!

It was also cool to see Oro finally in Akatsuki form.

They all seem pretty powerful, even Sasori did, but those last two seemed so...weak...and bad...even though Hidan owned a bunch of people. Kazuzu still died horribly, perhaps he always has one heart beating around and just has to do a transfer. Imagine that! And he digs up HIdan and later the real fight starts!

Bleh we need to know their history! It'd give the manga a whole new dimension.

I know that the souls/bodies still fight Oro after the technique, so perhaps it's Sasoro for a while. I still don't get how Oro expects to get the eyes if the bodies always revert back to his own. Does he gain their jutsus? Maybe in there will lie another twist....

Until next week when there should be a lot of complaints, or perhaps Kishi will make it good for everyone!

I do notice one thing though, Kishi seems to know what he's doing, he knows the story and where it's going and it's flowing really well in his mind now. To even get a glimpse of the chapter Monday, it seems like he's on a roll with the story.

Still though, fix the Asuma, Kazuzu and Hidan parts! Damnit! ANd perhaps a little Konohamuru...

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

For me the coolest evil character up until now is the AL. He is ordering around these S-class killers like they were his servants. He also has piercings

Concurred, but I theorize that the AL has all these S-class criminals under some uber power jutsu spell, and Oro was one of the only ones able to break free from it, perhaps Itachi too but he chooses to stay in Akatsuki to test his power against the AL. I mean I don't know any other explanation of how these mega-powerful nins would be someone's subordinate.

[Sinaura]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

well it wasn't clear to me...maybe my brain is really fantasticle and can see these things. And having used the Tsukuyomi twice, the Amaterasu and a bunch of all stuff he was weaken... even when facing Jiraiya he opted to use the Tsukuyomi on Sasuke anyways...i do believe Jiraiya is strong but not as strong as Itachi IMO --

Well Kisame was talking about "one of the three legendary sannin" and Itachi wouldn't switch to talking about Kyuubi/Naruto without any indication, so it is clear.

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

And having used the Tsukuyomi twice, the Amaterasu and a bunch of all stuff he was weaken... even when facing Jiraiya he opted to use the Tsukuyomi on Sasuke anyways...i do believe Jiraiya is strong but not as strong as Itachi IMO --

Itachi using Tsukuyomi on sasuke instead of getting rid of Jirayi just proves that Itachi grossly underestimated Jirayi and as a result was forced to use Amaterasu. As far as I'm concerned, Jirayi is baddest of the bad on the side of the good guys.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Itachi was already in some fights, and he didn't "own" the enemy:
- against Gai he chose to escape

Enlighten me, Were did Itachi fought Gai?

- against Jiraiya he chose to escape

Enlighten me, when they fought?

- receiving orders from AL, just like the other who have already died, not even the slightest hint that he is the elite of the akatsuki, better than for example Sasori/

Enlighten me, were did he fought AL?

- his clone has been defeated by Kakashi/

His clone that was at 30% power, and Was against Kakashi + Naruto, Sakura and Chiyo (even if the last two were not directly fighting, they helped Naruto get out of the genjutsu), people like to forget this on purpose.

Fact is that Itachi has only Fought twice, and in neither of those 2 Occasion he has fought with everything, so taking in comparison those two fights to determine he should not be stronger than Oro is just wrong.

This in itself is no evidence, however i'm not complaining about evidence, i'm complaining about the presentation of a main evil character being uncool. Every cool part is always in a flashback, and even his eyesight was criticized by Kakashi.

When you Talk about main evil Character, you are talking about Orochimaru or Itachi? Because if Itachi is Uncool, I want to know were all this Dye Hards Itachi fan comes from. I mean this character only has some 5 or 6 Chapters worth of Manga Exposure, and he had make it trough the top 10 Most popular characters.

I do agree on something, Itachi doesnt seem for me Main/Final Villain.

Also you should not use Kakashi's fear of Itachi's MS because what we are comparing here is Orochimaru and Itachi without MS. Because the revelation seems to be that Itachi overpowered Orochimaru without the use of his MS.

The thing is Fear can come from 2 things, Information or Lack of Information, Kakashi didn’t had any reason to fear Itachi, but he had reason enough to fear Oro, because the one that is knonw as Legendary is Oro, whereas Itachi is barely known, and less his true powers.

For me the coolest evil character up until now is the AL. He is ordering around these S-class killers like they were his servants. He also has piercings

For me AL isnt cool enough to be Main Villain either, Taking over the world just kill any little cool factor he could have. He should work with Pinki and the Brain, they got a few less complex plans to do that.

ORO for the win

Originally Posted by Sazelyt

Still, it is a statement that does not rely on the result of an actual fighting. It is as valid as Itachi's statement about Jiraiya, in other words, more like an opinionated statement rather than a factualized statement, but, still that is my opinion.

The Statement of Jiraiya was explained was it meant (Itachi Fighting Jiraya, and not Itachi +Kisame fighting Jiriaya), and then later Kisame actually Implying that Itachi is stronger that Jiraiya when He asked Itachi why they were retreating, You can Debate about that all you like, but, I wont reply.

I found funny that We don’t need No Proof At all that Naruto has Surpassed Kakashi, that’s a fact end of story, but when it comes down to A Character you (and others) dislike, You need A Signed Letter by Kishi swearing on his mother about it.

Even When First He say it once, then he say it once again, in case some people didn’t listen, and now, he is even actually showing it, LOL I just can contain my laughter over this.

You now hwo to play your cards, you need proof of an actual fight to be proven Itachi strength over Oro, something you know that it will never happen, so you are using this faulty logic to convince yourself and others about something you don’t want to accept.

And this is not even about actual fighting, because you accepted in open arms and with rejoice, Kakashi’s statement over Naruto surpassing him and even Yondaime with just Kakashi word (you even got far enough to ask for Naruto to be given the Hokage title in a near future), this is about personal likes and dislikes you have.

Originally Posted by MobiuS

The author has done a lot to overhype certain characters (especially of the Uchiha clan) but in comparison to other characters, they fail.

Remember when "the author" implied the only person who can kill Orochimaru is the 4th but hes already dead?

Remember that That wasn’t implied in that way? What Sandaime said was:

-There is no one in the Village that can fight him equally-

No one talked about Killing and that the only person in the universe capable of doing that was Yondaime.

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Oh not this again! i think that statment was lost in translation. In my personal opinion Itachi was talking about the Kyubi and not Jiraiya..that's what i think anyway...besides an Uchiha wouldn't fear a pervert

It wasn’t about Kyuby it was about Jiraiya, but the sentence could had been referring to Itachi fighting Jiraiya and not Itachi + Kisame fighting Jiraiya, if you have one ounce of Brain and no Bias, you will understand that the one that makes sense is the first choice.

Originally Posted by Sinaura

Concurred, but I theorize that the AL has all these S-class criminals under some uber power jutsu spell, and Oro was one of the only ones able to break free from it, perhaps Itachi too but he chooses to stay in Akatsuki to test his power against the AL. I mean I don't know any other explanation of how these mega-powerful nins would be someone's subordinate.

I don’t think is that trivial, to be a leader you don’t need to put your Subordinates on Hypnosis or have the strength to Kick the crap out of them.

This Criminals are criminals only in their own country, Reason why Sand decided to work with Oro, the leader only needs to give this "criminals" an offer they cant refuse, and that’s it, as for instance, Hidan showed he was quite unpleased with the leader, even talked about Cursing him. So Maybe AL is the Boss, but People as Sasori, Oro, Itachi and Hidan, have shown they don’t agree 100% with him.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Sinaura

Itachi using Tsukuyomi on sasuke instead of getting rid of Jirayi just proves that Itachi grossly underestimated Jirayi and as a result was forced to use Amaterasu. As far as I'm concerned, Jirayi is baddest of the bad on the side of the good guys.

and why would he underestimate him? if what you'all saying is true, Itachi words were towards Jiraiya and not the Kyubi why would he not save his chakra when facing Jiraiya instead of using some on Sasuke who he could have defeated so easily eh
i don't doubt Jiraiya strength but i just think he's any match for Itachi that's all

[Exigious]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

and why would he underestimate him? if what you'all saying is true, Itachi words were towards Jiraiya and not the Kyubi why would he not save his chakra when facing Jiraiya instead of using some on Sasuke who he could have defeated so easily eh
i don't doubt Jiraiya strength but i just think he's any match for Itachi that's all

Itachi could have killed Jiraiya with the sharingan.

[Sasuke_Bateman]

Originally Posted by Rurik

It wasn’t about Kyuby it was about Jiraiya, but the sentence could had been referring to Itachi fighting Jiraiya and not Itachi + Kisame fighting Jiraiya, if you have one ounce of Brain and no Bias, you will understand that the one that makes sense is the first choice

Dude Ouch OUCH you coulda just punch me in the balls or something worse but thanks for clearing that up for me even though you destroyed my manhood.

[MysticNinjaJay]

What I want to know is...how did Itachi have time to hang out with Akatsuki and play mind games with Orochimaru at the age of 11 when he should have been busy on ANBU missions and living in the village?

The time frame just seems impractical.

Btw, does anyone have a translation for the chapter. The raw is out you know.

As for people complaining about Itachi's hype, I do think Kishi has made an error in logic by making Kakashi think he had a shot at fighting Itachi when he was scared to death of Oro.

Maybe he was just intimidated by Oro's reputation. Afterall, Asuma and Kurenai thought they could beat Kisame and Itachi together.

Asuma even asked Kakashi if Itachi was showing his full power. His reputation was as a young prodigy who killed his clan shortly after becoming an ANBU captain, which makes him deadly but not Ninja God.

I always wondered how Oro was sure Itachi was stroner than him. I guess we got our answer. He is able to counter the genjutsu Oro uses for his immortality jutsu.

I wonder how well Oro would do if he tried to beat him with all of the crazy ninjutsu he used against Sandaime. He has many moves that cannot be copied by Sharingan, such as his snake summonings, Edo Tensai and weidling Kusanagi.

His defeat by Itachi does seem too simplistic considering how much of a power house he was during the Konoha invasion arc.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Sasuke_Bateman

Dude Ouch OUCH you coulda just punch me in the balls or something worse but thanks for clearing that up for me even though you destroyed my manhood.

Sorry, My intention was not to sound harsh or not polite.